What’s the old saying? Them That refuse to believe will accept no proof. Them that chose to believe, need no proof! It’s all very real if one chooses to accept it. I’m not gonna argue with you fellows who choose not to. It is a personal choice, as God expected His children to make. But look at it this way. If I’m wrong, we are nothing but resource users while we’re here, and nothing but worm food afterwards. But I’ll be remembered as a good person for a little while. The best any of us can do. But if I’m right, ….
You're going to hell because you chose the wrong Christianity?
I don't see such a distinction in that post - the denominational aspect is not conditional there. Non-believers are free to design their own reasons for rejection and are free to critique, ridicule and make fun of the choices of believers. So be it.
However, that freedom of choice and opportunity for critique affords them no superiority of view or reasoning. Decisions about going to Hell are the province of the decider, not in any way controlled by the thoughts or wishes of believers.
Is that why Evangelical Christians go on mission to Mexico and the Philippines to save the Catholics from Hell?
Folks that do those things seem to know very well why they do, and you seem not to know much in comparison. At this moment, our son in law and a group from their church up in WA (including several youths on Spring break) are in Guatemala- living out in small native villages - installing simple yet very effective metal cooking stoves for families who normally have cooked over open fires. That is their mission this week. Does that assist your understanding?
You seem to forget that I've spent some time in a Church, so when I talk of Evangelicals going on missions to save the Catholic from Hell, those are not my words, but those of the Evangelical ministry. Perhaps your son in law is on a mission the to improve the lives of fellow Christians who happen to be Catholic. Perhaps he's installing stoves as his "way in" to the village so he can save their poor dammed Catholic souls. I don't know, if it's the former, good for him, but if it's the latter, well, that has it's own implications.
Let's stay real - I haven't forgotten that stuff because I never knew it, have no idea how much time you might have spent in a church, and have no way to understand what some "Evangelicals" may have told you. I based my reply on what you stated.
You can "perhaps" as you wish, but those folks are traditional Lutherans and I know exactly why they are working and serving in Guatemala. In that you seem concerned with form, would you care to identify the "form" of Christianity you have chosen?
I don't consider Traditional Lutherans among the Modern Evangicals. IME, typically they are more about the good deeds for the sake of the deeds, vs for the sake of the conversions. A lot of Lutherans are what I call "functional Atheist". Sure, they believe (or at least claim to), attend church, say grace, and go on the occasional mission, but there's no practical difference between them and they typical Atheist, no science denying, or wacky beliefs or politics rooted in fundamentalist religious beliefs. In general, they are not the droids I'm looking for.
It is not my role to try to characterize people in different Christian denominations or emphasize what one "considers" them to be - or to try to describe what they typically believe and do. To me, those "characterizations" generally are useless and meaningless, particularly in light of the true and fundamental basis for the Christian - a personal and deep relationship with God through belief and faith. It might be interesting to know the fruits of labors such as yours.
That said, and given your description, you most obviously do not know and understand the Lutherans in my circle.
Maybe. Or perhaps we have more in common than you think. Or maybe I'm wrong and you are a bunch of fundamentalist YEC Snake Handlers, but for some reason, I doubt that's the case.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Without faith it's impossible to please God. So a lot of you here are going to have a different address in the afterlife than I will
So, when are you going to reenter your mother's womb and be born again. If you must take everything literally in the Bible, you must do that to be saved.
The solution is that Jesus was speaking figuratively, as the Bible often does.
The Bible is very detailed about Noah's story. It's definitely not presented as an allegory. Sorry your faith is found wanting 😔
Without faith it's impossible to please God. So a lot of you here are going to have a different address in the afterlife than I will
So, when are you going to reenter your mother's womb and be born again. If you must take everything literally in the Bible, you must do that to be saved.
The solution is that Jesus was speaking figuratively, as the Bible often does.
The Bible is very detailed about Noah's story. It's definitely not presented as an allegory. Sorry your faith is found wanting 😔
It also states in detail that God formed Adam from the mud. Do you suppose that's literally the case?
Without faith it's impossible to please God. So a lot of you here are going to have a different address in the afterlife than I will
So, when are you going to reenter your mother's womb and be born again. If you must take everything literally in the Bible, you must do that to be saved.
The solution is that Jesus was speaking figuratively, as the Bible often does.
The Bible is very detailed about Noah's story. It's definitely not presented as an allegory. Sorry your faith is found wanting 😔
It also states in detail that God formed Adam from the mud. Do you suppose that's literally the case?
Without faith it's impossible to please God. So a lot of you here are going to have a different address in the afterlife than I will
The afterlife eh, no reports from there. Only fear of the unknown, do you live in fear of what may come of you? Or do live every day as a humble human being without regard for some reward?
