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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,987 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,987 Likes: 7 |
Jordan, I am feeling pretty dumb after reading your post because that is about as fine a synopsis of good bullet performance as I have read on here. I have been trying to explain that for a very long time but just lack the (duh!) skill sets to put it together and explain it that well.Excellent! Bob, Thank you for the kind words, but just because you're not a physicist doesn't make you dumb or lacking skills, not at all. To the contrary, you're one of the more intellectual guys that I know of around the campfire. +1..
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Jordan/jwp: Thank you both.Ditto I am sure
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,784 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,784 Likes: 6 |
The Nosler Partition 200 gr out of a 300 WBY at 2900 fps should shed enough fragments to poke holes in lungs arteries and still punch a 2 inch hole on exit. That is what I am expecting. Full frontal or Texas heart shot DRT.elk. Opinions? Such bullets have been killing elk successfully since when - the late 1940's? 160g Partitions, as loaded by Federal in 7mm RM, were my backup cartridges for many years. In recent years, however, the elk have become smarter, tougher and more elusive and what once worked is now woefully inadequate. (If the trend continues they will soon develop opposable thumbs.) These days the successful elk hunter uses at least a .338-378 with heavy for caliber bullets. A .50BMG semi-auto Barrett with a big Nightforce scope is better, allowing hunters to shoot elk in the next county. You might be able to kill an elk with a 200g Partition but you would need to get really lucky. Ackley was doing this stuff 60 years ago with the 220 Swift and the Ackley CE bullet.You guys are usuing way to much gun. GS is doing it today aswell. http://www.gsgroup.co.za/22x64.html Really like the part about elk developing opposable thumbs.Cool. dave
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,154
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,154 |
Don�t you love it when people argue that momentum is conserved but pretend energy doesn�t matter, even though it is also a conserved entity and inseparable from momentum in that you either have both or you have neither?
Don�t you love it when they claim no energy is transferred to the target but have no answer for where it goes when the bullet�s velocity, and therefore its momentum and energy, drops to zero? Maybe they think it just disappears? (So much for conservation...!)
The fact is that it takes WORK to tear flesh asunder, shatter bones and do the other things a bullet does. Maybe they think when a prairie dog is sent flying is different directions the energy required to accelerate the body parts comes from a lightning bolt?
While I freely admit that energy alone is a poor predictor of terminal performance, it is a tool with its place, to be used or abused as the user sees fit. The more similar the calibers and bullets the more useful it becomes, and vice versa. As I�ve said many times, though, retained energy is only one aspect. More important is the rate at which energy is transferred and for what period of time, something retained energy figures alone cannot inform about. Then there is bullet weight, bullet construction, etc., all factors that play a part in terminal performance.
The truth remains, however, a bullet with zero energy does no harm while a bullet with infinite energy destroys the target, the earth and the universe.
"More important is the rate at which energy is transferred and for what period of time, something retained energy figures alone cannot inform about." Since we're giving out accolades, I just want to say that this was a fabulous response and the above portion especially profound.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,328
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,328 |
OK it seem we all agree that the 200 partitions should do the job as long as I do my part. I would that expect that 165 or 180 partitions should do the job satisfactorly at 400-500 yards loaded max out of the 300 WBY. Maybe not as good as 200s but still perform. Many of you seem to have used this bullet to perfection.
Jimbob
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
I have used the 180 Partition on a couple of bulls out around 450-475 from a 300win mag, started at about 3125. It works fine at those distances.The 200 gr Partition penetrates a bit deeper than the 180,but the 180 penetrates far enough.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 31
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 31 |
Barkoff this is the answer to your question... yes it can. The problem with that answer is this; it raises a much more important issue, and that issue is this: You. None of us are capable of being as good a shot as the rifle is capable of being accurate. So, while the answer is yes, the real question to ask is, "ethically, am I a good enough shot to kill that animal with this rifle, chambered in this cartridge, at that range?" If the answer is no, either practice, get a bigger rifle, or get closer. I would advise the latter, as a bigger rifle does not make you a better shot, can actually make you shoot worse if you develop a flinch. So, use the rifle that you are comfortable with, and practice with it at those ranges. (Remember that the U.S. Military has been using those cartridges(.308 & .30-06) for a long time as sniper rounds, and at ranges far exceeding 380 yards. Get out your ballistics chart, and practice.
The Only Accuracy Issue With 99.99% Of Weapons Is The Nut On The End Of The Buttstock.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 146
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 146 |
I didn't have the time to read all the posts wish I had more Here is my take on your question .Killed a least one Elk a year from the time I was 18 and seen 3 times that many killed. Plan on killing one a year for next 30 years before I die. If my health,teeth are good and I can still eat them. The .30-06 is, and probably will always remain, the most popular elk cartridge because of the variety of rifles chambered for it, the availability of great controlled-expansion bullets and factory loads like Federal's High Energy and Hornady's Light Magnum put it right on the heels of magnum cartridges. This link is a good one to go to and read. http://www.gunhuntermag.com/Article...articleId/210/Elk-Rifle-Progression.aspx
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