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According to a friend of mine, Dr. Andrew Fox, PhD., Linguistics, UCLA, the Hebrew word for "kill," is "katal." It is NOT used in the Sixth Commandment. The Hebrew word in the Commandment is "ratsach," and means "unjustifiable homicide," or "murder."

I ain't hardly no expert in Hebrew... but my friend is.

FWIW. L.W.

BMT - I don't mean to take it out on you, but are you aware of the State of Oregon's policy as far as "killing" the elderly? To the legislators, and assumably the populace, there is a sliding scale of value on life depending on whose it is.

Regards, sse

Gen 9:6 Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man.


Rom 13:3-4 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.

All:

These are interesting points about "Slay" versus "Kill" versus "Murder."

But, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is a clear statement that only the sinless may execute the perp. The passage, in its entirety and in context is a very clear refutation of the death penalty.

I am not without sin. The only persons I know who were ever without sin ar Jesus and his mother, Mary. I will let them cast the first stone.

I have no desire to "understand" the perp. I have no desire to coddle the SOB. I DO seek to understand the gospel. I DO seek absolute truth.
I know that this is an unfulfilling and unpopular result. But, we are charged to look for fulfillment elsewhere.

I would rather err on the side of mercy for the killer (as in sparing his life) and spend the money on keeping him in jail. Hard Time in full security prison, complete with working on the chain gang and earning his keep, is fine with me.

Just my 2 cents.

BMT

SSE: No Offense taken.

Yeah, the mens group at my church is working on that. Sometimes we ain't too popular here in the Bleeding Heart of the Northwest. No abortion, No death penalty, and No Assisted Suicide. I guess we are just a bunch of liberals.

Oh, except the "Liberals" want abortion. And we stand firm on No Homosexual marriage, we think the Boy Scouts are great, we work hard to make marriage a lifetime investment, not an easy in-easy out proposition. The "Keep Christ in Christmas" billboards that we hung all around town did not endear us to the Liberals, either.

Sometimes people ask me whether I am a Conservative or Liberal. I tell them that I am a Christian, doing my best with what I've got.

BMT

Most excellent answer, buddy.
Like I said, I think we can respectfully disagree and still be campfire buddies.

I think he should be nailed on to a barn floor, in 'SEVERAL" places, and the barn set on fire. Guess it would be a waste of a good barn <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Mathias:

Works for me.

BMT

Yup.

they stoned people in the bible for less didn't they.

3fingers46"

Yep. The stoning in the passage I referred to was for Adultery, if I am correct.

But, the fact that the offense was small not addressed by Jesus. He did not say, let those who have never committed adultery Stone this women for adultery. He did not say, Save your stones for mureders. He said, "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

Jesus, and Mary, to the best of my knowledge, are the only two who are without sin. All the rest of us, should not, therefore, participate in the death penalty (or "cast the first stone").

Just my 2 cents . . . ..

BMT

I remember when I lived in Fla and was still going to school. I think it was when they fried Ted Bundy. I lived in Daytona Beach and every bar and restaurant gave out T shirts that said " BBQ Southern Style" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Okay, so let them slay, katal, ratsach, kill, murder, hewn down, stone, smite, conquer, pillage, plunder and fry his ass <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

BMT -

The Catholic church teaches that Mary was without sin. If this were true, then John 1:8-10 is a lie:

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

as would also be Romans 3:23 -

23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Mary was an incredible women, but she was a sinner as we all are.

As I posted above, God established capital punishment and ordained governing authorities to carry out said punishment: Gen 9:6 Regarding the example of Jesus and the adulterous woman, it is important to put this example in its proper context. The Pharasees and Saducees (sp??) deliberately brought this situation before Jesus in an attempt to discredit him (Mosaic law says adultery is punishable via stoning). If Jesus said don't do it, he'd break Mosaic law. Jesus came to fulfill the law...not abolish it. Jesus upheld the law; he did not say she is NOT to be stoned, he said whoever is without sin, let him cast the first stone.

Excellent points there. Nice job.

God says one thing ... Jesus says another ... I thought they were one in the same ... did he get soft? These are some of the things that bother me ... and yes .. they do keep me awake at nite thinking about them!!!

They said the same thing, really.

Avagadro - The Holy Trinity: God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one and the same. From your perspective, how/what did God say that was different from what Jesus taught?

Did not Jesus pray in the garden? If He and God were one in the same, then why would he pray to himself?

And watch himself (the Holly Spirit) decend down upon him like a dove? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Flinch