|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 24
New Member
|
OP
New Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 24 |
I purchased a 20 gauge for dove hunting. It was like packing a BB gun in the field. So, I thought I would take it back to South Dakota. I loaded it with 3" #5 and they worked fine on close birds. However, 30-40 yd. shots produced a number of cripples. And, I'm a fair shot. I'm not familiar with shotgun ballistics other than what is on the box. But, my logic was by going 3" and #5 shot might put me closer to a 12 gauge performance. Is there a large ballistic difference in the two cal.? I'm thinking of going back to the 12 gauge this year. But would rather carry the 20.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 902
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 902 |
What you are running into is the fallacy of the 3" 20 gauge. Just because you can fit a 12 gauge payload into the 3" shell doesn't make a 20 gauge into a 12 gauge. I'm betting that those 3" shell beat the h#ll out of you too!
As the bore size gets smaller, the center pattern density gets less and the effective range of the pattern gets shorter. There are many reasons for this. Shot deformation, at least with lead shot, is probably the largest culprit, but increasing shot size as the bore decreases also has an effect on pattern density and the ease of connecting solidly with your target.
The easiest way to carry a 20 and have the performance of a 12 is to find a lightweight 12. The Benelli Ultra Light or an Ithaca Ultra-lightweight are two that come to mind.
The only true way to get 12 gauge performance is to shoot a 10 gauge or 12 gauge gun, limit your range and/or the shot presentations at which you will shoot at birds at longer ranges with the smaller gauge guns.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,384
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,384 |
Two years ago the fiancee went on her first pheasant hunt carrying a pump 20 guage. I'd bought some Fiochhi 3" loads for her. She wasn't cleanly killing anything. That night in town I picked up some high speed 2 3/4" loads for her. The next day she was killing stuff. As a young teenager I killed a lot of pheasants with dads cheap sxs 20 guage, and fed it a little bit of everthing, mostly handloaded 2 3/4".
Like Bay Dog said, a 20 isn't a 12, and you won't ever have the range.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,810
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,810 |
Wild Pheasants are a hardy bird that past 30 yards can take punishment and fly on to die in a place other then your hand. I've seen some great shot gunners consistently kill them at long range, but the rest of us mortals should content ourselves with shooting at reasonable distance. Which is usually around 30yards and under. In S.D. there are more than enough birds to let the questionable birds fly on and then go find another.
Beautiful bird that lives in beautiful country. Use your 20 reasonably and enjoy the day.
laissez les bons temps rouler
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
We (yeah, a couple of us) favor a 20 ga. for pheasants over dogs or otherwise holding tight, like around 30 yards max. We use quality #6, 3 or 2-3/4 inch, at mod choke or IC and get clean kills. I think with sixes you get better results from multiple hits. Not that a 20 won't kill farther if set up right (tighter choke for one) and shot well, but just have the urge to go to a 12 beyond that. Some day I'm going to get one of the super light O/Us and select shells accordingly. Each year carrying the lighter 20 feels a little better.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,090
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,090 |
20's are a fine early season gun on roosters IMO, its the late season birds that will get you into trouble. I run #4's all the time now on cock birds, not as many pellets to pick out and they brakes bones.
It�s a magazine not a clip......
Advice is seldom welcome, and those who need it the most, like it the least.� - Lord Chesterfield. 1750
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,007
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,007 |
I'd guess your gun doen't pattern the loads you were using well .
I don't buy into the opinion that you need large charges of heavy shot to cleanly kill wild roosters , and I've been hunting them for about 45 years .
I would try some different loads of 1 oz. of 6 shot in your gun and hunt with the one that patterns the best .
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,019
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,019 |
I agree with sd. You don't need 3 shot to kill pheasanst from a 20. Make sure you have a Mod or IC choke and get some 6 shot shells that shoot goood patterns out of your 20. You will be fine out to 30 and MAYBE 40 yards, but keep your shots a little closer. I don't find I kill any more birds with a 12 then I do 20. And when birds start getting 40+ yards out I'm probably gonna miss with my 12's and my 20 guages...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
I dont know why but I always thought that Pheasants and 20 gauges went hand in hand.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,275
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,275 |
Used to hunt alot of pheasants with a 2 3/4, full choked wingmaster with # 5's and 6's. This was 30+years ago,and dad had a hell of a time trying to teach me to let the close flushed birds fly a ways before letin loose. Don't know why but it seems like every shotgun dad had was choked to full choke.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
Shot is the same wether it's loaded in a 12 or a 20. The only difference is in how well they pattern and the initial velocity of the load. And, frankly, that can vary alot with the loads you use. A #6 Remington might pattern better or worse than a #6 Federal. The other thing is where the center of the pattern is. I've seen some loads that put 3/4 of their pattern above the point of aim. Or even 2/3's below the point of aim. Again, different brands will shoot at differently. So pattern your gun with your hunting ammo. It's the shot in the bird that kills it. I've shot wild, 2 1/2 lb. pheasants with 7 1/2's very dead. I've also used #4 on big hybred birds that flushed at a distance late in the season. Big difference as to range, penetrating power and size/weight of the bird. A 2 1/2 lb. bird is far smaller and easier to kill with small shot than a 5-6 lb. hybred going straight away from you. BTW, I'm also of the belief that an extra heavy magnum load can lead to bad shooting simply due to recoil. Particularly in a light gun. The only thing I'd use any magnum loads on would be waterfowl with steel shot. E
Last edited by Eremicus; 05/02/09.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,108
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,108 |
I live in NW Iowa and was shooting pheasants quite awhile before I had a drivers license. I've shot them with all the presently available gauges and even the .410 to prove I could though it is not a shotgun to use on pheasants.
