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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1 |
My agency is looking to purchase new guns. Our current guns are 12 years old and all have at least 1000 rounds through them per year. We were notified by the original distributor that they would no longer pursue maintenance of the contract or the weapons.
With that said, our gun gurus have recommended a variant that costs nearly double of what everyone else is quoting. The justification is the company is “local veteran owned”. It’s a small distributor. Also, we would still have to source parts and service from someone else.
I’m having a hard time with this. What should the priority be? Spend an extra $500k to buy from a local veteran owned distributor, or spend less for a product that is good enough? The local guy may or may not be sustainable for the future, since it’s a small business. In the end of the day, we still have to source parts elsewhere.
My original suggestion was to retrofit what we have. However, the agency doesn’t want to use line staff or “armorers” to do this work. The priority is to keep staff on the street, not tinkering with guns. Man hours get factored into cost of retrofitting and that adds up too. Plus, the frames still have at least 12k rounds through them. I get that, sort of.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,323 Likes: 42
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,323 Likes: 42 |
How does your agency garner the funds for the guns?
If it's the American Taxpayer - local or whatever - your responsibility is to them, not the Vet distributor.
I get wanting to help and shop there first but if the cost is 2x - your agency is committing malpractice IMO. A small % might be explainable, 2x cost isn't.
Me
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1 |
How does your agency garner the funds for the guns?
If it's the American Taxpayer - local or whatever - your responsibility is to them, not the Vet distributor.
I get wanting to help and shop there first but if the cost is 2x - your agency is committing malpractice IMO. A small % might be explainable, 2x cost isn't. Our funds are from state taxes, mainly sales tax. I feel the same as you. The cost is really hard to swallow. If we “had” to spend the money, I’d rather buy cheaper guns and upgrade body armor or something. Maybe spend money on better training. Anything.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,323 Likes: 42
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,323 Likes: 42 |
Agreed - I'd be thinking "Can we get a sidearm at a better cost that does the job and leave money left over to upgrade armor? Maybe something lighter or more comfortable? A new patrol rifle in cars?" Don't blow the budget on 1 item - use the budget to upgrade as much as possible for as many as possible.
Me
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Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,347 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,347 Likes: 2 |
What pistol has a 12k round service life?
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1 |
What pistol has a 12k round service life? I believe our agency requirement is 20k rounds. I’m sure with normal care and spring replacement, the guns will last longer.
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Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,347 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,347 Likes: 2 |
What pistol has a 12k round service life? I believe our agency requirement is 20k rounds. I’m sure with normal care and spring replacement, the guns will last longer. 20K used to be the locking block(replaceable) life on the Beretta M9/92 and I think improvements have even extended that.
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1 |
What pistol has a 12k round service life? I believe our agency requirement is 20k rounds. I’m sure with normal care and spring replacement, the guns will last longer. 20K used to be the locking block(replaceable) life on the Beretta M9/92 and I think improvements have even extended that. I wouldn’t be surprised if we adopted some number that someone heard once. I’m no longer confident that our weapons procurement people know anything. I just need to get promoted two more times and I get to have a say.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,081 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,081 Likes: 1 |
What pistol has a 12k round service life? My series 70 Gold Cup has well over 35,000 rounds through it without ever having a single malfunction. It's still going strong, albeit, not as accurately as it once was.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,608 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,608 Likes: 1 |
Just get some of those time out cards to hold up in times of stress. Save a lot of money.
NRA-Benefactor TSRA-Life
"It's a terrible thing when governments send their young men to kill each other." Charles Byrne,WW2 Vet. On the day Desert Storm began.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,310
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,310 |
Is there a bidding process? Most every .gov and every corporate bean counter I've worked under make us submit bid packages, and require justification if the low bidder is to be passed over.
“You never need fear a man, no matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.” Samuel Colt.
�Common sense is genius dressed up in work clothes.� - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,595 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,595 Likes: 1 |
Palmetto State Armory would make you whatever glock 9mm clone you want and stand behind it.
There is no retreat but in submission and slavery!
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1 |
Is there a bidding process? Most every .gov and every corporate bean counter I've worked under make us submit bid packages, and require justification if the low bidder is to be passed over. There is. I contacted a .gov procurement guy yesterday afternoon to pull the info. I know our idiot governor promoted a law that gives a trump card to the agency if purchasing from local veteran or minority owned businesses.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,407 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,407 Likes: 1 |
I'm not a veteran, but I'm extremely thankful to those that are.
In my mind, being a veteran doesn't mean they get to screw over the taxpayers in a situation like this. It should be, "if all things are equal, we'll give the veteran owned business the nod, maybe"
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,230 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,230 Likes: 1 |
Can you say, " kick back". Somebody's getting 10% for the "big guy".
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,236 Likes: 37
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,236 Likes: 37 |
12k rounds on a quality pistol frame ain't crap.
Your agency should be telling your local vet owned shop to drop their price or they walk.
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,213 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,213 Likes: 3 |
Getting state vendor status and keeping competition at bay are how to get mad money.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10,050 Likes: 10
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10,050 Likes: 10 |
Sounds like the "local veteran" is good buddies with some of the department big wheels who control the purse strings. Don't make waves or you might find yourself unemployed. The good ole boy network ca-ca roaches don't like somebody turning on the lights in the middle of the night!
Ignorance can be fixed. Stupid is forever!
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 17,404 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 17,404 Likes: 29 |
Have you ever perused the Federal contract awards site?
Last month a firm was awarded a contract to supply 2,000 helmets at >$6,500 a pop.
How many front line soldiers make $6500 a month?
I didn't check the service life of the helmets, UT I recall the recommended replacement interval of a motorcycle helmet is pretty short for their price tag....
Last edited by OldmanoftheSea; 04/10/24.
-OMotS
"If memory serves fails me..." Quote: ( unnamed) "been prtty deep in the cooler todaay " Television and radio are most effective when people question little and think even less.
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,635 Likes: 1 |
Sounds like the "local veteran" is good buddies with some of the department big wheels who control the purse strings. Don't make waves or you might find yourself unemployed. The good ole boy network ca-ca roaches don't like somebody turning on the lights in the middle of the night! I am suspecting the same. The procurement docs are fishy, to say the least.
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