Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Guess I got in the red dot game ..

I tried to Red Dot on a pistol before with mixed results. wasn't the best Red Dot you could get the early Romeo zero and they kind of ended up having some issues..


well I done it again I jumped in a little deeper we'll see what these results come out...

pic upload

tell us what you really think only after say 1000 rounds,

I kind of figured that
my preliminary thought they will be quite fun on a range/match/fun gun.

the CCW type gun I'm a little bit don't know..

I recommend a lot of dry fire practice to acclimate yourself to finding the quickly. It took a good amount of that for me to become comfortable with the change over. Others might feel different but that’s my experience.

I don't have enough experience with mine to love them yet. I suspect it will take a while. I have been thinking about a Shadow Systems. I am interested in how you like it.

It took me a couple tries to really appreciate the dots but once I forced myself to stick with it and got some help, I really like them. It’s all about indexing the pistol from the draw. Once I got that down it really made me better with my irons too.

Dry fire helped a lot. Now I shoot both eyes open and focused on the targets. I shoot Glocks, a S&W revolver and a Ruger 22/45 all with dots and different grip angles and the dots just appear on target.

Put in the work and they are worth it.

well as you can see mine is just the Foundation line so it's nothing fancy. it's pretty much a Glock with a dress on I guess you could say.. the slide and all's nicer the interchangeable back straps slide on you can get Miguel's form that easily go on but also included in the fancier models.
standard cut rifling not polygons.
the rifling is deep cut looks good looks real good.
so far I haven't shot it and have to make a fair assessment.
the trigger is flat-faced but feels exactly like a Glock.
the elite and better series are supposed to have better triggers and the shoe was also aluminum on the higher end stuff where this one is just plastic.
to my understanding and the appearance of all internals are interchangeable with Glock. the optic cut on the slide as well thought out and well done with lots of options. the owner's manual is probably the best owner's manual I've ever seen come with the firearm. the back side is metal and just blacked out the front side is metal with a white dot. and they are tall enough to still use with the optic on.
really don't know what else to say tonight I'm going to shoot it and try to get the optic adjusted and sighted in..
that might give me a better idea on how accurate it is or maybe I should say how accurate I am with it cuz I'm sure that's the limiting factor.

I got the iron sights sorted out on my Tisas double-stack, then added the red dot sight, and since I had the irons pretty well sorted, I just lined up the dot with the irons, made a few elevation adjustments, and I was good to go. Having iron sights on the pistol helped me out a lot, in getting the dot sight zeroed. I think it's a great idea to have the co-witnessed sight, especially if your battery dies, or you forget to turn it on, or any similar brain hiccups.

Those who run red dots only, without backup irons, are skating on thin ice, in my book. Of course, I'm old, and distrustful of things with batteries.

If you started with iron sighted handguns, and have lived with them (as an avid shooter) for ten years or more, the chances are slim to none that you will became adequately acclimated to the red dot system absent an exclusive switchover, combined with hundreds of hours of actual range time. Then, the advantage will mainly be at distance, rather than at typical defensive shooting ranges. Then you have to worry about battery life, electronics failure, and things like fogging, dirt obstruction, etc..

My eyes are getting to the point where a red dot is almost a must for good accuracy. They look a little weird on revolvers but I get over it pretty quick when 5 round go into the size of a tennis ball at 50 yards. They even make shooting smallish targets (rock chucks) at 100yards doable. Much easier to deal with than scopes for me.


FWIW: Revolver in pic is for sale. PM me if interested in a SBH 44Mag.

"If you started with iron sighted handguns, and have lived with them (as an avid shooter) for ten years or more, the chances are slim to none that you will became adequately acclimated to the red dot system..."

TRH, be careful with those absolute statements. That may be your experience, but it certainly isn't everyone's.

I have an MR920L Elite and my son has a DR Elite and a CR Elite pair of Shadow Systems pistols. Between the three we certainly have 10k rounds through them. Zero issues. Really like the Shadow Systems pistols to the point my Glock and M&P don't see much use nowadays. A Sig XMacro Comp also helped push the others to the back of the safe.

I'm 59 years old and have been shooting handguns with irons since I was 13 and bought my first High Standard Double 9 in 22LR. I went on to centerfire autos such as the CZ PCR, Sig 228, Glocks, M&P's, 1911's and shot thousands of rounds with iron sights. Tried my first dot and bounced back and forth until I made a commitment to learn and I did. I shoot more than most in competitions and on practice days. But if you have half a brain and are willing to learn, they will improve your shooting at all ranges.

