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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I can't believe people complain and whine when a gun company comes out with a new cartridge! It totally baffles me. Thank goodness they give us dozens of niche choices. Let's see- the .260, the 6.5, the 5mm Rem Mag, the SAUMs, the .280/7mm Express (now trying to rise from the dead), and some others I'm forgetting- How many more duds can Big Green come up with? More like, why do dud questions like this come up. None of those cartridges are duds by any means.
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
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I've always said a shot not taken can't go in the net, well actually Gretsky said that, but I liked it enough I stole it...  Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Exactly Mark,
I also wonder if some people would be better off living in
Mother Russia.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,930
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I guess I'm lucky I snagged a mint condition used Mt. Rifle in .260, blued/walnut DBM for $500! I love the round, although it will probably end up being rebarreled with a custom job, maybe even opened up to .260 AI and a 1-8" barrel on it, plus a bedding job...now we're talking a longer range deer buster!
Selmer
Selmer "Daddy, can you sometime maybe please go shoot a water buffalo so we can have that for supper? Please? And can I come along? Does it taste like deer?" - my 3-year old daughter 
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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My opinion parallels Jeff's and especially this statement. Add to that the fact that Remington never offered the 260 in the entry level 700 ADL matte/synthetic that Wal-Mart used to sell by the trainload. Sell a lot of rifles and sell a lot of ammunition to go with it.
Had it been marketed better, been made readily available in box stores in entry level rifles, along w/ non-premium price ammo, it might have had a shot at being mainstream. Had this happened, I doubt it'd have gained rockstar status, but figure it might have earned shelf space right next to bargain 7-08 & .308 ammo. Would have also helped greatly if the shooting industry had one of their authors embrace and champion the round in the popular gun mags. Kind of like Layne Simpson & Jon Sundra did the 7-08. JMO. Not quite accurate. I have personally seen about three of the plain ol' cheapest synthetic stocked ADL's chambered in .260. Granted it was not at Wal-Mart, however. I have seen as I'm sure many have, rifles from different companys straight from the factory chambered in calibers that the manufactuer didn't "list" as available in that model or in their entire line for that matter. these were not "custom shop" guns either. I hate to see the 260 hurting, I love mine. I agree with everyone Remington killed it with piss poor marketing. Bill
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm well aware of the ADL .260s. They were a special run, either 250 or 500 made and never offered in box stores that I'm aware of. Very hard to find on the used market now, BTW and generally priced more than a plain ADL should be when they do turn up. Point I was trying to make was they (REM) never flooded the market with them, by making them widely available. Had Rem gotten behind the .260 and marketed it to the masses as the new best whitetail deer round and made it available in an economy model @ the same place Joe Blow buys diapers, dog food, toothpaste, and toilet paper, it might've had a fighting chance. 
Last edited by biglmbass; 01/18/08.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I'm well aware of the ADL .260s. They were a special run, either 250 or 500 made and never offered in box stores that I'm aware of. Very hard to find on the used market now, BTW and generally priced more than a plain ADL should be when they do turn up. Point I was trying to make was they (REM) never flooded the market with them, by making them widely available. Had Rem gotten behind the .260 and marketed it to the masses as the new best whitetail deer round and made it available in an economy model @ the same place Joe Blow buys diapers, dog food, toothpaste, and toilet paper, it might've had a fighting chance. Agreed.......
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
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The 700 ADL matte synthetic rifles chambered in 260 were made at the same time as those in 222, 6mm, and 257 Roberts, but none of the 4 were ever cataloged. They were from a limited run for Grice (and maybe other wholesalers) and were never offered at any volume outlet. Even at that, the 6mm and 257 Roberts flew off the shelf, but the 222s and 260s hung around for quite awhile.
Jeff
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Campfire Outfitter
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Could not disagree more strongly. The only thing the .260 is lacking is a good source of brass. If Lapua made it available, which I doubt due to the Lapua 6.5x47, it would make a bigger dent in LR Comps than it currently does....
But LR Comps are not the market. The market is hunters who don't reload. If Long Range rifle compotision ruled the market then the 6.5-284 would be top of the heap right now. If you say 308 or 30-06 every novice hunter will recognize it. Say anything in 7mm and an aoutomatic association to the 7mm mag is made. The true market is guys that don't know squat about guns. They know what their daddy or buddy tells them.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
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The 7mm-08 has better velocities with equal bullet weights
The 7mm-08 has lower recoil with '''''''''
I don't have a dog in this fight but how in the world could 2 rounds that are so similar and one provide both HIGHER velocities and LOWER recoil with the same bullet weight. I think I hear Isaac Newton rolling over to hear the answer  If this is true, and I would not find it that hard to believe, it would be due to lower charge weight and/or lower muzzle pressure due to the higher expansion ratio of the 7-08. - Answered it for me, Bore expansion ratio is the reason. I have read this in many many recoil tables. Same reason that the 130 30-06 kills the 130 270 in MV and also kicks less. Isaac Newton already knows that...
It isn't energy that kills. It's holes!
