Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Toby Bridges latest blog

so lets see you stated a couple pages back that the reason i didnt like you was becouse im a traditionalist LMAO . and just who is injecting that thought again into this discussion . but ha keep right on going becouse IMO your showing folks here just why i hold you in such low regaurd . as i said in PM alittle above RW but not far above .
you know what my real oppenion is . YOU need the fight to continue between modern at traditional becouse with out that fight . your simply are just another dude on the block and have no real way to stay in the public eye .

again your statment above shows a complete lack of understanding of the states themselves and the the people of those states and just who does what .

do you realize how modern muzzleloading was accepted here in idaho ???
you didnt have a hand in that . you can think the traditional organzations for that . see you seem to forget traditionaist established the hunt to begin with and in 1991 potitioned the commission to accept modern rifles as a way to boost numbers and get more hunts . Now we have less oppratunity . the F&G told all of us that would be the case . but you didnt get it . so now we have what we have .
thank you Toby . im sure we all are better off .

do you know who got conicals aloud ?? again you can thank traditional organzations for that . in fact mentioning that you know how many modern groups i see at the commission meetings ?????? 0 ,, a few individuals .

do you know who is responcable for comiling information and potitioning for what hunts we have in this state ???? bet you dont .
maybe if folks would get organized and actualy do something with the department concerning getting hunts , we would have more . OHHH but im sorry those days are now gone . last year pretty much did an end to that .


now i could be wrong but i believe that the current BG manager has 15 years of exsperiance with both weapons system.
i can also tell you that in the last 2 years there has been 4 courses given to the commission and members of the managemnet dept of this state . 2 specificly on modern muzzleloading and 2 on specificly traditional muzzleloading . but i bet you didnt knwo that eather .
now what i can tell you with all 100% certanty is that in the fall of 2006 when i was ask to adress the commission on muzzleloading for the spring of 2007 meetings , i gave each commissioner a 25 page packet on modern muzzleloading . i didnt state one word , you did . infact between you and RW you two gave them all the information needed . after all , who am i to insenuate such information or base of knowlage

i also included a short trip to your high proformance muzzleloading site .
the rather enjoyed the artical on the 300 yard bull and some of your write ups on projectiles .
i then had to laugh when the next meeting someone should up with that photo copy of a Rigby rifles and then proclaime it as proof of the long distance ability of traditional muzzleloading .
BUT someone forgot to tell them that the rifle they showed was also not legal in this state and never has been for hunting ,
ohh ya that was good

so as far as quality of information LMAO ohhh ya they got some of the best around .




WOW could you stretch that any further LMAO
again even at a fedrial level you fell short .
would you like to post that info our should i post it for you ?




and just what qualifies you to make such a statment , lets see the numbers . you sure do use alot of words like most , all and majority . so far i havent seen anything to back it up
but again thats tipical , modern TB

you want me to post a copy of that Pole i mentioned above ? i can . ill have to scan it in but i should have time to do that tomarrow



of that there is no doubt . but as for here it doesnt mater . becouse the " I just want more time in the woods crowd " just shot themselves in the foot in a very large % of this state . the rest are draw only . so if you want to hunt muzzleloader , that week or so is your only time your going to get .and that small area is all your going to hunt .
next step is no season at all . but ha i guess you think you have more pull then the general centerfire hunters who are now asking WHY .
again , thank you Toby . YOU THE MAN!!!!!
im thinking BY BY muzzleloading seasons here in idaho maybe in the next 5 years but more like ten




when ??? LMAO
now who are you playing again . not me .

in fact i dont have an issue with you making money of of muzzleloading . heck i make money of of muzzle loading .
but with you , it always seems like the product you support the most are the ones who pay you in someway .

as to the rest.
again
1) you stated idaho does not allow scopes and thus we discriminate "WRONG"
2) you now say that most hunters in Idaho want scopes for muzzleloading " based on poles " again "WRONG"
you throw words like MOST . A majority . Largest %.
By who�s polling do you get that OPPENION ?? By what state level information to you compile that information .
Please post the actual state documentation to support that please


oHH so now it you two is it . guess thats what i get for being civil to the likes of you .

yep i would agree its a lossing battle . but what you just dont get is that its muzzleloading in general . both traditional and modern .
tell me TB , where is Knight ? closed up . why ? where is white ?? closed up .