I've seen more irons fail than I have quality red dots. Dawson front sight snapped off at the base from recoil, seen several fiber optic rods go MIA. Had a Trijicon HD lose it's florescent orange color, Ameriglo sights had a bad run of shifting in the dovetail on Glocks.

Batteries get changed once a year on my birthday and I've not had one go down yet. Fog, lint, dirt and whatever else you can make up has not been a problem. If you don't shoot or put in the effort, you shouldn't assume everyone else is stuck in the same rut. Dot's are worth the effort.

I'll take a high speed, low drag, option, personally, rather than attaching all kinds of electronics to my defensive handgun in the hope of compensating for lack of skill.

LOL

You are also a cheap bastard. Red dots are the way to go.

NULL set-- the only absolute is there are no absolutes.

Been using dots since they came out 40 years ago.. First Aimpoints had the windage and elevation adjustments in the mount. Should think of them as just another option. Same thing that no single handgun is best for everything.

Iron sights fail more than people think, they just don't shoot enough to see it. (sorry)

Yep. And in all sorts of ways, from just a nuisance to critical failure, making them impossible to use in any way.

well I got around this afternoon to zeroing the optic on this Shadow systems..
I'm calling this good enough for now might slightly fine tune it if I can put better groups together later or if it checks out different at a further distance..
I did lots of research on the best place to zero a red dot on a handgun and of course there's all kinds of stuff out there but I decided to try 15 yards..
I will probably stick with that on the little sig 365 and I might experiment with going further with the shadow system gun.
and of course I screw up the last shot or it would have been better than it is..
it's very windy here today so I'll use that is the excuse... I haven't really shot paper groups with a pistol and quite some time so I don't really know how good or bad it is..
the groups with the little p365 last night weren't quite as tight as that but close with the same ammo.

this gun shoots this particular load here which is different in the first picture better than anything else I've got shoots it. looks like maybe a little bit of fine-tuning might be pretty good...

I'd love to be able to do that off hand at 15 yards. I call that pretty darned good shooting.

thanks Paul, it's nice to have a civil conversation with you..

I'm going to go outside and make sure hell ain't froze over.
😁😁

You are alright in my book brother, but let's not stop giving each other hell over bicycles.

In my opinion "dots" are still the new "thing", and a lot of people who are just getting into handguns or who don't shoot a lot, have to have one. They probably will not ever use them enough to become proficient with the dot sights. If you go to an indoor range and look around its easy to verify that this is a strong possibility within the shooting public.

OTOH I believe that they do make a good shot better, and are easy to use for those that practice with them and learn how to use them.

The common problems people have, or often just fear having with red dots are pretty much negated by buying quality and mounting so the sights co-witness with the irons.

I have a Holosun 507Kx2 on my P365XL. I really like it. When I was a younger man (mid 20’s to mid 40’s) I was deadly accurate with an open sighted handgun. I always qualified Expert. Now that I’m in my 60’s, I just can’t focus in the sights and the target at the same time. From zero to 21 feet I’m still very accurate with open sights. Once I get to 50-75 feet my accuracy suffers. That’s my main reason for the 365 with the optic. As for having to worry about the battery, changing the battery in your handgun optic is a matter of being responsible enough to keep track and change it on a regular basis. Just like you need to clean and lube your auto pistol on a regular basis. Or change you carry ammo from time to time. That’s my take on it. IDHolton, I think you will come to love your optics.

Ron

I bought a g45, dropped in a Glock performance trigger, and mounted a holosun scs. I’ve got a couple thousand rounds through it now and carry it everywhere. I absolutely love it. From 3 yards to 50.

Not really. Once you condition your brain to look for that dot, that's it. When the "balloon goes up," therefore, you will look for that dot and, not finding it, will keep looking till your conscious brain figures out something is wrong, which is a waste of vital seconds durig a life or death struggle.

What you're saying is that it's one more thing that could possibly go wrong, so it becomes one more thing regarding which you need to take measures designed to forestall its occurrence.

The Holosun 507K and 507C that I have the battery last more than a year. Just change the battery on your birthday and good to go always. If the dot fails for some reason then just use the co-witness sights.

The same guy that doesn't see the dot won't see the iron sights.

Brother, I have no bone to pick with you. You seem like a nice, intelligent man. I have carried a sidearm every day since 1985. In situations where my life depended on it. I have total faith in my ability to use the optic in a tight situation, and my ability to use the backup sight. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Take care and be safe!

