|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792 |
This? or this? Casemaster seems more versatile, but Sinclair concentricity guage seems like a higher quality tool. Your thoughts? John
Last edited by Hondo64d; 10/03/08.
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,859 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,859 Likes: 4 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,116
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,116 |
Hondo, Never used the RCBS Casemaster and I am sure it's a fine tool but the Sinclair on my loading bench works real well and is easy to use.
Dave
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749 |
Both are good tools. The Sinclair is smoother and easier to use. The RCBS is a little less expensive and is more versatile, it will measure neck and wall thickness etc.. The Neco is more versatile yet but more difficult to setup and use. The Bersin is the best because it will also straighten bullets but it's the most expensive. The Holland tool will straighten larger caliber rounds but isn't as easy to use as the Bersin.
So if all you want to do is measure Concentricity buy the Sinclair. If you want a tool thats a little more versatile buy the RCBS..............................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,533
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,533 |
I`d go for the Sinclair. Love the quality.
Proud Member of the AccuBond Society.......
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
What is the Accubond Society? Is there a secret handshake?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,080
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,080 |
Since the forum is Reloading - Big Game Rifles, I'd say don't get either one. They're not needed for accuracy on the large critters.
I once purchased the RCBS unit. Took it out of the box, looked at it quizzicly, realized the error buying it, and put it away. Realized I didn't need another tool to drive me crazy.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749 |
Since the forum is Reloading - Big Game Rifles, I'd say don't get either one. They're not needed for accuracy on the large critters.
I once purchased the RCBS unit. Took it out of the box, looked at it quizzicly, realized the error buying it, and put it away. Realized I didn't need another tool to drive me crazy. If you are happy with average accuracy and never shoot past 200yds you might be right. If you want to improve the accuracy of your loads it's a good idea to buy one and learn what it will teach you......................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,388 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,388 Likes: 1 |
I have the RCBS casemaster and it's a decent tool to measure runout of case necks and loaded rounds. But for measuring neck wall thickness I found it far less than satisfactory. It has too much slop so it gives all kinds of false readings. I bought a Sinclair neck wall thickness gauge and have been very satisfied with that.
Don't own the Sinclair concentricity gauge so cannot speak from experience on it but since - 1) the RCBS tool in my experience is only a single use tool anyway and 2) the Sinclair stuff I have owned is very high quality - I would recommend that you get the Sinclair.
You will never be sorry buying the best quality you can.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Since the forum is Reloading - Big Game Rifles, I'd say don't get either one. They're not needed for accuracy on the large critters.
I once purchased the RCBS unit. Took it out of the box, looked at it quizzicly, realized the error buying it, and put it away. Realized I didn't need another tool to drive me crazy. If you are happy with average accuracy and never shoot past 200yds you might be right. If you want to improve the accuracy of your loads it's a good idea to buy one and learn what it will teach you......................DJ I disagree with that.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,859 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,859 Likes: 4 |
I have rifles that qualify for big game, yet I enjoy shooting them at paper for fun. I derive a lot of satisfaction from seeing improvements in my handloading techniques and processes translating into better and more consistent groups.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,191
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,191 |
Really??? You mean to tell me that a guy with a rifle hobby like yours (and mine for that matter) does NOT own a run-out gauge of any kind? I find that hard to believe While we're on the subject, I have the RCBS gauge. I used to own the Sinclair as well, which was leant to a friend and he disappeared with it. I was broke and needed another one, and bought the RCBS gauge. It works just as well. But like others have said, it's pretty much just a run-out gauge. All the rest of the features are crap. There is a right and wrong way to use a run-out gauge. Especiall the V blocks on the RCBS gauge. If you've got rifles with sloppy chambers that pressure ring brass pretty good, you'll get hellacious readings on those cases if you set up the gauge as in "Example A" Example A Example B In "Example B", the forward most V block is moved up to the case neck, allowing the back end of the case to ride the rearmost V block above the pressure ring (right hand edge of the block in this picture) This allows for the fact that your rifle may have a less than match spec chamber, and/or you partial full length resize cases. The case head doesn't always stay centered behind the rest of the case after its first firing. If you allow the V block to reference off the case head, the whole case can wobble, showing a lot more run-out than is actually present. If you think about it, when the round is chambered it references on the shoulder and the part of the case that has been formed somewhat to the chamber, so 'plan B' you're actually measuring run-out as the rifle sees it. In the real world, there's plenty of room on a .473 bolt face (more like .480") for a slightly out of round case head to find its own center without affecting accuracy. In the real world, in all my sporters and tactical pattern rifles. Any TIR under .003" won't affect accuracy enough to worry about in any real world environment. Ammo selected that runs under .003 TIR, will produce much tighter groups than ammo that isn't. What do you do with ammo that runs over .003" TIR??? Shoot it offhand at an 8x8" steel plate at 200 yards. It'll still hit it if you do your job and I bet you could use the practice
Last edited by DanAdair; 10/03/08. Reason: Forgot Exibit B for the peoples prosecution against Steelhead
I'm Irish...