Savage??? . it would seems that their perant company seems to be thinking their muzzleloading section is a liability . but maybe you didnt read that memo . i posted it here on this board in a discussion about Knight . so how long will they hang on ???
TC?? sold out to S&W if that was good or bad , only time will tell .
CVA ????

tell me toby just how much does it now cost folks on this board to shoot ???
i remeber an artical that you wrote >> im thinking it was muzzleloader ?? 1979 ?? 80 there abouts where you recommended practice , practice practice .
tell me how much practice can these folks here do with projectiles that cost 20+ for a dozen ???
not to mention each time you recommend another powder , its higher in cost then the last

IMO the losing fight is muzzleloading in general and the cancer , well i think you know who IMO is the cancer of all that .


but ha ,again thats just me , so keep on talking

ill just keep working away at my year and a half back log of rifles .
smile , shake my head and say , ; what ever you think toby , you the man . right there boy , yep your a # 1 class A act

soooo anyway , im pretty much done here . i have had my say .
but i do have one question for you , while your here that i would like you to answer for me . its bugged me for some time .

on that savage that blew up on you .
why was it that you did not change out the breechplug when you notice the gas cutting to its face and forward shoulder ??????.
not pointing any fingers here or bliam .
i would just like to know

First question is, how do you know what the majority of hunters in all these states want? Do you have any polling data to support your claims? If, so, let's see your data, or at least a reference where we can look it up.

If not, you should quit claiming to know what the majority want.

If you do have these data, my answer is still "so what." Opinion polls don't tell you what's best for the sport, or for the country for that matter. I suppose you believe that since Barack Obama won the election, he's by definition the right choice, the best man for the job?

How do you respond to that? I guess I'll wait another good while for your repsonse, you still haven't responded to my earlier question; I'll post it again so you don't miss it this time:





Anyway, opinion polls mean nothing in terms of what's best for the state, the resource, and hunters; if you polled hunters in Colorado and asked them whether they thought they should be able to easily draw a bull tag in GMU 201, the overwhelming majority would say "yes." And if they got their way, unit 201 would go down the tubes as a trophy unit.



Very apt analogy since "Survivor" is mindless claptrap, yet wildly popular--to use your own reasoning, "it's what people want, so it must be the right answer."



Let's see, you're on a self-described crusade to fight for a "right" (look up the definition of the word, use of telescopic sights during the early ML seasons doesn't quite make the cut like free speech and assembly), and it's a "right" that people already have, as far as using scopes on muzzleloaders in Colorado. And we're the "hardheads?"

Also, I never claimed you were getting rich off this--maybe you're just not that good at what you do?

Anyway, I'm going to Canada for a few days and then fishing with my son this weekend. I'll catch up with you guys later.

Are you so stuck in your own little world that you are out of touch with others? Or is it that you just listen to your own thoughts...and never to anyone elses?

I have done hundreds of muzzleloader seminars around the country, and share as much as I can about muzzleloader hunting and muzzleloader performance. And at each of those seminars, I always take a few minutes to poll the 200 to 400 people attending (sometimes 4 seminars a weekend). And when the issue of scopes on muzzleloaders come up...70 to 80 percent of the hunters attending are in favor of scopes during the muzzleloader seasons.

In Wisconsin, polls conducted by the DNR have even shown that between 70 and 80 percent wanted scopes during the muzzleloader season - mostly because these hunters need a scope. Now, finally, those hunters are going to have that right.

Next door in Minnesota, at meetings conducted by the DNR, between 70 and 80 percent of muzzleloading hunters have voiced their need & want of a scope during the muzzleloader season. Unfortunately, that DNR still has its head stuck up some dark hole, and continues to deny them that right. But with things changing next door in Wisconsin...things will also change in Minnesota. (Partially thanks to a little legal intervention.)

Smokepole & Captchee, you two might live in Colorado...but I would venture to say that I hear from more Colorado muzzleloading hunters than either of you...and there is a modern uprising coming your way. More people hunt the Colorado muzzleloader seasons with a modern in-line than with a rifle of traditional design - and they're getting tired of regulations that keep their sport in the dark ages.

In 2008, I received slightly more than 15,000 muzzleloader related e-mails - and responded to every one. The number one topic/issue...scoping a muzzleloader. And for every e-mail I received squalling about how the muzzleloader seasons should remain traditional, and how scopes should never be allowed...I received a dozen or more that thought otherwise.

So hang in there boys, change is coming your way. Your side worked awfully hard to eliminate in-line rifles...and failed. Your side continues to fight better performing saboted bullets and scopes...and that too will see change as the 90-percent modern side of our sport continues to swing more and more in that direction.

I know, you claim to be both modern and traditional...but your attitudes say otherwise. Me thinks you talk out of both sides of your mouths.

Toby Bridges
NORTH AMERICAN
MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

LMOA , you dont listen or read do you . So now I live in Colorado
Are you sure its no Alabama ?:/

i dont claim to be both . i calim to be traditional .

