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This is the one I'm looking at:

http://www.mchalepacks.com/packs/detail/CMSARC.htm

Granted, the price is steep; wicked steep. Nonetheless, in combing that website, and comparing it to what I know is out there, it's a damn finely organized pack for a panel-loader, no?

I keep looking at it, and I admit an intense desire to own a truly useable panel loading pack that rates near or around 5000 cu in.

Are there any McHale users on this board who can comment on their feelings regarding overall value?

I own a Mchale pack, I am pleased w/ the overall value. The pack is made in U.S. Built w/ superior materials. The harness and hip belt have no equal from any other pack maker and I don't see it happening any time soon. The pack is actually custom fit by taking measurements, photos, demo packs and corrisponding w/ Dan. Dan does his own QC. If you look on his website he is constantly working to upgrade and better his packs (look in his letter section). As far as saying the price is steep when you look at what you goes into this pack and you can select material used and what features it has, it's really a wash. It'll be more comfortable than a Mystery Ranch, and Kifaru especially loaded and it'll haul the same loads as Barneys. You'll like it if you get one. One thing nobody ever mentions is the the handles on the waste belt, I thought they were cheesy at first but really liked them after I started using them. It's not easy to find alot of info and reviews about these packs but they are all that their cracked up to be.

Have never owned one, and couldn't afford it presently. After studying their website several times, I'd think that they are a ; you get what you pay for arrangement. Yeah, a high price. But, that thing has the finest material and is made to last far longer than my NF or Osprey brands, or others.

Looks like a place where quality eclipses even the asking price.

Very high end materials, esp the fabrics

Thanks for chipping in guys. Ernie, I wasn't criticizing the cost, per se. Expense vs value, and I would not critique the value. But, flat out, it's a chunk of cash...and I'm very happy to hear from guys who have already taken the plunge.

The panel loader (I'm convinced) is the absolute ideal configuration for the type of hiking, camping, hunting, fishing, and light climbing that I do. It seems to me that the deal-killer for most guys with regard to the panel loader is zipper failure, which seems to be mitigated by waorkmanship. But, since demand is low, design doesn't get a ton of attention overall.

I still wouldn't give up my 70liter Crescent, but have wanted to land a 5500ish size pack to back it up.

I say go for it. I picked up a used double bayonet version--about 7500 ci in codura; its close to the critical mass middle big but cordura material. I'm liking it so much I sold my Kifaru EMR. Besides lower weight, it fits like no pack I've had on before--tight to the back and fantastic support off the hips. Having said that, I haven't packed up the trail yet, but I'm confident I will like it. Had I not found this used pack, I'd be buying a new one. Still might in the future to get the new Dyneema material. Get one and don't look back.

Can't see anything wrong with one if they are custom built to your body type. I'd go for it if I wanted one.

Believer, you're getting me envious with that McHale pack and Dory raft and all. Sounds like you appreciate nice hardware. Dont' forget to let me know how it all works out for you.

Here's my take on the McHale packs... NO I haven't used one so it's just my opinion having looked them over. That opinion, however, comes from having used internals of over a dozen makes starting in 1970's so, while it's just one man's opinion, it doesn't come out of thin air.

**WARNING** take a big chill pill before reading my comments.

There, is that enough pre-qualification?

More will follow at the end (grin).

The packs strike me as essentially no different suspension and harness-wise to the Lowe's we were using in the 1970's. The shoulder straps and belt have little articulation and because the packs are built in a small shop, McHale doesn't have access to the foam laminating equipment (expensive!) that makes for a comfortable (thremomolded) hip belt and shoulder straps. The packs seemingly try to make up for this by using two straps on the hipbelt to "curve" the belt over the illiac crest. They also look mighty thin padding-wise.

Sorry, but I think the advances Dana (and others) made with suspension's in the late 80's early 90's and the thremomolded belts and straps that came along then left McHale packs behind in "almost" every way.

Just because something is high priced and "custom made" doesn't mean it's better... in this case I believe it isn't.

I will grant the packs are wonderfully simple and, because of that, are nicely light. They're also absolutely bullets! I truly wish a Co. like Arc'teryx would build a simple Cordura sack with dual daisy chains on their Bora Suspension... now THAT would be something. Ditto Osprey on the Crescent suspension.

So, in the end, I look at McHale's as alpine packs, not backpacking packs.

Anyway, final qualification: if someone is willing to spring for a McHale for me I'll gladly eat my words if I'm wrong. But I doubt it.

But I'm more than willing to be wrong (grin)...

Well Brad,

You should know that I welcome your take on pack suspensions about as much as I welcome water after a night of drinking!

I also suspect that many of your comments are dead on. It only takes a few minutes of looking at the packs on his site to get a sort of "throwback" feel. They are simple, a bit outdated, etc.

Were this a top-loader issue, I'd likely get a Crescent 80 or 110 and roll on.

