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#2717203 - 01/10/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: 444afic]  
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AggieDog Offline
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Also to Savage's credit, I have a Model 200 Stevens in 7mm-08 that would not properly eject the expended cases. Called Savage,and they sent at no charge to me a beefier spring with instructions on how to install it into the bolt. End of problem.

However, I am still shooting my Mossberg 22 rifle, and Mossberg shotgun. We'll let the jury decide the issue. I smell something really fishy personally.

CMG 300 BP

#2719963 - 01/11/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Sitka deer]  
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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
For a number of reasons I do not consider Mossberg a company worth protecting. I refuse to have anything to do with them and will not order them for folks under any circumstances. Unresponsive and reckless would be two fair descriptions of their business policy...


+1


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#2720104 - 01/11/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: 444afic]  
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drducati Offline
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Originally Posted by 444afic
I found the following about Savage bolts on the web (so take it with a grain of salt):
The Savage Arms' bolt assembly incorporates a floating bolt head to assure full bearing on both locking lugs. To achieve this, a bolt head retaining pin is used as a "pivot" point. The firing pin passes through a hole in the retaining pin and is ultimately guided/supported by the bolt head. To increase the cross-sectional mass of the bolt head retaining pin in their magnum assemblies, the diameter of the firing pin hole through the pin was reduced."


I don't know how my Savage got the lugs it did then. I thought I would check them for engagement and coated them with Dykem. There was about 25% engagement on one and 40% on the other. So much for full bearing.
That being said the rifle would shoot .35" five shot groups from a pencil thin barrel. It was a 22-250 and my cousin has it 15 years later. He shoots 2-3 deer a week with it year in and year out. Did have a funny trigger though. It was LIGHT.


Anything Worth Doing Is Worth Overdoing
#2720684 - 01/12/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Calif. Hunter]  
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rust612000 Offline
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is there an actual news article we can read bout these incidents? i havent seen any yet.

#2726925 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: rust612000]  
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if you search on google for Mossberg Injury Idaho--you will find one of them--my clients hit the press back in 2006 when he was injured and i have a copy of the article but probably cant be found on the internet
the 3 cases are all pending in court
one in the middle district of Florida, one in Idaho, and one in Loisiana

Alpha

#2726979 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Attorney_Holt]  
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to AGGIE dog--i'm not saying there is a problem with the Mossberg shot gun or the 22--just the 100 ATR bolt action rifle
You keep "smelling something fishy" because you were not airlifted to the trauma center when your 9 day old 100 ATR exploded blowing your face off. I didnt believe in the case at first, but now that 2 other people were injured with the same rifle in the same way--things start to look (or smell) alot different.

#2726980 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Attorney_Holt]  
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to AGGIE dog--i'm not saying there is a problem with the Mossberg shot gun or the 22--just the 100 ATR bolt action rifle
You keep "smelling something fishy" because you were not airlifted to the trauma center when your 9 day old 100 ATR exploded blowing your face off. I didnt believe in the case at first, but now that 2 other people were injured with the same rifle in the same way--things start to look (or smell) alot different.

#2727048 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Steve_NO]  
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looks like the Savage has been around for 50 years, and without significant problems. I still have difficulty understanding the design difference between the Savage and the Mossberg. I admit to my shortcomings--and just seeking input. My experts did a modification that took a matter of hours to design and install--so that the Mossberg will not fire out of battery.

I print and re-read your memo--but dont really understand. The Mossberg assembly pin has a hole through it for the firing pin--what is the difference you are trying to explain to me.

#2727371 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Brad]  
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EthanEdwards Offline
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Originally Posted by Brad
Yeah Art, the new trigger was for no reason, right? Mike Walker's sworn and documented testimony wasn't real. The faulty M700 trigger design and FOSR's well documented both inside the Rem factory and by consumers isn't real. Your willful ignorance and double standard is fascinating.

