Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ask John Barsness Questions About "Seating Bullets Straightly."

Neat idea! Thanks for sharing....

MD,

You mention in your article that getting a nice gentle taper to the case mouth chamfer is desirable. Which deburring tools would you recommend? I currently use one of the little Lee deburring tools. I don't know whether it is too steep or not, as I have nothing else to compare it to. Also, I suspect that it is not doing an even job all the way around the neck (or, rather, it is doing it's job just fine, but I don't think I can hold it straight enough to get things even!).

Thanks for the great articles. I went out and bought a runout gauge and it's the cat's meow.

Sinclair International offers and inside chamfering tool that makes a much gentler taper than the typical deburring tool. Some shops that cater to metal machining also carry various deburring tools for small openings. I have one with a rotary blade that works very well. Actuaally, deburring with the small blade on a pocketknife would probably work too. The big thing is to avoid the slight burr that typical tools tend to leave because of their steep angle.

I recently ran across a long tapered chamfer tool advertised as for VLD bullets. Forgot the brand, but I suspect this would do what John is saying?

No offense to John's suggestion on tweaking the bullets to get the rounds with less runout, but Luke's reply makes my question come to the top again. Luke, have you verified on the range that this tweaking of the cartridges actually results in better groups, or does it just make you feel better about your ammo....LOL

I suspect adjusting the loaded ammo may be inconsequential to accuracy, unless the ammo was way out, and as stated many times above maybe the reason your ammo is out of round should be addressed rather than making bad ammo and trying to fix it, IMHO, with the worst possible way to make good ammo...

I just fixed the problem on my 300 Wby by getting a new FL size die.

Allen

John,

How do totally avoid lubing cases?

Second, I picked up a tool made by Bersin at the Super Shoot (bench rest) a rew years ago. You insert the loaded round up to the shoulder and rotate it. The device measures runout and tells you where the high spot is. Then you crank a little post and it improves the runout. I use this for 600 yard target shooting. I don't know if it actually makes tighter groups or just makes me feel better.

I either neck-size or partial-size cases for PD shooting, if possible. I neck-size .204 and .223 cases in Redding bushing dies, only full-length sizing them (in a Redding body die) when necessary. I partial-size .22 Hornet brass in a Hornady FL die backed out a couple of threads.

Evidently Hornady just introduced a bullet-runout tool that also can straighten out bullets that aren't seated to your standards. I have tested whether straightening slightly crooked-seated bullets helps accuracy, and as long as the bullet isn't TOO far out before straightening, it seems to help.

Thanks John, I will have a look locally to see if any machine shops carry such a thing. I looked up the Sinclair deburring tool and it looks like it would work much better than the Lee tool.

John, Any tips on seating large caliber bullets in straight wall cases? I am new to this type of cartridge and it is giving me fits with straightness. Thank you

I assume you are belling the mouths of the cases. I have found a good target-type seating die helps. These keep the bullet in alignment better than standard dies during seating. I use the Redding Competition seating die when loading .45-70's, for instance.

I've been belling the mouths, but they really go in crooked. I needed an excuse to get an order going at Midway so the Redding die gets me that. Thanks

Good useful info. I have to confess I am a case rotater when seating bullets, it's habit now even though it doesn't do anything.

I was wondering about using O rings to float every threaded element possible to reduce run out. O rings between dies and lock rings,die and sizer stem, and shell holder and ram? This method was made popular by Tubbs & Zeddeker.

Also how important is the press itself? My old A2 press looks like it did duty smashing cans at a recycling center for a couple of years. Will the press aggravate excessive bullet run out?

Hi John,

Just discovered that you provide this "service" for users of this forum - this discovery has made my day. Now I get to ask you a question I have had ever since I read an article you wrote where you discuss resizing brass first (a) without the expander, than (b) replacing the expander ball then expanding the neck by by "pushing" the expander ball into the neck as a means to improve bullet concentricity/neck runout/bullet runout(i.e., two step resizing process). I think you even stated that you have two dies to do this (i.e., one without the expander ball and one witht the expander ball).

My questions are this - I have a Lee FL resizing die and a RCBS FL resizing die for a .300 WSM. First, is it acceptable to use one of these dies to resize the case and the other to expand the case neck if the dies are from different manufacturers (or should I get another RCBS or Lee). Second, if the answer to the first question is yes (it is acceptable), what die should I use to rezise the case and which should I use to expand the neck or does it even matter?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Yeah, you can use dies from two diffeent makers to do the two jobs. I usually don't, one reason I tend to use Redding or RCBS dies, because the expander/decapper assembly is easily unscrewed.

