Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Pierce Actions...another REM 700 clone

If it's not to late get the Alpine Mag you will be alot happier!

+1000 what Ackleyfan said !!!

fwiw,
Concur...

Regards, Matt.

Guys I may be missing something here, but I have to ask,what if you're hunting, have a miss-fire,and have to get that bad round out of the rifle in a hurry? We're talking about spending a lot of money...on an action...that will NOT eject a LIVE ROUND?....Cause the loading port is too short,and the ejector lets go???

Seems to me that a bit of extra action stiffness(resulting in a 1/16th inch better grouping?)is hardly a worthy trade-off for the additional reliability of a larger port designed to handle the OAL of the cartridge you're using.We ARE talking about a rifle to be used for big game hunting, aren't we?? Or,are we......

I'd say it's a bit more than just a PITA,it COULD be a wounded animal getting away while you fumble to go "live" again and kill it.
I guess I just do not understand the emphasis on fancy accuracy and boutique actions, at the expense of field reliability, so prevelant these days.

Bob you bring up interesting points!

Bob,
I agree with you 100%. When he began producing the short magnum HUNTING actions as he advertised, I guess I was a fool to assume that it would eject a live round? The money I have tied up in the rifle and action is well beyond what refunding the purchase price of the action would be. Just to get a different action even at the same price, and then have it re-bedded, barrel re-threaded and chambered, etc. does not make any economic sense. Now I am probably going to buy a Borden SSR or a Remington and have the thing re-assembled. Not sure if I can utilize all my components though. What to do with the Predator? I suppose it would make a good action for an F Class gun?

BobinNH-

I don't think you are missing anything. I was just being optimistic on the outcome as I am soon in the middle of a build with a Predator and I did not know of these issues when I initiated the project.

Blackfootkooteni-

How short is the port of being able to eject a round with a 2.935" OAL? I am curious if I could machine out the front end of the port to get it to eject?

Funny thing with all this is I am not really a custom action guy- I am a lefty and I wanted a Short action Stainless action whick remington does not make. I am still optimistic that I will get it to work as my gunsmith/machinist is the best in the area. If it needs some slight mods/tweeking I am working with the right guy.

First, I'm not kooteni:-) Second, the port is not even close to being long enough. It's not just that though. We had to machine out the front of the port just to get it to eject a fired case! Not because of length, but because that little notch at the front of the port would direct the case directly up into the scope. I'm curious to hear other people's experience with the short mag on the Predator. I will post a picture later of the modification to mine. If you get it figured out, please let me know. I suspect the ejector button is in the wrong place. It's not where it is on a Remington, and I have seen Remington's with a Sako extractor feed and eject just fine.

Please post a picture Kenai

With a sako extractor you do not want the plunger in the same place as a factory Remington,it needs to be timed to lower the ejection angle so a case does not hit the scopes windage adjustment,I thought that Jerry Stiller was using PTG bolts for his actions, and they should have the correct plunger position for a Sako extractor,but i may be mistaken,Sako extractors installed in factory Remmy bolts have a reputation of throwing a case into a scope that is mounted to low!FWIW

Here are some photos if they work. Originally, the empty cases would not even come close to ejecting. It seemed as though the plunger was directing the case directly into the feed ramp. Then, after it was sent to Stiller, the cases would come straight up into the scope. Not just the turret, but straight up into the body of the scope. Now empty cases come out OK, but not as reliable as I would like. Loaded cartridges won't eject, they come up into the scope.

In checking a rifle over for functioning, it's a good idea,I think, to be certain the rifle will feed, extract, and eject BOTH loaded and fired cases.

I worked with a Rem700 300 RUM recently that would eject FIRED cases just fine, but would leave a loaded round sitting in the rails just about every time(it also had feeding "issues".

