Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Think you're not a gun dealer?

Trade a gun to your buddy for a car parts, you could be a dealer.

Give someone a gun for tiling your floor, you could be a dealer.

Loose your job and sell some guns to pay your bills, you could be a dealer.

Buy a gun, don't like it, sell it within 30 days, you could be a dealer.

Sell some guns and loose money, you could be a dealer.

If the AFT says you're a dealer, you're a dealer. Under the new rule you are presumed guilty and must prove your innocence.

You're a fugging idiot. I don't believe anyone here is looking to you for any advice on current events.

and in the written laws they left a little parted toward the end of makes you think you can still do a few things but in actuality they'll probably completely shut it down.. or make it illegal without a background check.

Democrat National Socialist/Communist Regime tyranny - is like that.

... as are their Propagandists.




GR

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

This is current events.

The BATF has been active here in central Indiana, they've visited three of the guys who set up @ a weekly flea market. None of these guys have FFL's yet they're flipping guns two or three weekday markets and doing a gunshow nearly every week. Cash and carry is their policy and none of them keeps any records. The first guy was buying handguns from a local shop, filling out a 4473 for each. In his case BATF gave him a stern warning and that was enough for him, he no longer flips any guns. The second guy was building AR's from parts, often he'd have a couple 8' tables with nothing but them. He got a visit during which BATF agents found two AR's that were full auto. They siezed over 500 of his guns, took over tow years for the guns to be returned. Third guy bought a couple of Glocks from an auction, filled out 4473 on both. Sold them at the flea market and they wound up in Chicago and had been used in violent crimes there. He was visited not only by BATF agents but also Chicago police, he was threatened with a hefty fine and a five year jail term. Now is not the time to be what the BATF calls "engaging in the business" definition of which is purposely vague. Selling guns without an FFL is risky, a private sale should be just that. Between individuals known to you, both do the transaction in private and keep your mouths shut.

I disagree. AS is no idiot. His bad spelling notwithstanding, he is usually pretty on the ball. He's smart enough to know that none of the examples he cited would be illegal according to the the linked video. I do agree that giving BATFE a bunch of discretion will likely not end well for gun owners. The idea that there could be a presumption of guilt is pretty horrifying. That flies in the face of our legal tradition.

Anyone currently selling guns in this environment that doesn't own a store - nuts.

I'm not talking about ATF overreach - it's like selling your water in the desert. As Cash says "hard commodities, physically held" - I'm not selling crap that can shoot.

One offshoot of this is that some actual brick and mortar type FFL dealers at gunshows will see it as a way to increase business doing transfers - at a suddenly increased fee, and as something that will eventually eliminate competition.

There is a gun show locally this weekend and another in May after this rule takes effect. It will be interesting to see how many warning signs appear on tables - "Don't risk being a felon! All sales must go through an FFL! Let us help..."

I can think of at least one guy locally, maybe two, who would happily take advantage of this to their own benefit.

I sure hope the Supremes give their Chevron Defense ruling soon, and that they decide against agencies grossly overreaching.

Sounds like retards like you

If you say so,idiot.

yes, there are several things tied up in courts that could change a whole lot depending on the outcome..

https://orchidadvisors.com/the-atf-changes-definition-of-engaged-in-the-business/

April 15, 2024


The final version of ATF Rule 2022R-17 has been submitted to the Federal Register and will go into effect 30 days after the date of publication. The Final Rule broadens the definition of who is “engaged in the business” as a dealer in firearms and finalizes many amendments to regulatory definitions.

A person will be considered to be “engaged in the business” as a dealer in firearms, when that person:

Resells or offers for resale firearms, and also represents to potential buyers or otherwise demonstrates a willingness and ability to purchase and resell additional firearms (i.e., to be a source of additional firearms for resale)”
Repetitively purchases for the purpose of resale, or repetitively resells or offers for resale, firearms—
(i) Through straw or sham businesses, or individual straw purchasers or sellers; or (ii) That cannot lawfully be purchased, received, or possessed under Federal, State, local, or Tribal law…

Repetitively sells or offers for resale firearms
(i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or

(ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are

(A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or

(B) The same make and model, or variants thereof

As a former licensee (or responsible person acting on behalf of the former licensee), resells or offers for resale to a person . . . firearms that were in the business inventory of the former licensee at the time the license was terminated…
and

As a former licensee (or responsible person acting on behalf of the former licensee), resells or offers for resale firearms that were transferred to the licensee’s personal collection…”
The Rule finalizes the amendment to the regulatory definition of “Dealer” to clarify that firearms dealing may occur wherever, or through whatever medium, qualifying domestic or international activities are conducted.

The Rule also “finalizes an amendment to the regulatory definition of “engaged in the business” to define the terms “purchase” and “sale” as they apply to dealers to include any method of payment or medium of exchange for a firearm, including services or illicit forms of payment (e.g., controlled substances). “Resale” is defined to mean “selling a firearm, including a stolen firearm, after it was previously sold by the original manufacturer or any other person.””

Providing services is considered a medium of exchange, so the ATF has codified their “historical exclusion for auctioneers who provide only auction services on commission to assist in liquidating firearms at an “estate-type” auction.”

The ruling states that a “licensee transferring a firearm to another licensee, must do so by following the verification and recordkeeping procedures in the regulations, rather than by using a Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473.”

“The final rule recognizes that individuals who purchase firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or a legitimate hobby are permitted by the GCA to occasionally buy and sell firearms for those purposes, or occasionally resell to a licensee or to a family member for lawful purposes, without the need to obtain a license.” Without an FFL, an individual must ensure they are not “engaged in the business” and the transaction is not “to predominantly earn a profit”, which now focuses only on whether the intent of the underlying sale or disposition of the firearms is predominantly of the obtaining pecuniary gain. Individuals may continue to engage in private intrastate sales, without a license, provided the individuals are not “engaged in the business” and the transaction is otherwise compliance with the law.

What is this hell called The United States of America?

Normally, I'd say spot on.

But these commies have ignored everything the SCOTUS has said, amd there have been no repercussions. The one exemption would be they did listen to scotus on vaccine mandates.

Untied Snakes of America

Ive sold 2 guns in 50 years, guess i am a dealer.

AS is not the source; he's the messenger and the truth of the video is not affected one iota by AS's posting of the video. Don't shoot the messenger!

one of the really bad parts of this he is like when Grandpa dies and he had a sizable gun collection. and say none of the family is very interested in or Grandma needs the money or the kids need the money after Grandpa's gone they can no longer sell his collection and collect the money without going through a dealer and pay commission or take a raping on the price you get or pay an auctioneer a percentage to auction them off.

that will cost some people a lot of money... and it's total [bleep] bullshit..