Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Game Warden Kills 76 Year Old Man

Well now Isaac, I don't know about that. Sounds to me like two armed, buttheaded turkeys got into it and one come out on the short end.

BCR

Wonder if the fine for hunting turkey over bait comes out of the estate?

chiseled in his tombstone: Shoulda kept his mouth shut.

Game warden should have left and handled the situation after the threat was diffused. He was enforcing a law that deals with wild animals and the feeding of them while hunting, nothing that presents a threat to public safety. AND he was on private land. Next thing you know the dog catcher is going to kill someone over an unlicensed dog in their own home. Old man should never have threatened the game warden, then again the game warden should never have created the situation in the first place (he's supposed to be the professional). You ask, should they walk away. I say YES!!! Game laws, stolen packs of gum, litter, and stray dogs all have something in common --- NONE of them are worth someone getting killed over. Maybe teachers should be licensed peace officers so the next time some loudmouth kid says I'll kill you, the teacher can pump 2-3 into his chest if he makes any furtive movements. He11 if we're gonna start killin' folks we might as well get rid of the rotten apples while they're young.

Fair enough,Boggy. But, even I know that were I in that dynamic, I certainly wouldn't be threatening an armed badge of authority with a threat to kill him, especially were I armed, as well.

Maybe I'm foolish that way but I just think it's bad JuJu to go that route!

nothing that presents a threat to public safety
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He threatened to kill a officer of the law. What does public safety have to do with it? How about the officer's safety if you accept the possibilty the armed old man did, in fact, threaten to kill the GW and presented an overt act in furtherance of the threat?

Bob

My remark was semi-tongue in cheek, but I hope if I were in the GW's position, I wouldn't feel the need to kill the old guy just because my authority had been challenged. The citation, if one was going to be written, could have been served in other ways.

Anyway, I'm glad this one man poaching ring was terminated, although that doesn't seem like the proper word or does it.

You know in the "old West," when two armed men met, the level of courtesy increased and problems were avoided for the most part. No more, compliance at any price.

GW: Hey Coffee, that you up there in that tree?
Coffee: Damn right and you get the f off my land!
GW:Coffee, you know I ain't gonna do that. I got you dead to rights huntin turkeys over bait and I'm gonna write you a ticket you old coot. Now get on down here.
Coffee: I ain't comin down til I get a turkey, I'm 76 years old and the climb up damn near kilt me. Now get the he11 outt here.
GW: Whatcha gonna do if I don't old man, shoot me?
Coffee: If I gotta climb outta this tree I damn sure will you miserable SOB. Now here, hold this shotgun so I can get down.
GW: OK, here's your shotgun back, now point the damn thing over there while I write you a ticket.
Coffee: just a damn minute, did you forget I was supposed to shoot you after I hit the ground? Let me catch my breath.
GW: Oh, that's right...you're gonna shoot me, I'm scared. BOOM

If only Andy Taylor had been there , he could've talked the old man down out of the tree , took him home for supper with Aunt Bea & Opie , and everyone would live happily ever after.

Mike

I really enjoy most of the opinions and the give and take here on the Campfire, but some of you folks really need to get a reality check. Making snap judgments about this incident is a fools errand at best.
We at this point know very little about what really happened.
Some of you are ready to go on a Game Warden killing spree? Are you for real? Please let me know if you are going to be near my location so I can do my best to avoid you.

Isaac's last post puts it in perspective.

Could the GW have handled it better? Most here are saying yes. I don't know, I've seen some unbelievably belligerent old men, that believe they are bulletproof.
Who knows, I'm just sorry to hear that a man was killed in an avoidable situation.
Lest any of you want to assume that I'm an LEO/GW apologist, that's not true. I see the stupid side of LEO's/GW's and the general public enough to believe that there's plenty of blame to go around in many instances.

