Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa How does it feel?

take it up with the surgeon, just repeating what he said

to say i aint all that interested in seeing(feeling?) what kinda shape im going to be in when i hit 50 is an understatement......

+1 Atkinson. Dbone is just yanking everybody's chain. Not sure it even warrent's a response.

rej

Safariman, Thanks and god bless you also! Hatari, I may have confused the question with some emotion. Thanks. MTgunnar, that�s what I�m doin. Thanks for the story of your hunt. Medicman Thanks. Mr.atkinson, I agree our sport is under attack! That is why I did not like that video. I do get emotional about it and think that when they (we) put things like this on the TV it does not bode well for OUR sport. You are right again I am a wolf! But, not in a sheep�s clothing. You have some valid points about the hunter and if that is the case I would like it if they state the facts or show a different hunt altogether. By the way I know what they do with the elephant after the kill, I can read! The purpose was to gain some knowledge and I did that. Thanks I also gained some insight on personalities of people who post on here. I have been reading for a long time now thanks again. +1 for REJ
D

Dbone,

We gainded some insight on your personality also. Still, I wonder what your objective is in your original post.

Perhaps a person is "fat" because of genetics. One of the heavy weight champs from another venue came to the Ultimate Fighter. He excesizes with the rest and beats most and yet he is still "fat". I bet he could outwalk you any day if you two were to test.

Ringman, Are you a fighter or just a watcher? and remember to walk in the light.
D

I have a fair bit of elephant hunting experience. Some hunts I was in good shape, some ok shape and a couple poor shape. I hunt elephants when I can, regardless of whether I've had or will have the opportunity to get fit. My work schedule limits my time to stay properly fit. (See JJ Hack's excellent post on that topic.)

My best elephant hunts, from most perspectives, are when I'm fit, but any elephant hunt is better than none. My largest elephants were taken on hunts where I was moderately fit, just the luck of the draw really. Most are endurance tests with miles and miles of walking cross country or on tracks. No matter how fit, the dawn to dusk schedule, the walking, the heat, at times stress, will wear you down but you keep going. If your hunt is long enough, you begin to rebound and get fitter with more and increasing endurance about week 2 1/2 to 3. Not many of us will have the opportunity for three or four or five week elephant hunts. I've been lucky there.

Some elephants have come easy, some really difficult, but all hunts have their hardships. The easy elephant on, say day ten, would have been proceeded by nine tough days...

Actually killing a bull elephant can be anti-climatic. Especially when your brain shot is true.

As far as gutting and skinning an elephant, I have pitched in when time was tight. It's best done by a team of experience guys. As far as being labor to help carry out meat, hides, etc, I've pitched in many times when it would help. But a hunter should recall that his job, his contibution to the team effort that a safari is, in particular a dangerous game safari, is to hunt. It makes little sense to help a team of skinners and drivers carry hides, ivory and meat out when it leaves the hunter too tired to hunt at 100% the next day - true of both PH's, trackers and clients.

JPK

Makes perfect sense. I've never done anything larger than moose or a handful of caribou alone. The next day hardly feels like a hunting day after that.

Wow! JPK excellent answer. Thanks to all and my apology to all that were affronted. It did not look good on the TV and I got emotional.
D

Dbone,

When my daughters were growing up, we didn't have a T.V. About the time the last turned sixteen, I bought a T.V. for T.V. sports. You know how many sports a fellow could watch? I limit the viewing to a few hours on Sunday with my dad. Also, I get the UFC pay-per-view everytime. How can I be a Christian and watch fights? How can I be hunter and a Christian? How can I like fast cars and be a Christian?

As far as walking in the light:

I hope the folowing makes sence to you. I can't get more recent than the following.

Yesterday (10/12/09) a fellow came into the grinding room where I work. I have never had a conversation with him before. He shocked me with,
"God is pleased with you. He's not finished with you yet, though, but He is pleased with you."
"I am very glad to hear that. I have been concerned about how I am talking about the Lord with people. I am not eloquent. at times I'm even harsh," I told him.
"You have or will have a healing ministry. Did you know that?"
"No," I told him. Then I informed him of instant and near instant healings I have seen over the last thirty-five years.

