Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 45-70 GG, bullet ? for elk

That Remington factory round is loaded very mild and is very easy on the shoulder. It also barely managed to expand, which I figure is why it penetrated so well. I forget the advertised velocity for the 405 Rem factory round, and never have run one across the chronograph. I think the factory claims somewhere around 1300 fps, but I've heard other guys estimate 1100 - 1200 fps or so.

I shot a mule deer doe with the 405 Rem bullet, but loaded to about 1650 fps - it worked real well. Appeared to have some expansion, and penetrated completely through both shoulders on a broadside shot from about 70 yards.

The Swift, loaded to over 2000 fps has more thump on both ends for sure!

One of these days I'm going to save up a whole batch of gallon jugs and belt 'em with a 425 grain hard cast bullet...

Uhh...you'd better have more than 12, that much I know.

Barnes TSX .300 grains work well in my .45-70 GG.


Experience on Red deer, fallow deer, pigs, and roe deer with them.
Also on paper, see image:

My go to bullet for my guide gun, is the 300 gr. nosler partition. I've used it on bear, wild hogs, and on my plains game hunt in south africa, last summer. Out of 15 head of big game, I have only recovered 4 bullets, 3 from a zebra, and 1 from a kudu, which was the size of an average bull elk. Here's a coupla pics.



My kudu.



Recovered noslers.

maddog

"Kudos" to maddog. Good pictures. Thank you.

Take a look at the DOUBLE TAP AMMO 405gr. JSP 1800fps

Elk are just big deer, our grandfathers shot them with 30-30 and the like, with lead solids, at low velocities.

Almost any well constructed bullet in the 300-450 gr range, placed well will work if it shoots well in your rifle. The elk won't care.

Barnes, Nosler are favorites, they work. You can shoot the Rem 405 for practice, and use Alaska Bullet Works Kodiak bonded core 405's for hunting.The Alaska Bullet 405 doesn't get much attention but it's a great bullet, It deserves a look.

The old fashioned 405 gr Remingtons are really reasonably priced, just not sexy like the new offerings from other manufacturers. Some people think the jackets on the Rem are too thin. They aren't built for high velociey however. Just one guys opinion.

I really loved the 300gr Win Partition Golds for elk and Bison. They just plain worked.

I shoot the 300 gr Nosler PT at 2150 from my 18.5 GG with H322. 3/4 moa all day long at 100 yards.

I haven't tried it yet on elk, but my Browning 1886 with Buffalo Bore 350 gr JFN at 2100 fps I think would be quite effective.

Big, flat and lead

I too shot a Marlin 45/70 1895 lever gun and I can only say that those Swift bullets are hard to beat on big game, staying together, giving a great mushroom effect not to mention penetrate deer too.

However, on the lever guns, I have gone to the Nosler 300 grainers, (wish they were 350grn.) I don't shoot 405 grain at all on big game as the trajectory is not the greatest down range.
I don't shoot any hardened cast bullets much out of the 45/70 but I do out of the 444 Marlin in 325 grain weight. It gets used more then the 45/70, guess I just like the velocity better, oh well.

The 350 gr hornady FP would be the perfect one to choose. I've been following stories on the 45-70 for quite a few years and the 350 hornady in the 45-70 is supposed to be a great combo for everything under grizzly bears. lots of success stories with that bullet in elk, moose, black bear...

I personally shot them into a big propane tank filled with water at about 2000 fps. they punched through and came out the back ending in about the diameter of a quarter, still fully in tact in a nice mushroom shape.

the 300 gr HP might work, but I wouldn't use it on anything bigger than deer unless I had no choice.

other bullets you didn't mention that I've heard good about are the 300 gr partition, 300 gr barnes x, and any of the 400 gr + hard cast

Jim...I know it's not one you mentioned having but I've had tremendous results with the plain jane 400 grain Speer. I have yet to recover one out of an elk, and it doesn't matter if the animal was broadside or quartering away/towards. All the elk I've shot with this combination (H322, 24" barrel) went for no more than 10 yards and blood loss was impressive, to say the least.