The new ownership of Remington inherited a multi-million dollar slush fund because the previous ownership decided paying lawsuits was easier than fixing the trigger design... talk about not giving a chit about the consumer. At least the current ownership stepped up and finally did the right thing.

I'd actually own a Remington again... at least Mossberg, when it found the problem issued a recall. Remington did no such thing.


You can't recognize the difference between a gun that has a part failure and fires accidentally, shooting somebody that it never should have been pointed at in the first place, and one that blows up in the shooter's face when fired, due to no neglect of safety rules on the part of the shooter? Then you take somebody who can distinguish between the two, to task? You're a real piece of work Brad.


MAGA!
#2728769 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: EthanEdwards]  
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Sitka deer Offline
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Cole
Hard to take him serious when he starts using trekking experience in Nepal as a substitute for hunting experience... Which is obviously pretty shallow. He did not even get the part about a Mossberg recall right... wink
art


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Bravo

#2728789 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Attorney_Holt]  
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Originally Posted by Attorney_Holt
to AGGIE dog--i'm not saying there is a problem with the Mossberg shot gun or the 22--just the 100 ATR bolt action rifle
You keep "smelling something fishy" because you were not airlifted to the trauma center when your 9 day old 100 ATR exploded blowing your face off. I didnt believe in the case at first, but now that 2 other people were injured with the same rifle in the same way--things start to look (or smell) alot different.


Have you spoken with the man in Columbia, La that this very same thing happened to last year? with the same rifle also.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
#2729038 - 01/15/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Sitka deer]  
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Suffice to say Art, I'm not impressed with the boy's reasoning ability on this and other threads. wink


MAGA!
#2729840 - 01/15/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: EthanEdwards]  
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AggieDog Offline
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The Idaho man you are referencing for people hear bought the rifle in Dec of 2005, and while Elk hunting in oct of 2006, and "while handing the rifle to his son" the rifle "misfired" and caused permanent injury to his hand. Again, I am not defending Mossberg, but Im not going to defend this hunter either. Why? Because there are too many facts we havent been told yet. For starters, I'd like some statistics on how many people have been injured from so called accidents with other rifles. I doubt the answer is zero. There are far too many things that may have caused this , not excluding the hunter perhaps being untruthful in his care, and use of this weapon. Did he ever take it apart to clean it? He had it a year, and I doubt that was the first time he used the rifle. If it was, some kind of hunter he is. Let's just get to the facts and then this story will have more legs. And Attorny Holt, yes I still smell something fishy when a rifle Misfires while handing it to someone else.

#2730073 - 01/15/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: AggieDog]  
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Dude, you need to learn how to hit the "reply" button so people know who you are talking to. For instance, I didn't reference any hunter in Idaho.


MAGA!
#2731228 - 01/15/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: EthanEdwards]  
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That sticker on your dad's bumper is my generation. Evidently, you did'nt learn much from it.

#2731958 - 01/16/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: luv2safari]  
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ringworm Offline
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Originally Posted by luv2safari
I seriously doubt anyone here would help you gut a great old American gun manufacturer. mad


im sure your outlook would be different if your 11 year old daughter had a firing pin blown thru her right eye and suffered extensive facial burning from the blast.

Nah, you'd probably want to "stand up for the company", huh?


"If you go off into a far, far forest and get very quiet, you’ll come to understand that you’re connected with everything.”
#2737914 - 01/18/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Attorney_Holt]  
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greydog Offline
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Holt,
The differences between the Savage and the Mossberg and the Winchester and the Mossberg are significant and obvious. As I mentioned in my PM though, I won't offer an education to an attorney for free just as an attorney would be unlikely to offer me free legal opinion (I once had one call me and ask me a question then try and bill me for a phone consult!). GD