Dogzapper
A fine is a tax for doing wrong, a tax is a fine for doing well
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Campfire Outfitter
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- [/quote]
Answered it for me, Bore expansion ratio is the reason. I have read this in many many recoil tables. Same reason that the 130 30-06 kills the 130 270 in MV and also kicks less.
Isaac Newton already knows that... [/quote]
And the fact that the 6.5's superior ballistics don't really come into play until you get far beyond reasonable hunting distances
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
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Campfire Tracker
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From the HuntAmerica Recoil Calculator/ rifle weight=9lbs
140gr bullet/H4350
260
42gr/v=2677/recoil energy=11/ recoil velocity = 9
7-08
45gr/v=2692/ RE=11/ RV=9
H414
260
41gr/v=2656/ RE=11/ RV=8
7-08
43.5gr/ v=2634/ RE=11/ RV=9
data is from the Hodgdon website, you can increase the powder in the 7-08 and get about 150fps more velocity, but the recoil will go up slightly and the increase in velocity will not be noticed by the deer, and the 260 will catch up do to better BC (yes, it will take a "long" distance). Point is, we are picking nits, and can argue til the cows come home. The cartridge capacity is the same and the difference in bullet diameter is not significant (20/1000").
You will never be able to tell a difference in the field which cartridge you are using. But to say that one has higer velocity AND less recoil, and to declare that makes a difference???
Using the same logic. Would the 308 provide higher velocity and lower recoil than the 7-08? And the poorer BC's of the 30cal bullets are insignificant within normal hunting ranges.
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I looked on wally world's website a few months ago 4 poops and laughs. What did I find you ask?
I found 260s in ADL version. I believe the price was $620! Yep, $620! No wonder the "cheapies" don't sell.
If they were $385-$420 I would definitely buy one...Maybe I should check again.
Talking to you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
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Campfire Regular
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I printed this off the Chuckhawks website a couple years ago. I am sure that some computer program was used
Both were from 7.5lb guns
cartridge-----Bullet-WT----MV----Rec-E-----Rec-V
260------------120--------2860-----13------10.6
7mm-08---------120--------3000-----12.1----10.2
260------------140--------2700-----14.9----11.3
7mm-08---------140--------2860-----13.5----10.8
I know that this is just one table but the only printed one I had at my disposal.
I have noticed that most recoil calculators don't take bore dia in to account and it is a major factor in recoil.
I know that no one will ever be able to tell the differece in the recoil between the two or even field performance for that matter....
It isn't energy that kills. It's holes!
Dogzapper
A fine is a tax for doing wrong, a tax is a fine for doing well
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Just for fun I ran the ballistis on biggameinfo.com on these 2 cartridges both using the 120BT. I used the max MV load for each in the latest Nosler Manual.
120BT 250 Zero 260bc=.458 708bc=.417
260------3049
7mm-08---3262
Cart.-----100----200----300---400---500
260.........2.4.....2.0....-3.4...-14.5...-32.5
7-08........2.0.....1.8....-3.0...-12.9...-29.1
About as far or farther as I would be shooting either at game.
I really do like the 260 I just get tired of hearing how it superior to the 7mm-08 because of the better BC and the lower recoil.
Like I said in the previous post for hunting game like deer there really is no difference in the 2. More thought should go into a gun that fits you and you can shoot well.
It isn't energy that kills. It's holes!
Dogzapper
A fine is a tax for doing wrong, a tax is a fine for doing well
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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That is something that I'd have to see to believe, so if you find a link, please let me know.
When Grice had the 700 ADL matte synthetics in 260 the wholesale price to small dealers was around $370. The high volume outlets, like Wal-Mart and BPS, must have been able to buy 700 ADL matte synthetics for under $300, since the last 7 700 ADL matte synthetics that I have bought cost from $300 to $325 retail from both places. That said, I have never seen a 700 ADL matte synthetic at a high volume outlet chambered for any limited volume cartridge, except for a few 204s at BPS.
Jeff
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The 700 ADL matte synthetic rifles chambered in 260 were made at the same time as those in 222, 6mm, and 257 Roberts, but none of the 4 were ever cataloged. They were from a limited run for Grice (and maybe other wholesalers) and were never offered at any volume outlet. Even at that, the 6mm and 257 Roberts flew off the shelf, but the 222s and 260s hung around for quite awhile.
Jeff I know where three of those exact rifles sit on shelves as we speak. Could be all four chamberings, the 257 Bob may still be there but I wasn't looking for it last time I was in there. The 222 sits in another shop down the street. The other shop had all three other chamberings (222, 6mm, and 260). All were under $600. But I personally wouldn't pay over $400 for any ADL synthetic, mainly because I already own a 6mm and 260 but also because you can buy ADL synthetics at Wally Fart for $250 with the Rem $50 rebate right now. The 222 does tempt me though as I've always felt the 222 had way more "cool" factor than the .223. That is obviously personal opinion, I know. Bill
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No 700s anymore. They had them in ADL and Ti.
What's left is the M7 youth for $610.62
I've got my eye on a Weatherby varmint in 223 under $500.
Talking to you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
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