With you its always about more for you . You never listen . As soon as somebody give concessions or reaches a compromise , you push for the next . It never ceases and many times that push is seen in the very next years proposals
First it was a need for conical over RB, synthetic over Black powder . gottat have em . So people reach a compromise. Then the next year you push for something more . Now its sabots and scopes , and smokeless .
Then what ? Whats left toby ??/ you just don�t seem to realize there is nothing left but the total removal of the established seasons . Myself , I cant say at this point that I don�t or wouldn�t support such a move .
What will you do then ??? Fight the center fire crowd to keep them out ?
See right now , here in Idaho ,,,,I think we have a reasonable compromise. Modern rifles are aloud under restriction . No better then traditional rifles and no worse . Sure some traditionalists arnt happy but neither are many modern folks . But it is a middle ground that many folks agree upon .
I guarantee you that with the current regulations we have , disallowing scopes , sabots , 209 primer and smokeless powder , there is not a modern rifle on the market that will out shoot a traditional one . Be that in accuracy or range
But then people like you have to come in , from out of state and stir the pot to the point , no one can get along . Why ? So that companies that suport you can get a large market ??? Sure seems that way .

Never mind that all you want or could want , is aloud for the largest % of hunts in this state , yet your not happy with that , you have to push to get those same things accepted in what little muzzleloading hunts there are here . When you don�t get it , you point fingers , and shout blame and proclaim a fight .
Why ?
again , Im thinking you have to have keep up this fight even when there is no base for it .
an enemy is needed because without it there is no base for you . Case in point this very thread which was started about your blog and you . Yet you have once again managed to twist it away from you and into a modern vs. traditional argument.
To bad because you have a chance here to change peoples views . Instead you have chose just to enforce those opinions

Toby;

You never have addressed the sponsorship and compensation question. Why not come clean and say "yeah, I push for this because it's in my financial interest to do so"? Making money ain't a bad thing, you know.

BTW - use of a scope during any season isn't a "right" (look up the legal definition of such); it's a privilege, and calling it anything else is foolish.

One really...Really...REALLY big difference between you and I Captchee seems to be that you work hard to prevent any new growth in muzzleloader hunting...while I work in the other direction.

New participation is what spurs new growth in opportunities.

But, I have a feeling that you and smokepole work diligently to prevent new participation simply to keep the odds of being drawn for a Colorado muzzleloader tag a bit more in your favor.

Toby Bridges
NORTH AMERICAN
MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

Likewise, your argue that the hunters "need" the scopes, is hollow. If they are that poor with irons, they need more practice, not optics.

Further, your "poll" numbers are unconvincing, as they are biased, unsubstantiated, and unsupported. Data from a scientifically valid poll would be welcomed, though, if you can provide such.

What the heck do you mean..."come clean"?

What do you do for a living...and do you do it for nothing? I seriously doubt it.

I've worked in the "industry" for 35 years...because I love it. Probably could have made a hell of a lot more money doing something else (did for a while)...but muzzleloading guns and muzzleloader hunting are what are closest to my heart.

If you hate what you do for a living...I'm sorry. I love what I do...even if the pay honestly sucks.

Toby Bridges

As for you other comment about hunters need "more practice"...I don't disagree. But one cannot use what they cannot see.


NORTH AMERICAN
MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

you just cant get over it can you .
your so sure you know all and it has to be what you say . well again you are wrong .

Once again , you need a fight , you have to have it . it�s a simple must

The ones who "can't see" irons are damned few and far between. You know that to be a red herring, as does anyone else.

I'm a financial adviser. I very much like what I do, and make a good living doing it. You represent various manufacturers within the muzzleloading firearms industry, correct? Specifically those that have a vested interest in the utilization and expanded utilization of in-line and "modern" muzzleloaders, correct?

Nothing wrong with that, but you are avoiding a straight answer to those questions like the plague, and I can't figure out why.

If my guesses are correct, then it goes to a logical conclusion that while you may truly hold muzzleloading near and dear to your heart (and that I don't doubt at all), your tack and objectives are not wholly altruistic; you will benefit if your objectives are met in a financial manner. That doesn't undermine your position, but it does color it, and thus any evidence you present would be far more useful and well received if it were unbiased. To date, that hasn't been the case.

Look, I just hunt, and I enjoy it. I use everthing from a SS, synthetic stocked, customized, scope (with tactical turrets) mounted centerfire to a cedar-shaft, feather-fletched arrow flung by an instictively aimed recurve, and just about everything in between. If scoped in-lines are cool; I use 'm. The same can be said if it's irons only, PRBs, and soon-to-be flints only. The variety can make it fun, as can the challenge.