#2754634 - 01/23/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: greydog]  
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AimHigh Offline
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I know that I'm jumping in on this late. I have been having trouble with a 100 ATR in .270 Win that I bought at WalMart last month and searched the web to see who else was in a similer situation when I found this. My problem started when I didn't find a warranty or registration card in the box. Also, the manual stated a 1-year warranty and the sticker on the stock stated 2 years. I emailed Mossberg customer service but did not hear back. I took two boxes of 130 gr. factory loads (1 from Rem., 1 from Win.) to the range after mounting a 3x9 Bushnell Banner. If I loaded 3 rounds or 1 round the last round would not feed (it would pop up and turn sideways). I thought I didn't put it together correctly when I took it a part for cleaning. Back home I re-assembled everything per the "exploded diagram" in the owners manual and tried some dummy loads. Still had the feeding problems. Emailed Mossberg again. Still no response. Called Mossberg told them of the problems and was told they would send a new follower/spring assembly to me. Was told that my sales receipt was my proof of purchase - no warranty/registration card provided. Still wainting on it to show up.

Did a close examination of the bolt. The bolt head/face, bolt body, and bolt handle are 3 separate pieces. All have to turn in unison for the locking lugs to engage. The firing pin passes through the pin that retains the bolt head and locking lugs. If the pin shears on one side there would probably sufficient friction/force on the firing pin that it would not move forward and hit the primer. This pin would have to shear on both sides, keep the firing pin aligned with the hole in the bolt face, and allow the bolt face to reamain stationary while the bolt handle was moved. More likely the bolt handle became dissengaged from the bolt body. During my military carrer I was trained to be the maintenance rep. for aircraft crashes (we called them "misshaps"). I am not an engineer, but for a great part of my adult life it was my job to find out what went wrong with aircaft and get them fixed. I would be very interested to see how this turns out for Mossberg. Also, I would think they would put registration cards in with new firearms to help "lawyer proof" themselves. -AimHigh

#2755115 - 01/23/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: BobinNH]  
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Remember that the Mossberg ATR-100 is a 3rd generation Raptor, probably not the greatest foundation upon which to build a rifle or a reputation. Raptor failed and the design went to Charter Arms. Charter Arms couldn't make a go of it, as their Model 2000, so the design went to Mossberg. IIRC, there was an article in American Rifleman or American Hunter in 2004/2005 about how Mossberg had reengineered the basic Raptor design to make it a much better rifle. It appears that their redesign didn't make it good enough. At least when Mossberg decided to build their 464 lever action 30-30, they built it around a proven/tested design, the Winchester 94.

PaulBarnard and I have a bet that the ATR-100 won't be in production on 08/16/2010. If it isn't, I win, if it is, he wins.

Regardless of whether Mossberg has success with the ATR-100 or not, it is too bad that folks have been hurt using them in the way that they were intended and it is too bad that attorneys are involved, as they seldom add value or seek the "truth".

Jeff

#2755744 - 01/23/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: AimHigh]  
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Originally Posted by AimHigh
More likely the bolt handle became dis-engaged from the bolt body. -AimHigh


That would seem to be the problem. If you study the pictures on this link of an ATR bolt that came apart, you don't have to be a rocket scientist or an engineer to see why it's a problem. If I were you I wouldn't be firing that ATR of yours until there is some kind of fix on the way the bolt handle is attached.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2630486/page/0/fpart/1


#2762450 - 01/26/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: yaderehey]  
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AimHigh Offline
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Great pictures of the bolt in your previous post. The NOV 2005 edition of the "American Rifleman" says on pg 112. "The handle is an investment casting, swaged, press fit, and then brazed to the rear of the bolt body.....". If the handle was splined to fit the teeth of the body and brazed it probably would last forever. Can't tell from the pics if there was any brazing. Also wonder if a machine shop could run these two pieces through a collet and crimp them. Kind of like a giant Lee "factory crimp die". In all seriousness, Mossberg should do a recall of all ATR (and 4x4?) bolts to check them out for defects. -AimHigh

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