I know we intend to fire every round we load,but there can be unforseen problems(like a misfire or slight jam)dirty case refusing to chamber,etc.,that require we ditch it ASAP,and finely made actions whose primary application is to make the most accurate rifle possible,are not always the best choice for the dirty,grimy,wet/cold conditions encountered when we hunt. If they are to be used,they should be gone over extensively to insure they will function properly,in every aspect.Can save worlds of dissapointment.

I have noticed this strange phenomenon as well;namely,in the excitement of a hunt(battle)many of us(our systems charged with adrenalin) operate a rifle differently than we do at the range.The fascile movements we use in casual shooting,like we're handling Chippendale china, are replaced with stronger,faster, more urgent movements,sometimes faster than the timing of the action,and this can cause a failure to function as well.

In testing, always good to REALLY run a rifle in rapid fire,like you MEAN it,to make sure the rifle,and the ammo,work under the worst case scenario.Just my thoughts

Your plunger looks to be at 12:00 when the bolt is in the closed position,on my Alpine mag Jim has positioned the ejector button closer to the 1:00 position,you can go to the Borden web site and see some pics of his bolt faces if your interested,I can understand why this is fustrating to you,it seems you have put alot of time and $$ into your project,maybe a new PTG bolt with a ejector button repositioned would smooth things out,but then the port is still to short!

If I were to get an Alpine to replace the Predator, could I utilize my stock, barrel, bottom metal, etc. from my Predator rifle? Trying to find the most cost effective way to get a functional rifle.

blackfootkenai,

That is a good question - I am interested in the answer also!!

I dont recall the Stiller threads but the Borden does not match a Remington. I believe Borden mentioned someplace he did not like the idea of someone using Remington take off barrels on his actions and wanted to make sure they were using a top end custom.

Here is the bottom line on all of this. The plunger is in the right spot to eject the case out as low as possible. If it is anymore down, the case goes even further up. The predator also has the longer bottom port. That requires the bolt to be pulled further back which requires the port that much more back if you want to eject a loaded round. On this action for a loaded round to eject it will require a big cut on the port rear to open up the area all the way to the boltface. I will be happy to do this but it will look like hell. Most customers would rather have the port smaller and not worry about ejecting a loaded round.

This was a first run action. Since then we have made a few changes that help the empty eject. We moved the sako into the lug about 5 deg and are now putting in a narrow ejector. All of this was to help in the case from hitting oversize scope knobs, not to just eject. I have sold literally a thousand of these actions and have had but a few people have problems like this.

On this action I have talked with the owner and told him on many occasions to just send it back and I will happily refund his money. A factory Remington action will fit back in the stock or another clone could be used. He has always refused to do this. I am not sure what more I can do.

Varmintsinc, you are correct in your statement that Stiller threads are different from Borden threads. Whether Borden opted for the 18 TPI to keep someone from using takeoff Rem barrels is pure conjecture.

So if there is a fix, why could mine not be fixed? A simple exchange of bolts would suffice, would it not? Jerry, the point of this conversation was not to bash you or your product, although it has been hard to not go into more detail about this whole debacle. Obviously there are other people out there who do not know that a loaded round will not eject in your action that is advertised as a hunting action. That information should be available up front to your customers. If it is going to be used for hunting, it should be able to eject a loaded round. As far as refunding the purchase price, see my previous post. The cost of having it re-bedded, barrel re-threaded and chambered, new magazine box, etc., after I have paid to ship it back and forth to you from Alaska (not cheap) and paid another gunsmith to work on it just to get it to where it is now. My original post on this subject was to simply let people know something they obviously didn't. I also let your offer to refund my money be known in a previous post. I think if you look at it from my perspective, you would see that refunding the price of the action does not solve the problem. If I could get this thing to RELIABLY eject fired cases without paying another penny, I would consider the issue resolved.

I may be able to put in another sako extractor that will help remedy the issue. That will have the same basic affect as the narrow extractor. Send me the bolt and I will put it in or I can send you an extractor if you think you can do it. After that, that is all that can be done. A bolt swap will do no good beyond that.

By the way, I thought I paid for the return postage on the last one and included refund for the inbound with the returned product.