Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Surviving a cold wet night

Ditto. E

I'm talking a worst-case scenario--soaked to the bone, no fire, no shelter. If I'm going to be wet and stay wet, I want to be wearing wool.

Anyone use one of these emergency bivys? Emergency Bivys

I keep one of the cheap foil space sleeping bags in my pack, never used it. I have used a regular space blanket, noisy and reminded me of the tin man of Oz!

The Ptarmigan Bivy weighs only 6oz, might be a good idea to stuff one of these in a daypack for emergency use. A pard uses one under a tarp shelter as part of his sleep/shelter system and says it works well with his 30deg WM down bag.

MtnHtr

That emergency bivy looks rather like the WM 'Hotsac.'

I've always followed the idea of staying dry from the outer storm. I don't let that get me wet by much.
What's always been a problem is getting too wet from the inner storm. That's what has always chilled me. Even if I stop and put on more clothing. Without taking off everything wet, being wet, especially at the base layer, I would chill.
With the coming of Patagonia's Capliene, used in conjuction with pit zip outer shells, and/or fast drying insulation layers, I've always stayed dry enough before I'd chill using them. I've used wool for many years. Still do for some uses. But, even with super fast drying insulation layers and excellent venting shells, wool base layers still chills me where my Capliene base layers don't. I've used this stuff in heavy rain, working hard, and had it dry amazingly fast just from my body heat. Wool won't do that. I've used their super fast drying Regulator Fleece and found it much better as an insulating layer as well. E

Which is why I picked up four of Patagonia's Active Boxer briefs during the sale:

Hunting Underwear

I had some cheaper polypro stuff that I bought from Sierra Trading Post a few years back, but it started hitting the skids (pun there ), and on a recent hunt in the Sonoran desert, I wore some regular cotton underwear.

Welp, even in the desert, walking for a few miles I broke a sweat, and when the only cotton garment you're wearing is underwear, you quickly realize the difference the Capilene and good synthetics is making everywhere else on your body.

Even in mild weather, my nether regions got noticeably cold(er) as the cotton stayed damp and everything else dried. A light late afternoon breeze picked up, and there you go.

So now I'm back to full synthetic/wicking/fast-drying stuff, mostly Patagonia, as a first layer, from toes to neck.

Try the undies.

I'm thinking this might be a great piece of emergency gear for spending a non campfire night out away from camp due to events: Kifaru Woobie

I talk to the designer of this poncho liner tonight and he said they are selling like hotcakes. It's fairly light and compressible, and could add therms to an existing sleeping bag/system. The Climashield Combat insulation needs no quilting due it's continuous filaments. Stuffed in one's daypack, a woobie might be a lifesaver against hypothermia.

MtnHtr

Pitzips on a shell garment are meant to aid in diffusing heat and allowing cooler air to reach the torso, now, HOW can these act to assist with RETAINING body heat, one wonders?

Well, guess what, they DON'T as those of us who actually have some wilderness experience know very well. When was the last time anyone saw an Arctic parka with pitzips OR a commercial fisherman using them in his raingear?

My latest shell doesn't have them, thank gawd and it stays DRY as a bone in a driving BC coastal rainstorm, where my older Gore-Tex parkas with pitzips would allow such rain to get inside through them and make me wet. Fortunately, wearing merino wool kept me relatively warm, something quite crucial where cold and wet are a regular part of life.

As to amounts of rain, the BC coast has the highest average in North America, only a small area in SE Alaska is equal and I have found pitzips to be largely a waste of weight plus they interfere with pack straps.

For wet, cold, give me an eVent shell, for dry windly cold, I prefer a Ventile parka, although they are now very hard to find.

Hey Kute,

You ever wear a Balaclava? I have a fleece balaclava that really helps seal in the heat when stationary. If you're really brave, try sleeping with one inside a mummy bag. You'll be roasting in no time!

MtnHtr

let's add one more factor....and a 3 day hike to the truck.....

I used to feel the same way and I wore wool for many years hunting in Montana. The problem with wool is it is very heavy when wet and takes a long time to dry. I do however sometimes wear poly or acrylic wool blend, but less than half wool in the blend, drys much faster. With synthetic briefs, base layer, and fleece insulating layers you can still stay warm when wet. And, with good raingear on you can actually dry yourself from the inside out. Your body heat will push moisture through to the outside layers of fleece under your raingear. Wool has it's place but if I'm in the high country above treeline in a storm and 2 or 3 days hike from my rig I want synthetics.

I like pitzips.

If it's pouring, I zip them closed.

But if it's not, they help me stay dry when I'm on the move. I sweat too much to contemplate a waterprrof/windproof shell without pits.

But I don't live in BC.

this topic is great!

I'm trying to get where I can take the older son (16years almost) for a three day/two night outing with minimum gear. I like the "Woobie." Gonna ask the boys who's used them next time at reserves.

I really like the poncho/fly tent idea.

I prefer pitzips myself , this NF goretex shell has them and i dont get any leakage , this is what u call wetted out.By the way this bou was in full velvet before i started packing him off the mtns in the background .

