Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles The Ultimate AR...

The read is also full of some holes.... its an opinion, just like the rest of ours.

Might be the ultimate AR if you're a SOF type of guy. I'm not.

Terry

Hey Jeff, did you see my post above about the 20" fluted barrel?

It may not be what you want but at least you know now.

Terry

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I certainly understand that. All part of the learning process, I think.

What do you find could be improved?

The 22pdk is the Brainchild of Roy Winnett. He also does the 6mm pdk, 20pdk and the 6.5pdk. He has the cases made for him, I bought 800 a few weeks ago...they look very well made. He has a website where you had reach him, www.pdk20.com. Jezzer (UK)

Thanks Jezzer, that's what I was looking for.

As for the opinion/holes thingy, I and alot of other people share the same opinion, only makes you right if it works for you.

I have a feeling we'll see just who makes the best AR/M4 since Colt's time expired on the rights to the M4 TDP. It now belongs to the Army and test guns are being built probably as we speak.

The MIL and Colt worked together "tweaking" the M4 into what it is, not all companies use or can use the info. Now we will see...

Basicly a Colt 6920 (civy legal M4)is about perfect for an all around AR especialy if HD/PD is important.

Indeed, a Recce configuration is not the best at anything. It wasn't designed to be. If you shoot High Power, it's useless. It is less then optimum for building clearing. It lacks the barrel length to hang with the SPR's past mid range, and the optic is generally not setup for 700m shots. It however, can do nearly everything adequately.

I could care less whether one uses a 10.5in barreled gun, or a 26in heavy monster. The original posters stated goals point to a specific configuration.








Maybe, maybe not. If all goes as some plan there will be an open competition. If so it's doubtful the M4 as we know it will be selected.


Tracking on the 6920. It follows the TDP, and there is a reason for the TDP.

It will be interesting for sure. I know some are hoping for a new mouse trap but when it all shakes out buying an $800 M4 vs a $2000 HK416 (or other) tells me we ain't done with the M4 yet and to me that's a good thing.

If you buy a single high-end AR-15 with HD/SD in mind, I would like you to think about the following. I happen to live in a subdivision and my wife and I have several children of various ages living at home. When an HD situation arises and you pull out that big ole AR-15, release the bolt to load the first round off the 30 round mag and start blasting away, just remember this, you have to account and explain every bullet that you will be sending out of your fancy schamcy AR-15 and this may very well happen in a court of law in front of a judge and a hand-picked jury. If your bullets go through the interior and exterior walls or doors or windows (and they surely can,) they will continue on looking to spend themselves somewhere. For non-TEOTWAWKI situations, a shotgun or a handgun is better suited for HD. Also, I have never been able to conceal carry an AR-15.

On the other hand I read where Isaac said a few times that he wants to use this rifle for hunting and big boars where mentioned. I suspect there will also be some target shooting and some plinking, perhaps some varmint shooting, these things usually indicate a need for an accurate rifle. Longer barrels will produce higher velocity, a good thing for hunting and longer distance shooting.



Bushmaster, DPMS and Rock River are all fine. I do not believe Isaac is going into combat. I am partial to ArmaLite, there are many others.



Oh my gosh, I don't have fully (or partially) chromed lined barrels in my ARs. I have stainless steel barrels and I take good care of them. I would love to know how I am giving up "some longevity and durability, and reliabilty with certain types of ammo with them."



As you probably guess by now, I like 20inch or longer barrels. Then again, I don't run and gun and as I explained earlier, I will not be using an AR for HD, unless there is nothing more suitable left.


Indeed, and I explained that in my earlier posting.


I hope by now that I have made my point about how bad an idea it is to use an AR-15 for home or self-defence in non-TEOTWAWKI situations.

The stock AR-15 is actually a pretty lousy device designed to make it difficult to shoot accurately ; the trigger is designed for a full auto rifle. If you are serious about wanting to shoot it accurately, you need to change the triggers. The NM triggers from ArmaLite and others are very good. I have Geissele triggers in mine. Don't worry, they have been backordered for many months now; the government is seemingly buying all the triggers Bill Geissele can make at home. I know of none other as good, let alone better than Geissele.

Once you have fired a stock AR-15 trigger and then try out a Geissele or even an NM from ArmaLite or RRA, you will understand why you do not want the stock trigger.




Get a flat top and then get a nice variable scope. There are many excellent scopes to choose from.





Especially if you are in the military or just want to have a tacticool rifle.

Terry, saw that and saved the info!

Isaac

My take.... barrel goes 2-3 ways for length, 16 is worthless for much of anything but specialized. Its not a varmint or plinking tube, and its a LOUD SOB...

20 is a good compromise

26 is fine if you need all out speed...

223 is fine for combat, but I think you will do some hunting, while I'm totally comfortable with the 223 and right bullet for most deer, the 6.8 gives a bit more umph... and choosing caliber will depend on what your main goals are vs ballistics and cost of ammo.

