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#3155409 - 07/14/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: PreciousLiberty]  
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Murphy Offline
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Murphy  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Alaska
I have a Sako Av in 338-06 AI and a MRC actioned 338 WSM. I guess I like them both. I also have a DA 97 in 338-06 std and recently acquired a 338 RCM....that one is cute.

It isn't about being practical it is about getting what you want or something new to try, I don't get to do that with women any more so I guess it's guns.

I have AI'd every caliber and some are better cartridges than the parent from many angles but in certain calibers the standard is too good to mess with. The 6.5-06 and 336-06 are a couple of them. The 338 WSM was the WSM that never was. (Say that fast) and ballistically it is one helluva a nice package but it is a bastard among the forgotten. It is so easy to make brass from 300 or 325 brass and the Redding has dies at about $100 for it, (338-300 WSM), about the same as AI 338-06 dies.

I guess it would depend on the action you're converting. My Sako is unaltered and feeds like a champ. I lost one round in the box to four. It was originally a 270. The WSM needs a WSM action, to convert a 308 or such world take more work I would think.

CMG 300 BP

#3157122 - 07/15/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: PreciousLiberty]  
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Mark R Dobrenski Offline
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Mark R Dobrenski  Offline
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Posts: 28,277
Bozeman, Montana
I am a certified 33 loonietic, and so have worked with the 338/06 (not the AI) and the 338 WSM and the 338 (as well as a couple of bigger ones).

Personally, for me the short action thingy doesn't do a thing for me. The smallish amount of weight saved and or the bolt throw being a bit shorter doesn't mean anything to me.

The 338/06 feeds like a dream and mine with a 23" tube would do with a 225 about what a 338 would do with the 250. The WSM closes the gap even more.

My WSM feeds well, but having 3 down is a tish bit tight but do able. (M70, Schneider tube cut to 21")

I do like the fact that the 338/06 can handle more rounds down as I don't shoot very well....grin

After years of using the .340 I found the 338/06 to be a welcome and wonderful change. Way more user friendly.

As for shooting at range, any of the 3 can be made to work to 500 yds with no problemo with dotz and or the Burris BP. In my 338/06 I ran the BP and had no problem in sighting it to kill elk to 500 with a 250 Nozler @ 2500 fps.

If I were in your shoes (you already have the dies) and wanted to play a bit with a round then I'd do the AI version. It'll give you plenty of smoke and will be very easy to form cases with.

Best of luck to ya!

Dober


"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
#3158304 - 07/15/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]  
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efw Offline
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efw  Offline
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Mi.
I know what they say about liars figuring, but I took the fastest loads for each cartridge to compare the two. Check out these numbers:

338 WM, 200 gr SPR SP, 74 gr IMR 4350, 2979 fps

338-06 A-Square, 200 gr Interlock, 59.5 gr BLC-(2), 2856

That is a difference of 123 fps and 14.5 gr of powder, or 4% increase in velocity from the '06 to the WM for a 24% increase in powder charge.

Remember that when calculating recoil that powder charge is second most important factor behind bullet weight.

Lest one think that the difference is larger between the two with the 250s, check this:

338 WM, 250 gr. Interlock, 67.5 gr H 4350, 2657 fps

338-06 A-Square, 250 gr. Interlock, 59.8 gr H 4350, 2540 fps

Thats 117 fps for 7.7 gr or 5% increase in velocity for 13% increase in charge weight.

The distance between these two cartridges power-wise is miniscule, and the AI version is going to narrow that margin to next to nothing.

Now don't get me wrong, if I were planning a once in a lifetime trip to Alaska and had to choose between the two there are advantages to the WM like ammo availability that offset these numbers to some extent, but even so, they're pretty hard to argue with. At least for me.

I'd figured that I'd someday "need" a WM after building an '06 as a winter project this year, but after running these numbers thought better of it. That having been said, I love the challenge a wildcat offers from a handloading perspective.

If I were going for the "practical," I'd stick w/ my 30'06 Springfield.





Don't you ever wonder why
In spite of all that's wrong here
There's still so much that goes so right
And beauty abounds?

The thunder rolls and the baby sighs
And the rain comes down
Don't you wanta thank someone for this?
-Andrew Peterson
#3158392 - 07/16/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: Mississippi]  
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DarkStar Offline
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DarkStar  Offline
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Posts: 1,190
New Jersey
Really??? And i thought that the 350 rem mag was the original "short" mag, huh go figure....