Sometimes dies with a screw-in assembly will expand necks straighter with the "push-over" method, especially if the assembly is left slightly loose in the die, instead of being tightened down.

Whenever I post this, I always get the forum equivalent of a blank stare (maybe they're rolling their eyes ).......

I drop my dies with Imperial Wax into a parts bucket of laquer thinner (I have a couple of these buckets I made out of different sizes of coffe cans). I drop the brass in as each one is resized, let them soak for a while, pull them out and run neck brush into the necks, drop the basket back into the bucket and let them soak for a few more minutes, then blow out the brass with compressed air.

I think the brass has residual lubricant on it with just wiping, and the lacquer thinner gets the cases "squeaky clean".

I'm pretty sure that I have seen pressure signs that were caused by not thoroughly cleaning brass--I had a buddy who had pressure signs until I cleaned his brass with my method.

I once saw the aftermath of a beginning handloader who didn't wipe off his spray-on lubricant........ruptured the case and stuck the bolt......



Casey

John,

In your recommendations about acceptable neck concentricity for accurate hunting rounds, are you speaking of the maximum variation in readings on a gauge such as RCBS's casemater (e.g., .315 minium to .320 maximum = neck concentricity of .005") OR total variance from the axis of rotation (e.g., (.315-.320)/2 = neck concentricity of .0025)?

The reason why I am asking is that I've seen a post on another forum that stated that dividing the total variance in neck concentricity gives you the true neck concentricity of a case (i.e., "out of round" state), but that most people speak of neck concentricity as being the difference between the maximum and minium readings. If that is the case, I have been mistakenly culling cases because I have taken neck concentricity variation to mean the difference between the maximum and minium readings (e.g., culling cases for what I thought had variations greater than .005, when in actuality, the neck concentricity was .0025).

I'm talking about the maximum variation in neck thickness of a single case, as measured by a Casemaster or similar tool.

Just reread the newsletter on "bullet seating" newsletter and I came to a sickening realization. I have been following the process of removing the expander/decapper assembly, sizing my case (FIRST STEP), then replacing the expander/decapper assembly and pushing my the expander through the neck (SECOND STEP) AND THEN CONTINUING TO PUSH THE SPENT PRIMER OUT. I am just now realizing now that this is probably defeating the purpose of the SECOND STEP because as I full-lenght resize, I am compressing the neck again, and therefore still PULLING on the case neck as the expander ball comes out of the case. Is this correct?

If my reasoning is correct, do you see any disadvantages/harm if I (other than prolonging the reloading process)(1) FL resize as normal, pushing the primer out as I do so, (2) resize again with the expander/decapper removed, and finally (3) reinstall the expander/decapper and pushing into the neck, BUT only enough to push through the neck (i.e., not pushing the case fully into the die. Because of where I live, I would not be able to get a "Universal Decapper die" anytime soon (and I am not very patient).

Thanks in advance

YTou rprobably are defeating the purpose of pushing the expander ball through the neck. But it depends on how straight your cases come out of the die. If they come out straight, no problem. If they don't, the necks are obviously being pull off-kilter by the expander button.

The sequence you suggest REALLY overworks the brass in the neck, and you'll end up with cracked necks a lot sooner--or have to anneal a lot sooner.

Have you tested the necks of your brass for straightness the way you size them now?

I am not MD but you might try raising the die off the shellholder 1/2 dozen turns and screwing the decapping rod all the way down in the die and see if it will deprime while not resizing anything but the uppermost portion of the neck. If the die isn`t a Forster with the raised expander it should still expand the neck, and the die body will make minimal contact this way..just a thought.

Mule Deer,

No, I haven't, but I will now. I guess I am so focused on trying to create the most accurate ammo possible, straight-off (fairly new to reloading), that I have not even checked to see whether some steps are even necessary (i.e., assuming my necks have unacceptable run-out following resizing without even checking first).

By the way, I just finished "breaking-in" my .300 WSM using the "Final Finish System" and hastily prepared the twice-used brass using your two-step process to make some test loads for a 180 grain MRX (I am going to try the "OCW" method).

Ol' Joe's suggestion of raising the shellholder + screwing the decapping rod all the way down seems like a reasonable option to try (yes, it is an option for me - I am using an RCBS die - Thanks Ol' Joe for the wonderful). However, I am somewhat reluctant to try it - it seems that the decapping rod/decapping pin would be placed under a lot more stress, increasing the probability of (a) breaking/bending the decapping rod and/or (b) breaking the pin. Replacing either would be a painful process for the same reason why I don't order some type of decapping die (google Earth Pangnirtung, Nuanvut Canada and you'll understand why). Has anybody out there tried, or have addtional, thought's Ol' Joe's suggestion.

Thanks