But, this is an issue of panel loaders, first and foremost, for me. I've bitched and moaned for roughly 3 years about getting one truly worth a damn; to no avail.

This one has aspects that catch my eye, and come as close as any I've seen thus far.

I also believe you are DEAD on about the hipbelt actually requiring 2 straps to hug the illiac crest the way modern molded belts can with 1. My girlfriend has a degree in biometric something blah-blah, and teaches yoga. We discussed this, and she thought much the same.

If it were a dead-heat run between this and a top-loader MR, Osprey, etc, I'd likely not even be looking. Well, actually I "wouldn't" be looking; I'd be ordering another Crescent from Moosejaw.

It's the panel loader that catches me, and the fact that through (albeit archaic means), this designer stands a very good chance of getting to fit one way or another. The Kifaru packs are fantastic; I've owned a bunch. I just couldn't quite get them to feel like they were "a part of my body". I'll decline advice on this, as I've logged a ton of hours messing with the fit, and hiking with them. They just don't hit me the right way, and that's all me and not Kifaru. The Ospreys do; right out of the box. The MR's are really good, though I have grown weary of that enormous hipbelt, frankly. It has become a deal-killer, in fact.

All being equal, I'm not in the delusion that I would be buying a revolutionary item. Rather, I would be buying an item I can't find anywhere else, that "should" get the job done via custom building; despite a cost that cold be beat in many other regards. Though, the built-like-bullets aspect is refreshing, and reassuring, too.

If someone can hack up a panel loader that I likely didn't check out yet, I'm all ears; but I've about had it with top loaders for a handful of the hikes that I do, and I need the organizational ability at 5k cubes.

Chawn, totally understand your desire for a panel loader. Panels were really popular in the late 70's but fizzled out through the 80's. I got a Synergy Works internal in 1978 that was a panel loader and had a Jansport D3 before that which was also a panel loader. Dana made a couple of quazi-panel loaders in the 90's (they had an A-Frame sort of shape) that were nice.

Frankly, I'd take a long, hard look at Granite Gear's Stratus Access FZ5500... it's a nice compromise between a top-loader and panel loader that has, as I recall, twin zippers under the front compression flaps that open the entire pack up. It has a very nice suspension and is made from Cordura. I'd own one in a heartbeat and have actually been considering buying one.

http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/standard/stratus_access_5500/index.html#

The Stratus Latitude is GG's take on a pure-bred panel loader... ED T and I have corresponded more than a bit about this pack and he absolutely loves his... this pack, despite its funky appearance, is definitely functional:

http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/light/stratus_latitude/index.html

As an added bonus, besides being offered in red color, the Stratus Latitude comes in babyshit brown... that's not something you see everyday!

Something to mull-over anyway...

I am the guy who, I think first mentioned the McHale Critical Mass Dome pack here some time back and I have had dealings with Dan. He is a credit to the U.S.A., a gentleman of the first rank in respect of honesty and EVERYONE I have EVER spoken with who has actually owned and used one of his packs RAVES about it, with NO exceptions.

Design factors are important, however, certain "old-school" designs CAN and WILL perform superbly IF custom made and Van Gorkum or Merrell handmade boots are one example; I feel that McHale packs are another. HOWEVER, it is NOT necessary to spend this kind of money to find either superb fit and/or high quality construction; the advantage may well be only 10% and this is of value to some and not others, depending on individual needs.

The panel/top loader issue is personal preference, I have both, have had others and prefer the t/l for general backpacking with my panel loader used for light hunting. I no longer carry my kit in a backpack when traveling as my wife, who is a respectable professional in both the medical and ajudicative fields dislikes me looking like I just stepped out of 1972. I am now almost respectable myself, with a regular monthly haircut and never "flip the bird" at "the man"; so, a panel loader is less useful for me than in those longdead days.......

Anyway, I find that the best packs that "I" have ever used, without question, are the Mystery Ranch "G" series and NICE combo and the latter fits me as though mighty Dana himself fitted the belt around my rugged torso; so, I doubt that Dan's waistbelt, as he himself told me, would fit much, if any, better. The comfort factor in a backpack is an individual thing and so I tend to disagree with Ernie on this although I have no doubt that his Mchale is superior for him as I find my three and soon to be four MR packs.

Like Chawn, I cannot get the fit I like with a Kifaru pack and yes, I HAVE them and KNOW how to fit packs, I have made my living at it quite successfully. While I consider Patrick's pack designs to be brilliant, that type of waistbelt simply is not suited to me, whereas the Mystery Ranch design works wonders on my ancient bod. I am selling my Kifaru packs for that reason and going with exclusively MR.

Overall, I think that Chawn, with his build and intended activity WILL be totally pleased with a McHale pack made just for him and Dan is a real class act to deal with. The finest gear costs big bux, but, the results are worth it as my Van Gorkum boots continue to show me; I actually ordered a spare pair at $1685.00 CDN, after a few months of using my current ones and I am NOT wealthy, so, that speaks to how I feel about these. Buy the pack you REALLY want, compromises usually leave you disappointed, just like "lite" beer!