#3158522 - 07/16/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: DarkStar]  
Joined: Nov 2007
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efw Offline
Campfire Kahuna
efw  Offline
Campfire Kahuna

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Posts: 15,872
Mi.
Nah... everybody knows that the 257 AI came before the 350 RM wink .


Don't you ever wonder why
In spite of all that's wrong here
There's still so much that goes so right
And beauty abounds?

The thunder rolls and the baby sighs
And the rain comes down
Don't you wanta thank someone for this?
-Andrew Peterson
Alpha

#3158751 - 07/16/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: PreciousLiberty]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,232
260Remguy Online content
Campfire Kahuna
260Remguy  Online Content
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,232
NE
I have a 338-06 built on a S&W "C" (Husqvarna 8000/9000 action) with a 23" barrel that I really like. It shoots 210 grain Partitions really well and I think that I'd feel well armed for anything from antelope through grizzlies with this rifle/cartridge/bullet combination.

Since a 338-06 isn't a target or varmint cartridge, I think that the small gain in case capacity and the advantage of less trimming of the AI version is probably not very significant to most people. I've owned my 338-06 for over 10 years and have yet to fire the 500th round through it. The original set of 100 Winchester/Olin cases is still in use and the only time that they were trimmed was after the 1st time they were fired.

I built this rifle, along with its twin in 256 Newton, so that I could hunt North America armed with S&W firearms; revolver, rifle, and shotgun. For some reason I thought that it would be fun/interesting/cool to do that, but now it doesn't seem so fun/interesting/cool to do so. I was thinking in terms of a S&W 624 in 44 Special, S&W Cs in 22-250, 256 Newton, 30-06, and 338-06, and a S&W 1000 in 12 Gauge.

Jeff

#3158988 - 07/16/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: 260Remguy]  
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aalf Offline
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aalf  Offline
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S.W. Wis.
Now that PreciousLiberty has bought the 338-06 in the classifieds, his sleepless nights of pondering cartridges are over, temporarily......

#3159777 - 07/16/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: aalf]  
Joined: Nov 2007
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efw Offline
Campfire Kahuna
efw  Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Nov 2007
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Mi.
I'd be willing to bet that he started pondering another cartridge or two before he even bought that '06 wink .


Don't you ever wonder why
In spite of all that's wrong here
There's still so much that goes so right
And beauty abounds?

The thunder rolls and the baby sighs
And the rain comes down
Don't you wanta thank someone for this?
-Andrew Peterson
#3161525 - 07/17/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: efw]  
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Posts: 673
PreciousLiberty Offline
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PreciousLiberty  Offline
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Posts: 673
Charleston, SC
Ha, well good to see this started an interesting thread at least.

Actually I'm done pondering cartridges for a bit, time to do some load workup now...hunting season starts next month!

I ended up not going the AI route. That means I won't have to worry about feeding issues or reduced mag capacity. I guess I'm glad to see a couple recent posts supporting that idea, at least taking the rifle to Africa will be a possibility if I ever make the trip. The data at Hodgdon's site make the regular .338-06 look pretty good.

I won't miss being able to load up to .338 WM levels. If I need something more than the .338-06, it'll be to hunt big bears or the Big 5, and it'll be a .375.


#3161530 - 07/17/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: PreciousLiberty]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle
Mark R Dobrenski  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Bozeman, Montana
I pretty much just used H4350 and R15 in my 338/06, for what that's worth.

And the 200 Horn sp was big time scarry accurate in mine, of course it's also been so in every type of 33 I've ever shot it thru.

As for big bruins, I'd gladly take the 338/06 after them.

Dober


"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
Bravo

#3161878 - 07/17/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]  
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Otis Offline
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Otis  Offline
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Hatfield, AR.
Well PL, you have started on a subject near and dear to my heart. Mine started out a 284 win. on the L61R action! I already had a 284 win on a FN action, so I thought I don't need 2 of them so lets build something cool! I was shooting a lot of pigs in central CA. and wanted a gun for the big ones! I had just miss getting a 338/06 on a 721 rifle with dies, brass, and some bullets for 400.00! So I set out to built one on the SAKO. Bought the barrel, reamer and dies and went to work! I have been shooting the Ackley for some 15 years now and never looked back! I shoot mostly Nosler 210 gr. Part. in my 338/06 AI, you would be suprised to see how flat this round shoots! If I ever quit working and get to hunt, I am ready for whatever comes down the trail!