Ron

Just human nature, my friend. Thanks for the kind words.

Change batteries (rifle and handgun optics) when the time changes, even though they probably don't need it.
Then.........train.
There is no downside to optics in the real world for folks who spend the time and ammo learning them.

Realistically speaking, during a “life or death struggle” no sights will be needed.

Oh it would be so nice if the fight we got was one we were ready for….

You know how I know that you have not been properly trained with a red dot equipped handgun, without you even saying so?

This statement right here: "Once you condition your brain to look for that dot".

Doing that is 100% doing it wrong. This is why people struggle, shoot them for a year or two, waste tons of ammo, then give up. Learning properly from the start would save you hundreds of dollars in ammo and countless hours of frustration.

Think of it like your computer screen and the cursor is the red dot. You don't grab your mouse and look at the cursor and follow the cursor to where you want it.

You look at your target, then you grab your mouse and move your cursor (red dot) to the target. When it is there, you click. Boom.

I have been shooting handguns with iron sights in a professional capacity for decades, and it did not take me long to make the transition to an RDO. The advantages are not deniable and they are not a fad. I can grab a handgun with iron sights or one with an RDO and feel comfortable carrying either. Today, I had an iron sighted G19 on, but tomorrow I may be carrying my G22 with RDO and I am fine with either.

The fact is that with good (proper) training from someone who knows what they are doing, it is not hard to pick up the skill set.

Yup.

Was just doing some drills yesterday with the dot occluded with masking tape. Made little to no difference.

But some folks that don’t know will continue to write volumes how bad they are lol

No need for the complexity of a red dot sight, then.

You gonna file your iron sights off too?

A red dot really allows you to use a handgun at longer distances.

I have made first round shots at 100 yards with my P226.

It wears a Romeo Pro 1 plus suppressor height sights.

Some self defense situations happen at longer ranges.

Most are very short range, but not all.

A red dot is a hell of a tool.

More than one type of tool on this thread.

They are making truck loads of money off of marketing them, that's for sure. It's likely that's the reason for their wild popularity of late, i.e., lots of money going into advertising and promotion of the latest and greatest gadget by big names in the shooting world who are well compensated for their advocacy.

It's not lost on me that you didn't respond to Mackay's post, but did this one...

Interesting how the difficulty of iron sight alignment has been replaced by finding the dot in the ghost ring.

What is funny to me is that when I draw a handgun with the red dot, the fastest way to focus on the red dot, is to focus on the front sight

a nice thing about the dot sight is no parallax, the dot does not have to be centered in the field of view of the "big ghost ring" of the sight. It can be towards or all the way to one side or top or bottom.

You're focusing on the dot? Why?

Right. The dot should be ignored.

All that may apply to you, but I shoot irons, red dots, scopes, and shotguns with and without ribs and occasionally with red dots on the receiver or rib. I do just fine with all of them without a struggle, even left-handed at times.

Last year a buddy was pulling clays for me and chose a target for me, then added “left-handed”. I was shooting a 590s Tactical with a FF3 on a rail. I changed hands, broke the target, then looked at him and said, “Take that, bitch”. All in good fun, but you don’t know what you can do until you try, and if you don’t try, you never succeed.

Don’t make assumptions about others based on your own limitations.

Actually yes.

Your proving your ignorance with every post.

If it's to be ignored, don't put it on your gun to start with.

TRH, you get an A+ for stubbornness. But you FAIL in every other category of learning.

Clearly, no one who has one is ignoring the dot. That's BS. That was my point.

You don't focus on the dot, you focus on the target.

You’re wasting your time trying to explain it to him. He’s not interested in learning anything past hearsay from 30+ years ago.

it's kind of like skeet shooting you know the the dot is there but you're focused more on target and look through the dot or past the dot. my book this helps the target stay in focus and be more Target aware. and I guess some people do this easy with the dot in the front sight, it seems an awful lot of people do..
at least that's what I seem to be learning.

Yes. Allows you to focus your eyes on the target as opposed to the front sight.

Where’s my gawd dam front porch delivery? Emale says it’s hear .

Neither ignored nor focused on. Focus is on the target. Really no different than I've done with iron sights at defensive ranges for decades.

Red dots are showing up on more LE agency guns. Texas Game Wardens just started using them.

We had PMM cut our 320s for the ACRO.