Case in point, me, my Dad, his buddy and his buddy's uncle went to New Mexico on a guided elk hunt across the valley from the Jicarilla Apache Reservation.
The regulations stated that a legal bull needed to have four points on one side.
Well, old Ralph puts a forkhorn on the ground, and when the guides and his nephew asked him what the Hell he thought he was doing shooting a non legal bull, he belligerently stated. "I'll shoot any God Damned thing I want, and if a Game Warden has a problem with that, I'll shoot him too"!
This put us other three guys in a real bind, with the guides not wanting to get their asses in trouble, and us not wanting to have our legal bulls confiscated and getting pinched by the law over this dumbass stunt by old Ralph.
Luckily, it was taken care of in a manner I'm not willing to reveal on the 'net but I vowed right then and there not to aid or protect dumbass violators. Old Ralph couldn't understand when he was told that he was not welcome to hunt with us anymore. His words were "You're a bunch of pussies to be afraid of the Possum Cops"

So before condemming or exonerating the Game Warden let's hear some facts.

Game warden snaps a picture and leaves - mails the ticket to the guy and nobody dies. Game warden decides to show this old scab who's boss, pushes the situation to the limit and a man dies. I know which scenario makes the most sense to me considering the encounter began over a relatively meaningless game law. It is expected that as a peace officer (barely, in the case of game wardens, dog catchers, and mall cops) they will have to deal with both your average Joe as well as the most ignorant, lawless folks around. Being able to handle both without alienating the public, escalating tense situations, or getting yourself or others killed, is what seperates professionals from posers. Throw a loaded sidearm into the mix and the posers have the potential to undo a lot of the good done by those a little more secure in their manhood.

I agree with you toltecgriz, except that he was threatened with his life by an armed man, a little different than just having your authority challenged.

Bill

"Game warden killing spree?" I haven't seen anyone advocate that.
What are you talking about?

Of course we have to take the Game Wardens word for that don't we.

What armed law enforcement officer would ever foolishly consider turning his back and walking away from an armed man who has threatened to shoot him dead?

A badge of authority caught the old man dead to rights, illegally hunting, and ordered him down. The old timer threatened to kill the GW. I remember many of you castigating LE for not rushing into Va Tech and not rushing in at Binghamton NY old folk's home and now this cop should have merely walked away from an armed threat on his life!

Good grief! Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

I am sorry for the old man...I truly am. But, if it were a gang banger up in that tree poaching turkeys, I bet there wouldn't be a peep other than props to the GW for taking out the POS.

There's only one status when it's an armed man threatening to shoot you dead,IMO!

Now, if it turns out the GW was power happy, I'd be the first to shift gears. But now, I'm believing the GW didn't just shoot this man only because he was up in a tree poaching turkeys!

YMMV and I am cool with that! It's just how I see it.

Bottom line to this as I read it, no one will ever know what really happened. Only one side to the story left alive.

Me, I'm with a bunch of others, common sense would tell you to leave and get with it later. Pushing folks, especially folks that are old and may not be mentally all there at any given moment, is just stupid, I'm willing to think the GW may should take some of the blame, unless he was not allowed to walk away.

I recally where we called the ambulance because grandpa was having a fit with his alzheimers at home. Grandma got out of the house and we called. SO showed up first and wanted the doors unlocked(I"d put double deadbolts on for security- this on a 100 acre farm out in the country) and when I unlocked the door, after they asked if weapons and we said NO, all knives are locked in kitchen drawers(my doing also) and the only gun left has the firing pin removed, so no, no danger at all, they drew weapons, upon which I simply stepped in front of the [bleep] and moved in and grandpa listened to them tell him to stay sitting..... The reason we called the ambulance is he had a fit and got a chicken out of the fridge and was throwing it at grandma, he needed a calming shot and delivery to a nursing home at that point. But being afraid enough to draw weapons on an 85 year old alzheimer patient with a chicken out of the fridge....

I"ve seen both sides. Escalating it is asking for it IMHO, especially when its nothing more than the same violation as a speeding ticket or such....

Jeff

Plus, there's threats and then there are threats. We sure don't know that part, but apparently we do know the GW had time to take cover and fire from that cover and no one said the old man shot.

I think he (the GW) had better options (almost) regardless of the scenario.

From the article:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"...Went he got to the ground,Minton had take cover and was radioing for back up..."

And from the original poster after speaking with another LEO
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"I think that he could of went back to the road and waited for Coffee and his son and two grandsons to come out..."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


So, the GW had to take cover for some reason and there might have been witnesses.

Now you did it. I see a subpeona in your future.

In Texas a GW doesn't need a warrant to check you,your vehicle or your residence or anything else if he deemed it necessary.