He went on:
"You are not here to sharpen tools. You know when you sharpen steel, it doesn't want to be sharpened. It sparks and resists. The same thing is happening to the people you come into contact with. That's why you have been rejected in Christian circles. Just keep doing what you are doing."
"How long have you been a Christian?" I asked.
"I have been a Christian all my life," he flatly stated.
"You mean you never had a conversion experience?"
"When I was two years old my mom prayed with my sister to recieve Christ into her heart. When they finshed, she asked if I would like to also. I prayed and still remember it. I guess that is as near a conversion experience as there is in my life."

About fifteen years ago I wrote a book And These Signs Will Follow. It is available from www.amazon.com. All of the folks in the book are real. Only a couple didn't have thier names changed because we are close enough friends. I didn't ask any of them if I could tell their story in the book. That's why their names are changed.

The healings and miracles have continued. I started another book called Yes Answers. It includes many more gracious "Yes" answers from the Most High through the Glorious Name of Jesus.

I just ran across this post by Ivan Carter on AR. It says a lot about elephant hunting:

"a lot of people ask me why elephants ...

here is as close as i can come to covering those reasons ..i am in johannesburg airport between a safari in tanzania and one in zimbabwe , what better to do in a four hour wait !! i will add pics when i get to a faster internet connection ..


I could feel the sunscorched ground heating the soles of my feet , a trickle of sweat slowly creeping down my spine �my hatband was wet , we had left the vehicle almost 6 hours ago , the giant circular footprints, their cracks showing that it was indeed an old elephant that had left his sign in the roadside dust. Now, many miles and several hours later the sound of a branch cracking had stopped us dead in our tracks �the wind was good , directly in our faces as we waited , ears cupped poised to get a direction on the next crack �seconds became minutes and there it was , not loud but clearly audible the trackers moved to the back, and I walked into the front, Justin right behind me, his rifle ready, taking care to be quick but quiet.

Like a ghost he appeared in front of us , a massive old elephant bull , intently feeding on a recently felled acacia tree. We were standing at about 30 yards, the wind, fickle in the heat of the day suddenly cooled the back of my neck and five seconds later he swung his huge head towards us , raised it to look down his nose at us and then boldly walked in 15 yards trying to see where or what we were, a movement from behind us and he locked on �rushed forward a further five or 6 yards and trumpeted ..swinging his huge head from side to side , deciding what to do .

Our hearts were racing , he had but one full tusk at most 40#, his working tusk a chipped and scarred memory of what it once was � we needed to treat this just right in order to let him go , at ten yards the ball was in our court .

I took a step forward and raised an arm above my head , instantly he recognized us and came in ,shuffling and kicking dust - I shouted and waved my arm while taking a step forward , the elephant just 6 yards in front of me �HEY COME ON !�

He bowed is head and at the same time took a backward step, whew, I knew it was over �several seconds passed , I took another step and he turned and shuffled off , not actually all that scared from the encounter ..

Justin grabbed my shoulder � �that was incredible� his face shining �that�s what I like and that�s what I came for�

Hunting elephant is far more than just killing one, it�s the many many approaches, experiences like we had just had that if you are lucky will happen several times on a hunt �and as you hunt you will realize that every moment spent around these beasts , the largest animals on the face of the planet is a special moment �moments when you truly interact with them and when the time comes and you find �the� elephant every time you touch your ivory you will be magically transported down a lane filled with elephant memories .

Whether your elephant is 30 pounds a side or 60 pounds a side it becomes irrelevant when compared to the magical elephant moments that keep us coming back for more time and time again. Simply being close to an animal that is aware of ones presence and then having the outcome hinge on your next reaction is what makes elephant hunting so unique.

The hunt itself , the classic hunt that everyone dreams of , hours of following skilled trackers as the move sometimes seemingly just on a sixth sense following miniscule sign on the ground �many parts of Africa an elephant hunt is as traditional as it every was , there is no easy way of doing it and hours of following tracks , sometimes only to lose them , other times to be betrayed by fickle wind with just the sound of departing elephants as a reward for all your hours of work �but when it goes right and that�s more often than not and after hours you find yourself within range of your quarry , unsure of what ivory he is carrying , its an incredible moment as you surmise , hope and wonder what ivory he is carrying and its always with great anticipation , that you raise your binos for that first clear look ! without our trackers , in my case Bashop is my right hand man , I would not have had even a small portion of the successes I have and I owe it mostly to him , and his predecessors .. we are firm friends , friendships built on amazing moments , I owe my life to him and his to me as we have gotten each other out of some pretty close jams over the years �they say a PH is only as good as his tracker and I couldn�t agree more ..