E,

What kind of wool have you used?

John

I have referred to the skin-chilling effect of synthetic base layers here on a number of occasions; this occurs because of it's rapid wicking which tends to produce a cooling by evaporation, making skin feel colder.

Now, it seems that Eremicus finds this true of wool, which is not my experience and I have never heard this from anyone using it. Funny that he has not mentioned this prior to now, must not be mentioned on the Patagucci label or promo material, I guess.

Concerning pitzips, of course they will vent body-warmed air, that is their major purpose and when excessively heated as with rdmtn's Caribou packout, they do help to cool you off, but, they will not vent all of the moisture or prevent cold water entering at the part of your body most susceptible to heat loss due to a lack of fat-muscle insulation, most heads excepted, of course.

Merino wool, not just any wool or blend, will work with eVent shells better in severe cold and in extreme wet, as well. I own and use both and have for years, the pitzips simply are extra weight and bulk and are rather inefficent technology compared with merino/eVent.

Synthetics work OK in moderate conditions, but, spending a week or more in the same base layer will soon teach you the overall superiority of virgin merino, especially Icebreaker. With this, I now do not have to carry a spare undershirt and only one spare gonch plus a pair of spare socks...a weight saving important to a 60+ backpacker.

What kinds of wool ? Penelton shirts, Woolrich shirts, cape shouldered shirts, and pants, Filson pants, Cabela's pants ( whipcord and 24 oz.) and lately Patagonia's Merino Wool base layer. I've also used wool union suits of brand(s) I can't remember years ago. E

I haven't mentioned the differences between the very best grades of Meriono Wool base layer, what you always recommmend, and Patagonia's Capliene because I've just started using it in the last year.
The so called "skin chilling" effect of synthetic base layers is something that has been very short lived and never has chilled me simply because I open or close my pit zips as the need arises. I've even gone as far as getting myself good and wet while doing things like snowshoeing just to see if it would be a problem. Even when I don't peel my insulation layers and get good and wet, the stuff has always dried out faster than I can chill. Using the Merino Wool base layer under the same conditions, w/o even pushing it, I get wet and stay wet. Can't sit and glass for long, for instance, even with all my extra clothing on like I can with the Capliene base layer.
I might add that this only applys to Patagonia's Capliene vs. their Merino Wool base layer clothing. It only applys to their Regulator insulation layers as well. Other types of fleece insulation doesn't dry nearly as well. If the insulation layer doesn't dry out, the base layer, even Capliene, doesn't dry out as well. I've used Capliene with wool insulation layers. It, the Capliene, doesn't work as efficently there either if the wool gets wet to any degree. It all has to work together if you want to see the best results. E

Kutenay, you're the first I've heard say this. I came to the same conclusion from use, yet when I said so, some of my backprack friends clad in name brand synthetics looked at me like I was speaking heresy. Moving water rapidly away from skin lowers the surface temp of the skin: that's simple physics. It is also the biology of sweat glands. I still wear them for most of my hunting, but I'm seldom in extremes.

I think Rick Bin has it right as to our differences in preferences: he's not in coastal BC, nor is redmtn. I owned one pit zip mtn parka and have avoided that feature since. On a hike in the north Cascades of WA in early Fall, fairly dry climate, it was a nice feature however.

My rule of thumb for any sewn or stitched item for use in long term, unrelieved wet is the fewer opening the better, and the fewer seams and stitch holes etc. the better.

FWIW, musing through this thread has given me a tentative stab at another rule of thumb: If an area will grow any kind of pine tree, it won't be too hard to start nor sustain a fire.

I'm not yet sure whether that is true, but it is close. Maybe I just don't remember but I don't recall pines growing in the truly sopping wet areas that never dry out, like Ocean Falls, B.C.

This is a great forum and a great thread. I even bought some gear because of it!

Added a few minutes later: Looks like E and I crossed posts and I was typing as you posted.

One other thing I've noticed is how wet the outside surface gets on any porous outer garment when I wear a synthetic like Capilene as a base layer. That must partly be a factor of humidity because in drier air it would evaporate fast enough not to notice I would think. Sure wish I was out using the stuff instead of here typing today.

I did live in Ocean Falls and your right there are no pine trees there , Helly Hansen is the only suitable rain wear for that country.

Thanks, E. Was curious if you'd used the newer types of very thin wools such as Smartwool (the only one I've tried) or Icebreaker. I suppose the Patagonia is similar but haven't seen or tried it.

Personally, I've mainly used synthetic under layers with wool outer layers, and lately have wondered if that isn't backwards. Might it be better to to have something that's always warm closer to the skin, under a quick-drying synthetic outer layer?

I'll second Kutenay on the odor properties of even good synthetics. I used a Capilene shirt (among others) for quick-wash travel clothes in Africa and found it could get pretty ripe. Worse yet, I once wore an Under Armour Loose Gear T to work out in the D.C. summer heat, and forgot to take it out of my gym bag for a few days after that. It was nice and dry, but I probably should have been required to register it as a bacteriological weapon!