Of course I know how to patch drywall
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 359
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 359 |
Dan,
I tried your theory out and my RO was less as in ex. B..measuring as in ex A gave me .003-.004 RO..in ex B, I ran .001-.002 I guess you set your accuracy requirements depending where you measure them. I always measure as in A and consider anything <.003 as pretty good..<.002 as exceptional! If you measure as in B, notice that the case is tipped down and is bearing on the mouth of the case, and the dial indicator is closer to the bearing surface. In A, the distance looks about 2.5X longer, hence, minor deviations of concentricity would result in larger deviations of RO. So, If I were using your method, I would "reject" RO >.0015 in my case. In using method A, I have usually found RO in fired cases to be very concentric, and I can see the increase in RO as I proceed with expanding and seating...and yes, it does make me crazy sometimes. All in all, I think the RCBS tool is good for my use, and a ball micrometer is probably better for neck thickness...just what I think...
Art
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
Dan, the good news is the "handloading hobby" can be useful/enjoyed at any number of levels... I certainly have the intelligence and ability to take it to the extreme, measuring concentricity, truing primer pockets, case necks, blah, blah... Frankly, I don't enjoy handloading enough to bother. It's a particularly anal pursuit that, for me, isn't worth the trouble at that level.
I live by the 80/20 principle... I get the "80%" out of most pursuits and leave the final 20% unexplored because, in nearly any pursuit, the final 20% is the most difficult to attain... in most things, though not all, the "80%" is good enough for me.
I'm a couple steps above a LEE Loader and pre-measured charges, but not by much. That's my informed choice... I'd rather spend my time elsewhere.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,899 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,899 Likes: 11 |
Like most all of us, I would MUCH rather be shooting than reloading. However, I'll still check every few cartridges for runout just to make sure things is square. It's also a good tool for setting up dies. I had crazy runout on the first .270 Win reloads. Asked a few questions here about sizing and soon got things down to <.005. One less variable I guess.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,491
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,491 |
"Casemaster seems more versatile, but Sinclair concentricity guage seems like a higher quality tool. Your thoughts?"
I think you are correct. The value of versatility tends to get lost in the relitive lack of accuracy tho.
Example "B" above is really more of a measure of the case neck run out than the bullet, as Thumper found.
Of course bullet RO WILL follow the neck RO but the actual bullet to bore alignment will be much greater IF we measure near the tip than at the case mouth. Work to get the RO low, TIR of .002" or less, at the bullet tip and you will have some precision loading. (TIR is Total Indicated Runout, or twice the actual misalignment.)
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792 |
OK folks, I appreciate the input. I will probably go with the Sinclair unit, then get a sinclair neck thickness guage at a later time. Figure first to sort loaded ammo, then when I get the case neck thickness guage, sort cases, but doubt I will ever turn case necks unless I start shooting benchrest.
Thanks,
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,859 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,859 Likes: 4 |
John, Very nice results can be had without neck turning. For my "best grade" stuff I sort and select brass for neck thickness variation <= .001" and run with that. For general fun stuff variation <= .0015" will do. When you're sorting for .001" you'll find that domestic bulk brass gets just as expensive as Lapua when you divide the initial cost by the number of keepers. mathman
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,533
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,533 |
Proud Member of the AccuBond Society.......
|
|
|
|
523 members (160user, 10gaugemag, 01Foreman400, 1234, 10gaugeman, 17Fan, 62 invisible),
2,400
guests, and
1,235
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,320
Posts18,487,413
Members73,969
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|