Then of course there is the ivory , the silky smooth feel , like silken cr�me, its what has fascinated man for centuries , leading in some places to the demise of elephants themselves , be it billiard balls ,intricate Chinese carvings, piano keys or an elegant trophy capped in precious metals on display for people to admire, ivory is something one simply cant get enough of ..

I find myself at times just longing to touch , polish and stroke the gleaming white shafts , be it seconds after a trophy has been taken or years later in someones trophy room , the feel is still the same , somehow cool and warm at the same time , almost like it has a life of its own , the fine grain within , the delicate dirt filled cracks on the outside �

100 Pounders and even those approaching that number are largely a thing of the past , however the memories , the hunt , the anticipation , the miles of travel and sweat, despair and hope that go into an average day of elephant hunting will always be there ..thats what keeps me coming back ..

Real men don�t cry they say, yet its not uncommon after literally years of dreaming , just as much time saving , often hundreds of miles of walking and many many experiences later , when you come face to face with such a huge and majestic animal , your blood runs thick , your heartbeat clearly audible in your ears ..the crash of your double rifle and its all over �. The next few minutes will be some of the most emotional you can possibly have in hunting as you admire the beast, largest animal to walk on the planet�everything comes flooding to the surface and before you know it you realize yes , real men do cry and this is a moment worth crying over.

The lord has blessed me with the privilege of hunting way more than my share , I am grateful for that and I cherish my moments around these beasts �One day I will own my own set of ivory, collected with my double rifle, and within those tusks will be the memories of the hundreds of people from every walk of life , people who actually enabled me to make a living doing what I love to do and after sharing moments of deep fatigue , extreme excitement and everything in between , collected the ultimate African trophy with me . Weather they are 30 pounds or 70 pounds each they will be so much more to me than just a trophy.

As you plan your next big game safari �be it for elephant , buffalo or one of the big cats be sure to chase the experience as much as the trophy , that�s what its all about �of course the trophy is what you take home but it�s the experiences and memories that make the trophy so valuable to you !
May the wind stay true for you
Ivan Carter

'may the wind stay true for us'"

JPK

Well said, Ray. My sentiments exactly.

I just completed a buff hunt in Tanzania a few months past. I had a great hunt, a classic solitary duggaboy stalk, and I hurt myself coming out of camp enroute to town, so I may never return to Africa. I took that buff at age 66 when I could walk ten hard miles a day and put 500 rounds through my rifle in the months leading up to the hunt. Now, I can barely walk across the room. But if I heal up, you can bet your ass I'll be back at least one more time into the thorn, looking for another duggaboy.

Making derogatory comments about guided African hunting after watching a 20 minute video only demonstrates total ignorance of the hunt, the game and the environment.

Mouth shut; eyes and ears open, is my suggestion.

Just like in "real" hunting, every African hunt is different.

On my elephant hunt in Zimbabwe, I spent 4 NIGHTS hunting elephants. They were crop-raiders and therefore legal to hunt at night.

We would set around the campfire and around dark, drums would start beating. This was how the local people informed us that elephants were in the crops. We would then load up and drive down the track, until we spotted fresh tracks crossing the roads. If the tracks seemed large enough we dismounted and started tracking the elephants in dark.

Let me tell you, just moving quietly through the African bush at night is not for the light-hearted. In this area we had spotted black rhino, vast herds of buffalo, and last week a child was killed by a leopard as she was walking down this very road on her way to school. Cobras, mambas, and other dangerous snakes abound. My PH told me had been bitten in the calf by a python in this area while night hunting earlier that year. The trackers had to cut the python's head off to free the PH.

Eventually we would catch up to the feeding elephants. Going only by sounds (and feeding elephants do make a lot of noise), the trackers would try to identify the number and location of each elephant. This was very important, because if we moved into the middle of the herd and was detected by scent or when I took a shot, we were in real trouble.

Eventually, I would make out several dark, garage-sized elephants all around me. The PH would then turn on a very old night vision monocular and attempt to judge the ivory. If no shootable bull was present, we would back out slowly and start again.

I can gaurantee you that four nights of this is some of the most intense hunting a person will ever experence in their liftime.

