Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire F'in house just passed Cap and Trade 8 repubs crossed and 2 did not vote

Winners & Losers: The bill transfers wealth from rural areas to cities. States like California, Washington, and New Jersey would receive more emission credits than they need, enabling them to sell surplus credits to smaller facilities in states like Ohio that receive maybe half of the credits they need - making the rich, richer, and the poor, poorer.

Devastates Rural America: According to the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association, the monthly residential electricity bills in 25 states will increase 15 to 28 percent for every $20/ton of carbon dioxide allowances. Rural households spend 58% more on fuel than urban residents as a percentage of their income. The Heritage foundation estimates farm income will drop by $50 billion by 2035.

Outlaw - good post.

Before I offer my opinion, a few qualifiers of my opinion: AS - Business Admin, BS - Geology, MS - Geology- hydrology emphasis, State Regulatory Agency - 7 yrs, Private consulting - 3 years, Federal Regulatory Agency - 10 years. I state all that to make a simple point - I didn't fall off the environmental turnip truck yesterday.

The earth has and does go through warming/cooling cycles - search on the "Little Ice Age" for a recent mini-excursion. Clasically trained geoscience folks learn about the carbon cycle in college - and its associated feedback mechanisms - one of which is production of more water vapor, and increased precipitation. Ice cores do show the earth may be heating up a few degrees - so what. This isn't the first time and won't be the last time.

For a real chuckle look up the climate model used for the Kyoto protocol. From memory - I think it showed a 1.8 degree C (4 F) increase in temperature over the next 50 years. The model has a gazzillion parameters - none of which has that kind of mathematical precision. The model is akin to doing brain surgery with a chain saw.

Second - until the rest of the world (r.e. China mainly), gets on board with cap and trade, US efforts won't amount to shiite.

As to the clean water/air/ecosystem BS spewed earlier. Have a gander at the nations stream and air quality in the 2000's compared to the 1970's when the Federal Regulatory Agencies were created. Drive around the Appalachian coalfields and you'll see evidence of past abuse - that many mistakenly believe is occurring today - not. It is a visual legacy of days gone by.

There is lots more to say about this goofiness. Mostly I believe the folks spewing the BS believe in what they say. The difference is they do not know what the hell they're talking about. A classic case of a little knowledge - and extrapolating way beyond the data. They are at best mis-guided, at worst ruining the US.

The probem is two-fold: 1. Industry, in some cases, doesn't help itself by self-regulating. They are in many cases driven solely by profit, 2. The people spewing the earth is falling BS have become entrenched in that position - and won't listen to what science says, in spite of the few "science supporters" backing man-made global warming.

Let me sort of describe my overall policy.

What I've said is that we would put a cap and trade system in place that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there.

I was the first to call for a 100% auction on the cap and trade system, which means that every unit of carbon or greenhouse gases emitted would be charged to the polluter. That will create a market in which whatever technologies are out there that are being presented, whatever power plants that are being built, that they would have to meet the rigors of that market and the ratcheted down caps that are being placed, imposed every year.

So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted.

That will also generate billions of dollars that we can invest in solar, wind, biodiesel and other alternative energy approaches.

The only thing I've said with respect to coal, I haven't been some coal booster. What I have said is that for us to take coal off the table as a ideological matter as opposed to saying if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it.

So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can.

It's just that it will bankrupt them."

bwinters nailed it.

this is a religious exercise by the true believer Warmist zealots, and a power and money grab by the rest of the democrat/socialist machine

and Mr. Climate doesn't give a damn about any of it, and will do what he will do, just as he always has and will. one little bit of solar activity dwarfs all that Pelosi and her dwarves can do.

Does it now go to the Senate for vote?