Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles What's Causing This?

I have a CZ Model 3 in 300WSM that I just had bedded and free floated by a local Gunsmith. This rifle was purchased new last Dec. I did some shooting and load development during the winter before I had it bedded. It shot pretty good, about 1 1/4+ with several loads. I figured a good bedding job would help tighten things up.

I have been trying to work up loads for this thing and it has become very frustrating. This is a typical 4 shot group at 100 yards. Notice #2 way left. I would get fliers like this almost every group. They would show up at random, sometimes #1,#2 or #3, but never #4.


I have a Nikon 4.5-14x40 Buckmaster/side focus with Leupold DD bases and rings.

So what do you think is going on here? Bad bedding job, POS rifle, Scope problems or the nut behind the trigger?

Thanks
Steve

I almost forgot. The trigger is a smooth, crisp, no creep 3lbs.

I have this happen occaisionally but the pulled bullet is not seperated quite this far from the main group and I guess I just thought it was me pulling one off the mark.........

When I have had this happen, it seems as though I did not get the rifle back on the front rest straight. Sometimes with a hard recoiling rifle, my front rest (which is not a heavy one) will shift a little bit. If I fail to notice this, it will shift a lot on the next shot and that shot is usually a wide "flyer". At this point, I notice that the rest is askew and straighten it up and the next shot is back in the group. Don't know if this is your problem or not...

One of these days I'll bite the bullet and buy a good, heavy front rest.

I wonder if you�re not having a parallax problem between you and the scope.

My front rest is a Caldwell Rock BR with a Protektor Owl Ear front bag and a Caldwell Universal Magnum rear bag. This front rest is pretty heavy and doesnt move when shooting.

Shooting in the dark here, perhaps your barrel is heating up improportionatly with various shots. I mean most rifles will shoot shot #1 off, as the barrel is cold. Then the remaining shots will usually group nicely after that. What if, and I'm just taking a guess here, the barrel harmonics are being changed as the temperature is changing? If you took the rifle out today and fired 5 rounds, and only 5 rounds for the day will shot #2 be off the same as if you repeated this tommorow?

Several gun writers have written that the short mags are a real P.I.T.A. to get to shoot well. I don't know if that is THE problem or not. Make sure nothing is touching the rifle, especially the barrel, during shooting. If the rifles action is long enough I would 1) firelap the barrel and then 2) rechamber it to a full length cartridge. Very interesting dilemna as it seems the rifle really WANTS to shoot well......

Did you have flyers befor the bedding job? You said it shot "pretty good" befor having it bedded. How is the crown? Was it damaged while being bedded? Are the action screws tight or too tight?

Frustrating. My advice: (1) have someone else shoot two or three groups to see if there is a human factor. (2) Try shooting five shots, one at a time, from a cold barrel. See if you get random flyers from a cold barrel. If so, you can probably rule out the barrel heating up and changing the harmonics. (3) Sample size. You may just need to shoot more rounds to find out what the pattern is, and thus the cause.

Not really. Looking at my notes from last winter(cold) my groups were more on the lines of 1 1/4 inch cloverleaf. However, I did record a few groups that had three under 3/4in and then one about 1 inch away from this group. Similar the the target above, but not near as far away.



I checked the crown and to me it seems fine. That doesn't mean it is as I am no expert. I will have it checked by someone more qualified than myself.



They are tight. Maybe to tight, I duno.

Are the flyers always horizontal? I they are, I would question the scope, or human error. If you are right handed, I would rule out the human part ! A botched shot is USUALLY "pulled" not pushed.

The WSM's are as accurate as any other similar cartridge.

First make sure that the mount bases are tight to the receiver and that the dual dovetails tighten back up. As long as the scope is out of the rings put a different proven scope on it.

Now find a tool that fits the guard screws and check that the front one is tight. If the rear one was loose tighten it some. Bring the tool with you to the range.

Bore sight the rifle now if you can at home. If not do it at the range. Bring other guns to shoot so this rifle can cool.

Once its on the paper start with two shot groups. If they stay together then fire a three shot group.

If the groups are not good change the tension with the rear guard screw. If medium and tight do not work then shoot the rifle with the rear screw almost loose, just finger tight. If it responds to this then the bedding is not right.

From the pattern I see and read of your groups I don't think the crown is that bad.

Of course you must have different loads including factory?

Once it gets grouping keep track that it stays sighted in.

Keep in touch on this here.

No, not all of them. I just went trough my notes from yesterday and the fliers were all over the place. Mostly 2 inches high at 10 o'clock and 2+ inches low at 5 o'clock from the main group. There were a few that were far left and one that was far right. I also had two that were tight at sub MOA. But these were not repeatable.

IIRC Ausie gunwriter wrote turn the seating stem in 1/4 turn at a time to bring the group together. My son had the problem with his 1917 Enfield and turned the stem in 1/2 turn and fixed the problem.

That is quite a reach don't you think? Call Nosler and ask them about short mag accuracy.

If my model 3 would have shot that good I would not have complained. Mine shot 4" to 6" groups. CZ told me if it functions it is yours> They do not care if the accuracy is garbage. The fix for mine was a new barrel and a trued action bedded and a trigger job now it shoots like it should.

CZ and Montana rifle company should be ashamed of themselves for the model 3 debacle!

8mmwapiti

Several gun writers have written that the short mags are a real P.I.T.A. to get to shoot well.

Check to,see if the front action screw is maybe touching in the hole. Maybe when bedding it is now a little tight in the hole. I chased that ghost for about 300 rounds. You might have it open up the hole. If it shot better before it was bedded,it has to be the bedding, not all the other things mentioned

Your barreled action is moving in the wood or you have a bind in the action...Glass bedding is not a cure all and if done improperly isn't any better than an improperly bedded rifle...

The rifle demonstrates an ability to shoot, just got to locate the cause for the flyers..