I've heard this bullet get some bad reviews over the years as to being too soft but in the soft skinned, non-dangerous game I've used it on I have had nothing but excellent results. Bear, elk, deer (o.k.....one coyote) all one shot kills...always an exit.

After pleading with Speer for a number of years I gave up and went to other bullets. They must have gotten some calls from someone who impressed them more than I did if the Speer now works as well as you describe it... and I don't question that, but 19 years ago I use it (the 400-gr) on a big black bear and vowed I'd never use it again, which I haven't except for shooting them up in practice. They were VERY soft with a poor BC to boot. The Remington 405-grain is MUCH tougher and has a better BC, and is about 1/2 the cost!

In my testing the 350-grain Hornady RN is too much like the 400-gr Speer, it also is very soft and I'd NEVER push either of them above about 1650 fps on anything bigger than a coyote.

The bear in question was hit solidly behind the right shoulder - exactly where I was aiming - he went up over backwards and landed on all fours in high gear making tracks for parts unknown. BUT, the bullet did work in the sense that it made a 3" hole going in (was never found and never exited)and the bear lost all his life sustaining red fluid before 10 yards! He piled up and I gave him another for good measure. His right side was saturated from shoulder to rump with blood.

Bullet impact was just over 1500 fps. It turned out OK, but have never used that bullet since in hunting, and still have the rest of 'em on hand. The 350-grain Speer is a much better bullet and with a Lee crimp die can be loaded in the Marlin. It's BC isn't great, but it WAS designed for the 458WM (and I've used it out of a 458 on bear)and will penetrate through just about anything when pushed at 2100 to 2400 fps.

My favorite for the Marlin (mine's a 22" classic)is a 465-grain hardcast with GC at 1900 fps. That'll flatten anything in NA, and most anywhere else.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I'm another fan of the Speer 400 grain flat point. I don't push the velocity, though. In bench testing my gun is most accurate around 1600 fps with 52 grains of H4895. Groups with that load run in the .6s for 3 shots center to center at 100 yards. (Scope, obviously.) Add 100 fps and the groups open up to over 3 inches. That's a net loss, not worth it. It shoots it's accuracy load flat enough for 125 yards comfortably. That's all I ask of a lever action.

Figure squirrels don't count, so lets say I've only shot one critter with it, a blacktail buck. The bullet may not have expanded at all, couldn't tell. It was the first "eat right up to the bullet hole" kill I've had in a long time.

Tom

+ 1 for all the good things said about the Nosler partition protected point bullet used in the Winchester Supreme loads.
The factory Winchester .45-70 ammo and .45-90 handloads up to 2200 fps have been accurate and very effective for me in my .45-90.

The 300 gr Partition worked well on two cows a couple of years ago.
But I'm cheap and like to shoot so for me I have settled on the 350 Hornady fp or most often Rem 405.
With the Rem 405 the case is forward of the crimp groove,so you need to use enough of the right powder to support the bullet and keep it from being pushed back during recoil.my typ load is 60gr 4895.
Cast bullets are the obvious next step. Shoot straight!

Another vote for the Piledriver Jr. from Beartooth Bullets. I use a mild load of RL7 to get around 1600fps, and there ain't an elk in the world big enough to stop one of these. I've taken 3 Roosevelt elk in the Cold Jungle of Washington's Olympic Peninsula with this load, and it will chop a one inch hole all the way through, doesn't matter what angle. All 3 elk have gone down hard and only one made it to his feet again...briefly. Massive internal damage and no wasted meat.

Just be sure that there isn't anything standing behind your target you don't want to kill when you pull the trigger.

BasicBeer, the only problem with the Beartooth Piledriver Jr.s is getting them. I've run them in the mid-1600s and the penetration is tremendous.

If you don't mind the wait, they are a top-notch bullet.