I hope you are aware that Louisiana now permits scoped, single-shot, breechloading rifles of "antique design and caliber" during their BP season (NEF Handi-rifles in .45-70 are now the norm), and that NC may well abolish any "special seasons", opening deer season all at once and to all weapons for the entire season. The rationales were the same in both states, and two-fold: the first to increase participation and decrease deer populations, and the second was in response to the increased modernization of BP firearms. On the second point, both states found it to be so near a modern rifle in current utilization and form that any distinction from season-to-season was rendered irrelevant. I mention this as a "be careful what you wish for" caveat to your efforts; you may just outsmart yourself.

You are right, however, that it is increased participation that we truly need. That should be our unified goal. Outside of that, I'm all for keeping a little variety, and keeping the factional in-fighting to a civil minimum.

You sure about this? I heard that it failed to come to vote.

Yeah NC still has designated seasons. This is from the 2009 - 2010 regs.

EASTERN DEER SEASON
Bow and arrow: Sept. 12 to Oct. 9
Muzzleloader: Oct. 10 to Oct. 16
Gun: Oct. 17 to Jan. 1
CENTRAL DEER SEASON
Bow and arrow: Sept. 12 to Nov. 6
Muzzleloader: Nov. 7 to Nov. 13
Gun: Nov. 14 to Jan. 1
NORTHWESTERN DEER SEASON
Bow and arrow: Sept. 12 to Nov. 13
Muzzleloader: Nov. 14 to Nov. 20
Gun: Nov. 21 to Dec. 19
WESTERN DEER SEASON
Bow and arrow: Sept. 7 to Oct. 3 and Oct. 12 to Nov. 21
Muzzleloader: Oct. 5 to Oct. 10
Gun: Nov. 23 to Dec. 12

My dad is 71 and still hunts with a sidelock with irons. He hates inlines. There are plenty of older hunters that can use irons or peeps.

Ya better take that one to an optometrist...I'm sure you'll learn different.

Older eyes for 70 or more percent of those over age 50 don't work the same as they did at 30 to 40.

That's a fact.

Toby Bridges
NORTH AMERICAN
MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

Nice dodge on everything else posted.

No one ever said that the eyes remained the same, only that your assertion that the "majority" you keep mentioning that "couldn't see irons" was bunk. You know that, and your defense of your position is weak.

Ad hominem retorts won't win your position. If you truly cannot support your position and defend your assertions any better than what you're showing, perhaps your position isn't as strong as you'd like to have folks believe, and maybe that financial incentive is stronger than you'd want to admit.

I hope I'm wrong on that last paragraph, as you do represent hunting and muzzleloading to a wide audience, but thus far, you're really not giving us much to grab on to.

Crowrifle;

I stand corrected. It will come to a vote in the next session, though, and as I knew last year, there are enough votes to pass it.

Ive pretty much hunted game units from trinidad, all the way up to steamboat springs area and south of it around Vail. You know how many muzzleloader hunters ive ran into that bitched about having to use open sights?






None.

Dad wears glasses now. A set of Lyman sights and he hits where he shoots, targets or deer. How do argue someone can't see when they hit the targets on the range and bring a dead deer in?

Originally these special seasons were set for primitive weapons because of the difficulty of their use and difference to modern firearms. The line doesn't exist today.

Stop being so lazy...do some research and you'll see the truth. Or, are you afraid of the truth?

There's a reason why the Department of the Interior accepted the complaint filed against 15 state game departments for refusing to allow muzzleloading hunters to use scopes on muzzleloaders during muzzleloader season - and that was because it violateS the rights of those who need such sights to be able to participate in these seasons.

And whether or not you know it, the DOI demanded that each of those states make provisions for those who do. Smart state wildlife agencies, like Georgia, Nebraska, Kansas and Wisconsin were forced to realize that such a large percentage of those over 40 do indeed need to use a scope for proper shot placement. That now brings the number of states meeting the needs of ALL muzzleloading hunters to 38 (39 counting Montana which lumps muzzleloading with archery and handguns for limited range Restricted Weapons hunts)...and just 11 who do not.

I'd say getting four states to reverse their "no scopes" muzzleloader regs in two years is a pretty good track record. What have you done to make the sport of muzzleloading more appealing to more hunters?

If you want more to grab onto...get off your lazy butt and start doing your research.


Toby Bridges
NORTH AMERICAN
MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

Look up "rights", Toby. Use of a scope, ain't a "right". And, as a trained attorney, I do have a fairly good grasp of what that word means in a legal sense.

Now, how about addressing the other points that you have consistently avoided.

And, as for "getting off your lazy butt", how about taking your own advice and finding some actually verifiable data from scientifically valid polls to back up your assertions? Or, are you too afraid to do so?

I'll reiterate the salient points, since you obviously have a problem with comprehension: