Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Anyone use Berger match grade VLD's for hunting???

Better than shooting phone books or some other type "media"...

You know this is all fine and dandy, until a real-world experience occurs where conditions are less than perfect.

So you use your bergers, because you tested them on a few coyotes....You take them out deer hunting....250 meters out there's the buck of a lifetime, a mature adult boomer deer. You snuggle in, touch one off as he bounces forward because he spooked at a coyote....Now you've slipped one into his paunch, and he's running away hard quartering.


So you what? Rely on your coyote bullet to kill him with a hard raking shot through the hip?



I don't have to jump off a bridge at low water to know that I'm not going to like the results....Even though someone else jumped from the same bridge at high water and had good results....

I bet you dollars to donuts that a Berger in the paunch will kill a lot quicker than a TSX. And, it's not a coyote bullet... it's a deer bullet all the way.

If you shot say 100 coyotes with a particular bullet that had also killed say... two dozen big game animals, you'd probably have a pretty good idea of what to expect, right? You should also be able to draw a pretty good comparison to another bullet based on the way it performs in the same media... right? That's what I'm saying. There's a lot of guys both on this board and afield that have shot tons more big game than I have... but I don't know anyone, and have met very few, who've shot more coyotes than I have. I know what a good 'big game' bullet does to dogs... and I know what 'match' bullets do to dogs... the Berger is definately a lot closer to the former than the latter.

Well maybe if you had introduced yourself as Randy Anderson, we could have save ourselves this discussion......

Dunno about that. I've shot probably 50 coyotes with X bullets out of my 264 mag, and probably another 20 or 30 this year with my 300RUM using NBT's....
I know that the 40 or so big game critters I've hammered with my 264 using X bullets did not exhibit the damage shown that coyotes did using the EXACT SAME LOAD. From this, I was able to extrapolate the damage done to coyotes from NBT's made them unsuitable to shoot into Big Game Animals in my particular applications.

Maybe if you'd introduced yourself as John Nosler I wouldn't have argued either....

Been fortunate enough to grow up and live in some great coyote country... they're far and away my favorite critter to pursue.

Just so I understand here, by shooting coyotes with a deer bullet you can predict how it will perform in a 200+ lb deer with far different anatomical and bone structure regardless of variables? Yet when I give an opinion on a bullet that was designed as a match bullet with a thin jacket, soft lead and loses 60% of it's weight in ballistic media based on my loading, shooting and hunting experience, I have no dog in that fight to give such an opinion, yet you do? And without ever shooting one?

Pretty much!

Give or take...............<grin>

Pretty much par for the course around here though...

Yep...

Thinking because a bullet perfoms in one animal it will in another is inexperience at it's finest. So anatomical differences mean nothing to you? Let me know when you shoot a deer, until then, your opinion holds no more water than mine. In the meantime, maybe you can recommend a bullet for elk or grizzly based on how they work on coyotes? Or maybe any potential African hunters?

Funny... when a company releases a new bullet they usually shoot a bunch of cull deer or whatever. Then they draw performance inferences regarding how it will work on larger critters... like Elk. A bull elk weighs 4-5 times what a Texas whitetail does... but they make assuptions based on the performance in said whitetail. It's not like you can run around and shoot 100 elk with the new 250 grain/.338 Accubond, so some educated assuptions must be made. A Muley buck weighs 4-5 times what a coyote does... but somehow that comparison doesn't work?

You're absolutely right. But those assumptions from the manufacturer mean NOTHING to me until I see some field reports. I don't know how many times some bullet or another has been proclaimed as "the next great elk bullet," and then actual field testing by hunters proves otherwise.

The first version of the speer grand slam was a great example. They called it an elk bullet without EVERY SHOOTING AN ELK with it. A few field reports came in with it blowing up on the shoulder because it was a little more fragile than they thought...

Kind of like the article by JB on the effectiveness of Bergers on big game?

Yup, that's a good example. I'm not disputing the effectiveness of Berger's on game, as I've never shot one before. I'm simply adding to the discussion about claims that manufacturers make without having done any testing.

They're pretty good about testing... but at the end of the day some 'educated assumptions' must be made. Whatever projectile you choose, I reckon confidence is paramount. How's it go... 90% of the game is half mental?

Or you can watch "Best of the West" and see animals from antelope to grizzly killed with the Berger's. Of course you would have to take what they say on face value just like anything else a person hasn't tried. But, they are showing it and JB is writing it. It might be worth trying. Or a person can stay with what he knows and still be happy.

The early Nosler BT's are another good example until they thickened the jacket after field reports rolled in.


For once I agree with you and his excellent report is basically what the article I posted the pics from found as well. Though I have concerns, I don't dispute anyones first hand knowledge or experience. What I dispute is the way you acted like your opinon held more water than mine when you've not shot anything larger than a coyote. Kinda like me saying my opinion on shooting elephants with a 7 x 57 holds more water than someone else's because I shot some deer with it.

Not at all... I probably sounded that way, no harm intended. It just bugs the crap out of me when guys shoot stuff down without ever actually shooting it. Sorry if I sounded like a dick.

I did get to see a black bear killed, via Berger, on that BOTW show, but in all fairness, it was 728yards out. Not that the guy didn't make a good shot, but he wasn't exactly up close and personal if the bullet failed, either. All I thought was, what if that bear didn't go down and they had to go looking for it in the brush? Would that dude feel just as good about said bullet at 7.28 yards??? With a head on shot at a moving bear...

All I can say is that I hope these bullets live up to their newly aquired hype. Cause if guys start driving them at bears at normal hunting ranges and the bullets fail to perform, things could get sporty.

RO