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
Without faith it's impossible to please God. So a lot of you here are going to have a different address in the afterlife than I will
The afterlife eh, no reports from there. Only fear of the unknown, do you live in fear of what may come of you? Or do live every day as a humble human being without regard for some reward?
The Bible asks "who has believed our report?" I live my life believing that report. And that's how I will stand before God
Yes, I believe. I also believe that there are many things, in the Bible as well as things in general, that are beyond our level of understanding. We are at once too quick to dismiss some things out of hand and too quick to accept "scientific" explanations for others.
As to the Ark, I grow very frustrated with those who endlessly repeat the "TWO of each species" when the Bible clearly states otherwise.
Originally Posted by 5sdad
Yes, I believe. I also believe that there are many things, in the Bible as well as things in general, that are beyond our level of understanding. We are at once too quick to dismiss some things out of hand and too quick to accept "scientific" explanations for others.
As to the Ark, I grow very frustrated with those who endlessly repeat the "TWO of each species" when the Bible clearly states otherwise.
I agree John, and perhaps I can build on this.
First of all, the Bible as the Word of God is a supernatural book, and cannot be apprehended or completely understood by human reason or experience. You don’t believe in it?..that’s your choice.
Psalm 14 says those “who do not believe in God are fools”.. you choose.
The dimensions of the ark are of a barge not a ship. It was meant to float, to save, not to sail to a location. Again, the animals God led onto the Ark were of “kinds” not species (see Genesis 6). A “kind” is a group much broader genetically than that of “species”…with a huge amount of genetic information that allowed diversification (like selective breeding) among the differing environments resulting from a worldwide flood. Perhaps the “kinds” were also the very, very young to preserve room.
The fish of course would be excluded from the ship and perhaps others — the insects.
Why did God choose The Flood for His purpose? I can’t be sure but remember “His ways are not our ways.” I believe the all of the world’s resulting geological formations are a result of the Flood; ie, the Grand Canyon, the Himalayas, etc and all of how that impacted human experience thereafter. His purpose is far reaching and far beyond first observations.
Monotheism preceded all pagan beliefs in god(s). And all cultures have a flood legend. These preceded from the oral tradition from the earliest Biblical patriarchs of a belief in Yahweh and His revelation — including the Flood — to them.
Do you really believe there were no rainbows in the sky after a rain and with the sun shinning through falling rain, until after the flood??
L.W.
Yes, there was no rain until the ark was finished, which took 50+ years.
Uhhhhh, okay. But that begs the question of how did people, including Noah, his family, and millions of people and animals around the world eat?? It takes rain to grow crops and vegetation. In 50 years, everyone and everything living would have starved to death. God wouldn't have needed to kill everyone as everyone would already have died.
L.W.
If you survey the Scripture you will find your answer in Genesis 2:5-6 5Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
The flood myth has been thoroughly debunked in so many ways that it can only believed by faith. But contradictory and impossible propositions are believed by faith all the time.
The heat generated by accelerated radioactive decay alone is enough to vaporize earth's crust. Then add in the heat released by the formation of limestone and dolomite and the friction generated by continents galloping about at race car speed. If all this happened in a year the Earth would be a ball pf plasma.
Many other branches of science disprove the flood myth. (12-part series)
One unerring mark of the love of the truth is not entertaining any proposition with greater assurance than the proofs it is built upon will warrant. John Locke, 1690
It’s a good thing that one’s salvation does NOT depend on believing literally in Noah and the Ark. And it’s a good thing that following Jesus does NOT depend on believing literally in Noah and the Ark either.
Other branches of science? Like the branch of science that that brought us the Covid vax’s? Or that from the scientists of the branch promoting human-caused climate change?
Spherical water droplets (they're spherical because of surface tension) cause different wave lengths of light to be diffracted in different directions. This has been known since about 1700.
Why do you think that God flooded the earth? There is no evidence of any world-wide flood. There is substantial evidence that none occurred.
Why didn't you pay attention in junior high school?
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
Do you really believe there were no rainbows in the sky after a rain and with the sun shinning through falling rain, until after the flood??
L.W.
Yes, there was no rain until the ark was finished, which took 50+ years.
Uhhhhh, okay. But that begs the question of how did people, including Noah, his family, and millions of people and animals around the world eat?? It takes rain to grow crops and vegetation. In 50 years, everyone and everything living would have starved to death. God wouldn't have needed to kill everyone as everyone would already have died.
L.W.
If you survey the Scripture you will find your answer in Genesis 2:5-6 5Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground.
Yet, from Adam to Noah, 100s of thousands of people found fruits, and vegetables, and grains to consume. And their herds of livestock found grazing. All without a shrub or plant ever sprouting.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Not to mention civilizations with written histories far preceding the recorded date of Noah.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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