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At what point does a 4x4 with eye guards become a 5x5?

When it grows up and becomes a 5x5 with eyeguards.

Western count sounds like it was invented by a lawyer. You can count some but not all of the points. miles

When in Rome.....

Good point, wonder what how they each got started.

BC might think they settled it, but it would be with gross, not net.

When it's entered on the BC score sheet!

I gave up a long time ago and just let the owner of the antlers tell me what it is. 4x4 with eye guards or 10 point...who cares?

I personally like the eastern count method, as it describes the total number of points. Here in the west we would just say it's a four point - whether it had eye guards or not - or even two antlers!!
However I think the "best" method is to simply state the number on each side (5x5)(4x5)etc.. as that tells people the structure of the rack.

Our blacktails and mulies often don't have eye guards and that throws another wrench in the works..

I got a laugh out of the NC hand gunned whitetail 11 point! Hard to argue with that

Here in Idaho where I've lived all my life we use a traditional western count where an eastern 10 pt.(4 pt. each side with eye guards) is counted as a western 4 pt.. In reading Jack O'Connor's books I see where that was the way he identified deer also and he came from the south west US and lived here in Idaho for a number of years before his death.

I've asked people this on other forums and some become very defensive about it. It's just a form of identification and has nothing to do with trophy size; just gets everyone on the same page so they know what the other person is describing to them.

2Seventy

I'm not saying we're right or wrong,if any point is over an inch long we count it.Brow tines are added to the total points.What you call a 5x5 we call it a 10 point,any point off of a point G2 G3 G4 we call kickers.

Now I have seen eastern racks with character or junk, depending on your point of view, count points if a ring would hang on them.

Then there is the term 'Main Frame'. I first heard that and immediately thought computers. But even in computer talk I have no idea what a main frame is.

It is a good thing those cactus bucks don't show up here. Poor fellow would never get the deer dressed and to the buck pole just trying to count them all.

I figure most any buck from a NC 11 on up will, at the minimum, realize he has been near a firearm toting biped if I see him.

"Main Frame" is the "typical" antler configuration.

Someone may say his main frame score is xxx BC pts, for instance. He means the main beam, eye guards and the 3 pts coming off the main beam (tip of main beam is counted as a pt)Also the circumfrence and inside spread. No non typical pts are included.

A buck that has non typical points will be measured and refered to as (for instance) a 180" typical main frame. The added non typical pts will then be added to that for the non typical score.

Clear as mud, I'm sure....

Yup. Far as I'm concerned, anyway ya wanna do it is fine by me... hey it's your deer!
It only gets technical if you wanna have it officially scored for some reason. Then the recorder has to go by set rules, such as to qualify as a point it has to be at least one inch long...yadda yadda... there's enough rules to drown a horse.

If it's my deer and it makes me happy, I count it!