The bull I finally shot (about 60lbs a side), was spotted in a big field about 200 yrs away, as we were driving to a waterhole at about 4:00pm. We stopped and the PH decided this was the bull we wanted.

The bull immediately took off at an ambling run, as soon as it heard us stop.

To my amazement, the PH and trackers (and myself) took off at a dead run after the bull. We would run until the tracker determined the bull had stopped and then we would stop. We had the wind in our favor and the theory was that when the elephant was running it couldn't hear us, so as long as we stopped when the bull did, we should be able to catch up, unless the bull made it into some heavy bush about a mile away.

This went on for a bit, and then suddenly the bull had stopped behind a small group of trees. We worked are way around until we were even with the bull.

My PH was whispering last minute instructions about what to do if the bull charged. I was in an adrenaline haze, focussing only on the large grey shape about 30 yards away.

Suddenly the bull moved out from behind the trees and squared off in front of us. He would spread out his ears, shake his great head, trumpet, and make little bluff charges of about 6 feet. He would then back off, shaking his head the entire time. To me everything was in slow motion and I was so zoned in to that bull, that everyone and everything around me faded into the sidelines.

Suddenly the bull turned and started to head for the bush. I quickly shot him in the shoulder, right where the ear touches. The impact from the 400grain Barnes solid was amazing. The great animal's body shook and he stumbled from the impact of that first shot.

The PH and I ran to with 15 yards of bull and I quickly fired two more shots into his shoulder. The bull was already toppling over when I took the last shot.

We moved around and approached the bull from his back, and at 4 ft, I put the insurance shot into his spine.

I reloaded and slowly walked around the bull, as the magnificient creature slowly succumbed to death. Just as I reached his head, (careful to stay out of trunk reach), the old bull winked slowly in one eye and as a large tear ran down the side of his face, he died.

Later, the skinners found two old bullets embedded into the bull. One appeared to be from a .303 and one from AK-47. The bull was also missing part of his trunk from a poacher's snare. The PH estimated the old bull to be close to 60 years old. Even today, I wonder about that strange and mysterious life that bull had lived since his time as a calf.

As I look at his tusks and the photos I have of the event, I can't help but think of what strange forces and circumstances brought the two of us together, and decided that I would be the one to end the reign of this fantastic animal.

So I think what I experienced and my participation in the hunt was much, much more than:
"But really on a guided hunt all you have to do is show up and shoot straight."

BH

Great story. The game changes somewhat when you are pursuing an animal than can stomp you into a bloody pulp.

Buffhunter,

You tell a great story. Sounds like a very exciting and rewarding hunt. Congrats too.

JPK

Boddington made a video several years ago where he hunted elephant with Roger Whitall (sp). They showed a lot of the effort of following up several different bulls, walking their legs off to the knees in the heat of the Zambezi Valley. The sense you were left with was one of intense, prolonged effort. When they finally got an elephant, they earned it. There was even considerable time spent filming the skinning and cutting up the elephant, which, though there was a lot of help, was a huge job. The Capstick video on elephant showed much of the effort that goes into the hunt. I have never been to Africa, but elephant hunting looks like an extremely hard hunt. Maybe this video had time constraints or maybe they got lucky and just drove up to a good elephant. I wouldn't count of the latter.

JJHACK - Well said! I am at the stage of life where I still have 4 boys in school. I hope to live long enough to hunt in Africa, but to do so now would be irresponsible. Dbone would probably agree, especially if he is like me and gets the $44K bill every year to keep one at Westmont College. I pray the other 3 choose state schools! My youngest is in jr. high school. By the time he is done with college, I will be on the sunny side of sixty. I try to stay in shape but work comes first. I work a minimum of sixty hours a week running my property management business. I want someone to be able to fill in the gaps when I am ready for Africa. My dream is to take one or more of the boys with me!!!

i am really glad that what is shown on tv about africa and hunting gets torn to pieces for a change. i watch espn regularly for the hunting shows and i am glad that in a world where the lie is seen as the truth that some one still has the guts to make, and show hunting on t.v.

by far the majority of what i have seen about africa hunting on espn was fact based and good t.v. however every now and then something is shown that is mind knombeling stupid. like the guy that shoots elephant with a bow and as soon as he releases the arrow the ph shoots two shots with his double 500. I, as a regular African born and bred hunter finds this useless. no back ground or explanation was given for this( bow and double 500 at the same time). i am no expert on t.v programs but i think it would have been beneficial to give a short explanation for the hunting tactics used here. being a hunter for as long as i can remember i can imagine why this tactic was used. even so this is not something i would do. but as they say in africa every man kisses his wife in his own manner.