Semper Fi USMC/0331
#3162195 - 07/17/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: PreciousLiberty]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 25,202
Brad Offline
Campfire Oracle
Brad  Offline
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Posts: 25,202
The 338-06 needs no "improving" IME... been there, done that. Great round.

If you want more than the 338-06 get a 338 WM. Been there done that too.

The 338 WSM is a nice oddity... have certainly shot Dobers, but the reality is it's a poorer feeding 338-06+P that holds less down. It's not as good as the 338-06 or the 338 WM IMO... FWIW.


Cartridges are more alike than different.
If Montana had an army the 270 Win would be standard issue.
The 308 Win; it kicks a little and kills a lot.
#3162203 - 07/17/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: PreciousLiberty]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 15,872
efw Offline
Campfire Kahuna
efw  Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 15,872
Mi.
Well said.

I'm in the load development stage and have done a bit of research.

Here is the link to a couple of threads that might be helpful to you:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3099470/1

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3103353/1

The most accurate load I've worked up so far has been the 200 gr Interlock w/ 54 gr of RL-15. I didn't get good results accuracy-wise with H380, but found that my POS Hornady FLS was oversizing necks causing runout, so that may have been the cause.

Another helpful tool I always utilize is this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=794498

I've been very intrigued by the velocity results listed for BLC-(2) and the big game potential of the 215 gr SGK. I got decent accuracy results from 59 gr of BLC-(2), the 200 gr Ballistic Silvertip, and CCI-250s, and am working more with those right now.

If you'd like me to email you the information I've collected I'd be happy to. Just send me a PM w/ your email.

I'm really interested to see what you come up with.


Don't you ever wonder why
In spite of all that's wrong here
There's still so much that goes so right
And beauty abounds?

The thunder rolls and the baby sighs
And the rain comes down
Don't you wanta thank someone for this?
-Andrew Peterson
#3162593 - 07/17/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: efw]  
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 821
Otis Offline
Campfire Regular
Otis  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 821
Hatfield, AR.
I have used R-19 but found IMR 4350 to be the best in my SAKO 26" bbl. I have never had a feeding problem with the L61R action with the 338/06 AI! Compressed loads and never a sign of pressure! I don't quote weights, but from 100 yrds to 350 hardly need any hold over! Just one mans doings, the improved part is not for speed, its for consistency, and that equals tight groups!


Semper Fi USMC/0331
#3170262 - 07/21/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: Otis]  
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Posts: 673
PreciousLiberty Offline
Campfire Regular
PreciousLiberty  Offline
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Posts: 673
Charleston, SC
Thanks for all the load data and other thoughts guys.

Unfortunately, the seller has backed out and I'm probably going to wait 'til next year to build a rifle. frown

Nothing too interesting on GB or GA, please PM me if you run into a M70 CRF type action based .338-06 (AI) for sale.


#3173306 - 07/22/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: PreciousLiberty]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
atkinsonhunting Offline
Campfire Tracker
atkinsonhunting  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
Filer, Idaho, USA
I will stay with the 338 Win. It is about as well balanced as any caliber I know of and its in the same action as the 338-06 and I can't tell any difference in recoil between the two..If I want one of the other .338 calibers mentioned then I could just load down to those specs..My present 338 weighs 8.5 lbs. with a 24 inch barrel. I have trouble deciding if I like the .338 or the 9.3x62 the best. I suppose the .338 would win out on that one??

Probably if push came to shove I'd go with the .338 Win. as my one and only caliber. It has served me so well and I have shot up to a Cape Buffalo with it.

Bottom line is it will do anything any other .338 caliber will do and it does it better, all things considered, IMO..

My two chosen loads are the 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS and the 300 gr. Woodligh at 2500 FPS, both shoot to the same POI other than the 210 is an inch higher, but that works perfect putting the 210 gr. 3" high at 100 and the 300 gr. 2 inches high at 100 with no change in the sight in...

Last edited by atkinson; 07/22/09.
#3173734 - 07/22/09 Re: .338-06 AI vs. .338 WSM? [Re: PreciousLiberty]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 15,872
efw Offline
Campfire Kahuna
efw  Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 15,872
Mi.
PL-

Very sorry to hear that man!

This 338 has been an absolute joy through which to develop loads.



Don't you ever wonder why
In spite of all that's wrong here
There's still so much that goes so right
And beauty abounds?

The thunder rolls and the baby sighs
And the rain comes down
Don't you wanta thank someone for this?
-Andrew Peterson
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