This pack wouldn't work for me. How would you carry meat or odd shapped stuff? I like to be able to tie stuff on in etc. Pretty difficult with a sleek pannel loader. I am sure everything is very high quality and the 4-5 lb weight sounds great vs the 8 lb MR but those packs just don't seem very hunter friendly.

LC

Again, I think there's a propensity to "rave" about any piece of gear that's custom built and expensive. Yes, I think human ego enters into it (gasp).

The reason small custom makers build "old school" designs is because that's all their sewing/building equipment/machinery and techniques will allow. It's really pretty obvious that a small shop can't begin to compete with the machinery of a big mfg.

It's sort of like good feeding in a rifle... if all you've ever shot is an M700 how in the world can you really know what truly superb feeding is? Packs are no different.

Dana pretty well nailed suspensions with the Arcflex back when... for me, the most comfortable packs since then have all been variation's on that theme.

If a guy wants to go retro, do a McHale and truck around in heavy, Goodyear welt waffle stompers I'm all for him. I remain convinced, however, there are better options...

I can't tell how the GG Latitude really works. I'm going to have to find more pictures of it for comparison. I'm not after a custom pack, per se; just a p/l that fits as ggod as my crescent.

Chawn,

My GG Stratus Latitude fits me better than any pack I have used and I have used a bunch. I wish they would do the panel loader in their big (7000 ci) pack as I am not as pleased with my Osprey Crescent.

Ed T

I think that Lefty does have a valid point and pack fit AND intended usage BOTH enter into a decision of which is best for a given person.

The way to deal with YOUR individual needs, IMO, is to simply test various packs, boots, tents or whatever and then consider your actual intended use when deciding what is best for you. As EdT, who is an experienced and honest commentator on gear is pointing out, HIS GGSL works for HIM better than anything else; since he works with Kifaru and is a frequent contributor to their forum and has actually owned and used Kifaru packs, that is a VERY strong endorsement to me of the principle of using what fits/works best for you.

A panel loader is not as versatile in HUNTING use as the Kifaru Longhunter or Mystery Ranch NICE rigs, however, this was not the design intention of Mchale as his packs are not really meant for hunting and these others were designed for more general usage. I prefer the generalist approach as I can do more with this type of pack and I do like to strip mine down and use them to pack heavy sandbags to try to keep in shape.

It's kinda like fighting forest fire for months on end in the B.C. mountains, or walking "boomsticks" in the freezing "chuck" on the northern B.C. coast. You CAN get by for a while with cheap boots, but, experience at this teaches you that heavy, leather "old school" Vibergs STILL work best, which is why you see the guys doing these jobs still wearing them.

I like to wear light Raichles, La Sportivas and other fabric/leather hikers and do 7/52, but, I don't waste time wearing these in conditions like the 200" cm. of cold rain we just had here over the past weekend as they don't stay dry, again, all BS aside, real quality works in equipment as in people.

I have a question for Ed T and Brad.

What kind of body types do you have? Which body types work best with GG packs? How tough are the GG materials for wear and tear in the bushes?

I have an old Colorado Osprey Vertigo panel loader and love the little guy. Great for one to three days.

elkcreek,
I am 5'11", 180 with a 21" torso. My upper back is very forward flexed, low back very flat and I have no hips or butt to speak of. Thos reasons make me difficult to fit. Many lg sized packs have the sturnum strap hitting me at the neck because of my torso length.

The GG packs seem to fit most quite well and their materials are as durable as any.

Ed T

Thanks.

So far Osprey and MR fit me the best. 6' 260 lb, large back and large round linebacker behind. I'll give GG a try against the Osprey and MR in the fit dept. The radical shaped back/butt make pack fit more difficult than that of a normal shaped person. I'll give one a weight/fit demo.

Brad, It kind of takes the hot wind out of your argument when practically all of my customers have already owned and used all of the brand name packs mentioned here and that are known of elsewhere. One thing is for sure, when people aren't happy, they keep shopping. People rarely come to me first. It's sad to think people would listen to a shill like you instead of their heart. I am used to shills like you that plague the net though.

By the way, what equipment is it that you fantasize I don't have that does not let me compete with the super name brands? There is nothing I lack in equipment. It is usually the other way around, with other packs having to be made to the limitations of overseas contractors. There is nothing old-school about my harness either. My Patented Bypass Harness is more advanced than anything on the US market or world markets. It is only one item in a sizeable list that makes a great pack. http://www.mchalepacks.com/sarc/04.htm

Rather than helping people in this forum, Brad, you seem to be more than happy to mislead and misdirect them. I don't expect you to tell anyone about my packs or to push them, but maybe if you really don't know what you are talking about, you should just keep your mouth shut. It's amazing what you are willing to say when you are actually so very ignorant.