i therefore could understand dbones initial reaction to the video. even if it was a bit over the top. but if we as hunters want to ensure a public image of SUSTAINABLE utilisation, then it cant be to much to ask for a t.v program to give a short explanation of the hunt that follows.( such as " the hunt that follows involves an elderly/ill gentleman.)

there is an Afrikaans saying " if you WANT to hit a dog, you will find a stick that is suitable". we as a hunting community should at least try not to supply our opponents with a stick. thus a short explanation would be a good thing.

i want to tell a short story to explain why a little explanation can go a long way to avoid misconceptions. before i tell this story lett me take my own advice and give a short explanation: this is a funny story about misinterpretation on cultural differences, that is ment to support my suggestion about short explanations before showing the hunt.( remember that the first thing you must bring a long to africa is a sense of humour)

this is the story then: i have been watching shows and videos of americans hunting since before apartheid was banned in s-africa. since i was a member of the so called white elite in s-africa and sanctions was always a problem getting to know an american hunter was limited to ph's and hunting lodge owners. one thing we did know in s-africa was: if there was a people that hunted their country as much as us, it was the americans. now a days it is easy to watch american hunting shows, just put on the t.v and select espn or watch the outdoors man on the net. i love these shows and one of my dreams is to hunt hogs and white tail in america. however one thing, i kept seeing on the shows, always bothered me, and as much as i tried to ignore it , it was always in the back of my head. it was the small problem
of grown men/hunters hugging each other constantly after a successful hunt, on these shows. at first i thought this was isolated incidents, but after a while i had to except that the american hunter was more.... "liberal" than your average s-african hunter.

i therefore had my concerns when a friend of mine told me he was dropping his studies and are going to be a full time ph and he is going to focus on the american hunters. he shared my misconception about american hunters but his love for hunting was more than his fears for being alone in the bush with a "liberal" hunter.

not long after this we met an american hunter from TEXAS. after spending 5 minutes in his company we soon realised that this american hunter was not a "liberal" in fact he had better values than we had . so after a day i was comfortable enough to tell him about the "liberal" theory we have about american hunters. needless to say that after a short answer from the texan, i now know the truth. i since came to know a couple of american hunters and have experienced them as excellent hunters good sportsman and true gentleman. one thing i am yet to experience is a liberal american hunter.

heavens know i am the last guy to pass judgement on another human being, but i do know men hugging each other is not that big in the african bush.

this is how quickly a misconception can start. dbone, imho, had the wrong interpretation of the video he saw, AND HE IS A HUNTER. let alone the tree huggers who feeds on half truths and lies.

dbone ,my sugestion is come to africa and hunt and then return and tell of what you have seen. i will put money on it that it would be positive. and when you come dont forget to bring along your smile.


africa greetings

I consider elephant hunting the most difficult of hunts, many times it can be more grueling than a Sheep or goat hunt. I have spent many a bad night sleeping on the track of a bull that decided he needed to be about 100 miles from where I wanted him and sleeping on the track for several days or longer can push you to your limits, especially when the Lions are close and watching, sleep depredation is not good when your walking 20 plus miles per day..Guess that is the reason I don't hunt elephants much..IMO the elephant is a very dangerous animal to hunt.

I love Buffalo hunting more than anything else, I consider it the ultimate hunting, the rush of rushes, it is normally hard hunting but in the end I get to sleep in a bed every night.

I also know that the buffalo can be tenacious towards life and hard to kill, and will fight you to the death on ocassion, and if you keep hunting them you will have to deal with a life or death situation at some point.. I have all the respect in the world for them.

Seems to me you can't stand the fact that somebody has 5 dollars more than you. I could care less about that guy on TV with Craig. He got to go elephant hunt good for him. I am going to be siting on a log waiting for a white tail to come by in about 8 days when the Land Owner season starts here in CT, I have some land, and guess what I know quite a few that can't stand the fact that 80 acres is mine. And I get to hunt it and with a rifle too. Never mind what I had to do to get it and to keep it money wise. Such it is in Socialist America.

LT DAN, I hope some day to take a great adventure to the dark Continent and I will be sure to bring a smile. Thank you for the support. D