There is pheasant hunting and then pheasant hunting. Over a dog in thick cover I often use a little AyA 28 ga. with 3/4 oz of 6s or 71/2s - the "square load"; that is, a load of shot as tall as it is wide, the load that makes the 28 seems to kill "bigger" than it is. The square load lessens the shot string length and has few deformed pellets - flyers - on the periphery which negates the better pattern expected with more shot. The pattern may look denser on a two dimensional pattern board with a 3" magnum in a 20 but add the dimension of length and now you have a longer shot string with fewer pellets hitting the target at the same time. A 20 ga. is also excellent over a pointed dog but stick with the better balanced 2 and 3/4 oz loads and don't go too big in shot size, perhaps not bigger than 6s or 5s at the outside.
The square load is about 7/8 0z or practically 1 oz in the 20 ga., near 1 and 1/8 in the 16 and close to 1 and 1/4 oz in the 12.
When you are pushing wild pheasants in row crops you will get roosters running (the fact that their is a path or row seems to make them run quicker than some wild, thick grass patch) and then flushing at 3o yds. and out. Then, you can go to the bigger gauges but keep your loads balanced and of good quality. Generally, the smaller the gauge the better you'll be with smaller shot all other things being equal.
My advice is to carry the 20 with good loads of 1 oz to the short mag if you want of 1 and 1/8 0z of 6s. There are so many birds in S.D. hold up on the 40 yarders and take the sure-thing- shots of 35 yds and in.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
I agree completely with Goodnews.
The "secret" to killing pheasants at normal ranges is hard #6 shot (or thereabouts) that patterns well. A lot of 20-gauges won't pattern #5 or #4 shot well, and for that matter a lot of 12's won't either, especially if full choke. I have killed a pile of pheasants cleanly with 28- and 20-gauge shotguns using 7/8 and 1 ounce of good, hard #6 shot out to 40 yards. In fact I have gotten about the same results with #7 shot (NOT 7-1/2) in both gauges.
If you aren't killing pheasants cleanly to 40 yards with a load like that then either your shotgun doesn't fit or you are simply fringing the birds. And believe me, I have patterned enough shotguns to know that a thin fringe happens with all gauges, not just the smaller ones.
Only past 40 yards does a 12-gauge make much difference, but even then you have to pattern the gun to find what loads it really likes, and are generally better off with 1-1/4 or maybe 1-3/8 ounce of good hard #5 shot than anything heavier. Good pattern density kills more birds cleanly than fewer, bigger shot, if the shot you use penetrates deeply enough. Another good size is 5-1/2, if you handload.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,713
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,713 |
I broke in on pheasants shooting a 20 gauge, and never had a big problem killing them at extended distances with the proper load and chokes. As was already stated, I think the load and choke combination is very important ..... Cat
scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,010
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,010 |
I really like to use Federal Premium, 20 ga, 2 3/4 inch, 1 oz, COPPER-PLATED #6 shot at 1350 fps, Modified choke.
Out of 8 guys I hunt with only one 12 ga and one 28 ga all the rest are 20 ga.
When the tailgate drops the BS stops.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,788
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,788 |
Not to be a smarty pants or anything, but I think the 16 is just made for pheasant. Kinda in the middle, better patterns than a 20, smaller frame than a 12.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,007
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,007 |
A 16 is a super nice choice for ringnecks.....
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,535
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,535 |
I've used both,the only problems I ran into were my skills,other than that they both took the birds down when I did my job.
I prefer the 20 ga myself because I like my 20 ga better than my 12ga
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,323
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,323 |
The 20 is a fine gun for pheasants as long as you don't put a 3" shell in it. The shot string is horrendous. That 3" 20 is also what killed the 16 gauge which is the best of the bunch anyway. If built properly it hits like a twelve and carries like a twenty.
`Bring Enough Gun`
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 215
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 215 |
When I have tried 3" 20 gauge loads they did not seem to hit pheasants as hard as regular high-brass 2 3/4" loads did. Although this does not seem like it should be the case, nevertheless that's how I saw it. I thought I was shooting each load as well as the other (although the heavier recoil of the magnum load may have blurred my evaluation), yet the magnums were just not killing cleanly for me. That being said, a 20 works fine for pheasants. Nowadays I usually choose a 16 gauge, but sometimes a 12. Usually hard #6 shot in 1 1/8 ounce loads.
|
|
|
|
721 members (10gaugeman, 10Glocks, 12savage, 12344mag, 01Foreman400, 1234, 76 invisible),
3,066
guests, and
1,493
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,739
Posts18,476,029
Members73,942
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|