I beg to differ on quality of some that are said to be bad... I've run so many rounds through RRA and not had any major problem... Of course I don't run as many rounds as others but have run between about 8-20K a year for many years without issues.... and the triggers in a lot of those guns were RRA NM triggers without an issue.

Chamber wise... a wylde is a 5.56 chamber with a bit better throat... it has no other differences from a "combat" chamber so to speak and it won't have any issues with any ammo unless you can find a bullet thats over standard diameter. Beyond that its fine.
I have nothing against a good chrome barrel if you get a good one. They are MOA tubes or better. And live longer lives than SS ones. But you have a decent chance of getting a bad chrome lined one too. That lining has to be done to a good tube to start with and done correctly, IE a cheap chrome one isn't worth the time unless you want to only blast.

I tend to agree on twist rate. 8 minimum

Match triggers.. all I can say is that while shooting and while running matches, I've seen one match trigger go down, I have seen some lightly set ones not keep weight at 4.5 pounds or over by leg rules, but they never failed to work, while I have seen about 3 IIRC standard ones fail. Luckily I carry many spare parts with me and can replace about anything thats field expedient in a match, including a complete trigger...
As mentioned Geisselle are going to govt contracts at the moment....

Sight wise my take is if you can't engage a decent sized target like a human silhouette with irons out to 600, you better learn HOW to shoot. But that doesn't mean I'm against glass and for most purposes glass is a good shot at it. I've never been a huge fan of red dots, I've used them a lot but they just never lit my fire, I can shoot as good or better with irons generally, but in fairness i have a bit of time with irons.

BTW I do have an 18 inch tube, and FWIW I just don't see that the 2 inches makes it any better in a house situation, or even the 4 inches of a 16 all that much better. In a house, regardless of others, I'd still clean house more confidently with a shotgun. And carry a carbine or 20 incher for outside work.
While FTR mentions penetration issues, I've been led to and read so much I'm almost convinced that 55 soft points would be safe in a house. OTOH I've shot 69 bthps through a sxs fridge/freezer at over 300 yards, that means I ain't using them in a house....

Float tube is a requirement as its a good thing and reliable enough, though I have seen 2 come off at the welds years ago...

BTW I should add I dont like the 6.8spc.. but thats just me. But it does make a good larger hunting round.

Facts are facts. The original poster asked for suggestions on an all-around AR for hunting, shooting, and home defense. He wanted it to be accurate, and reliable. Call it whatever you want, however as myself and another poster stated, his needs/wants fit a certain style or setup.

Just to clarify, I am in no way, trying to invalidate what you or Rost is saying. It comes down the intended usage. Because of the stated use, is why I have presented the info I have. If he would have never mentioned HD/SD then quite a bit would change.

issac, you need to define in your mind what it is you want to do with it, and then choose from there.

Charles, I liked your post but one thing I've learned on these gun boards is try to never speak in absalutes. Use some "IMHO's" and "I personally like's" and it won't sound so controversial.

Terry

We probably all sound like our thoughts are the only right ones....

Had I to run combat only my choices would be slightly different.

But for home defense they won't vary much. While I have not had an in home encounter, thank God, I have ducked out the door more than once with both a 16 inch and a 26 inch AR for coyotes, and moving through the house and our NARROW halls and sharp corners the 26 isn't much of a hassle. Now if you expected someone to grab the muzzle as you came around a corner could be different, IE combat is different. Home defense you will only generlaly encounter some stupid idiot wiht no training or plans.

Thats where specific to more or less combat is often said, but generally not meant. Unless you are LEO or Military(and if so we thank you for your service whomever is reading this) and do a lot of specific training most folks won't train much for home stuff, but will do a LOT more plinking/varminting....

As to respnosible for pistol or shotgun rounds, yep, for all of them. Its why I prefer that I never have to fire a handgun as a civilian at another.... and why I prefer a shotgun, because I don't carry stuff that will penetrate far in the house, preferring that my first hadnful of rounds is birdshot, which is fine if needed up close but doesn't go far. Even in the street...

Let me introduce you to the box of truth.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

I suggest at least the first 3 links on the page.

Didn't see any of the correct 223 projectiles used in those tests but may have missed it.

While I can't argue with street facts, I still find it hard to believe that at 15 feet or less, house distances, that a load of birdshot would not penetrate. I've seen deer killed with dove loads a few times. Also hogs up close when dove hunting. Of course anything is possible and I'd also be willing to bet the guy still walking after a 12 gauge to the chest was doped up and anything less than a CNS hit would end up the same. Sometimes not all the data is given. Either on purpose or by accident.

We used to carry our rigged slugs hunting... moly wads or mile or more...cut the shell in half on a dove load and boy have I seen more than a few deer shot with that load over the years.

Jeff

No dog in this fight but this is a good lower to start with

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../1/FS_New_LMT_AR15_Lower_ergo_gri#UNREAD

I'll leave the fighting, if it is that, to the experts and friends here who are providing me a decent and appreciated education. I guess learning is painful...and expensive!

Thanks for the link,Keith. With that lower you recommended, is changing uppers to other calibers an easy task?