Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Ain't cryogenic stress relieving just a bunch of voodoo??

David Tubbs is pretty knowledgeable. He recommends cyro for thin barrels.

Does is make a difference if the barrel is cut rifled, button rifled, or hammer forged in relation to the effectiveness of the cryo? Why?

Does it matter if the barrel was fluted by the maker or the smith, and should I cryo before or after he installs and chambers the barrel? Why?

Would cryo help a fluted, cut rifled barrel? What stresses might it relieve?

If cryo makes the steel machine easier, does it wear faster when it's shot? Do I get 4000 accurate shots instead of 10000 less accurate shots? Why or why not?

Diesel,
You didn't answer my question. What qualifies you to say what cryo does? I guess I hurt your feelings. You have not given me any scientific info. I did not disagree with your claim to have made a few chips. Your opinion is that it is snake oil. My opinion is it makes machining easier. You know I have have made a chip or 2 myself in the last 45yrs. What makes your opinion better than mine. If you know how to use the keyboard, search the net and you can learn a thing or 2.
Do you drive a Dotch, ooh Dodge>\?
Butch

I'm going to bed, this has turned into a pissing contest. I have a good book to read.
Butch

Does sprinkling the barrel with the ashes of a cooking fire from the heart of a successful kill while howling at a full moon help accuracy? Why?

Only for Savages

RDFinn had some good input. Thank you.

As far as hurt feelings Butch,,, You came after me with nothing constructive to add to this except insults (emotionally charged & controlled obviously). It would be nice if you could add something in the way of knowledge besides getting yourself in a wad. And by the way. You never answered mine. It's ok though. I understand the side step. Insulting the name of a good diesel pick up now? WOW! No, I don't have a Dodge Diesel anymore by the way. Ask Maj. Blaine Painter ("Blaine" on the fire) who I've known for a while and has had some of my products.

Onward. I know that lapping in the barrel will help with cleaning as well. The machining process leaves a slight (very, very slight) rough surface to the finish (reason for the break in on a new motor as well). Lapping smooths the surface so nothing can get stuck to it (or as easily any way). It's kind of like running some thing over very fine sand paper (and I mean VERY fine) compared to a glass smooth surface. I'm not sure how cryo would smooth it out inside. It would seem to be harder to smooth out if it did actually increase the RC (hardness) factor a point or two. Just my honest opinion.

I am by no means a barrel maker, so there's no emotional involvement here unlike another, but these were my observation while troubleshooting tool steel problems and failures after such treatments (looking for a better longer lasting service life from it). Just trying to help other avert a possible problem that I have viewed. Not saying it's any snake oil, but I have seen the results of it afterward as I stated in my original post. This is a user be ware thing. I have NOTHING to gain here (but others have something to loose). If they use it before final machining, that's fine (no experience there). Not something I recommend after hand though on any high tolerance steel component (experience here).

It is what it is. Take it for that.

I guess you are going to tell me Philadelphia beat the Yanks last night because that is the way you saw it.
You have still not answered my question. What proof do you have that cryo has no benefit?
Butch

I felt these were valid questions and easily answered by a "metal-urge-ist" or whatever you guys called them...

I'd be scrutinizing the "why" or "why not", more than the answer, or because some guy that can shoot said so, of course....

My question would be "Does it hurt anything to have it done?"

If not the 50 bucks or whatever is pretty small beans in the grand scheme of things. Good night of drinking basically.

You must be a cheap date! LOL...

Really... we're down to "prove it DOESN'T work!"? Cummon? WTF?

I guess I do have to respect the guy that burns his bills on a cryo in hopes of improving performance rather than naming his rifle and having it engraved on the barrel...

Tongue firmly in cheek....

This turned into an interesting thread! I was just half joking when I tossed the question out there.

I truly respect an engineers book learning perspective.
I truly respect a tool makers experience.

Truth has got to be in there somewhere.

But I was thinking too...

50 dollars for pixie dust ain't the end of the world. I might try it if I ever build another rifle. Specially if I get one of those pencil tubes these fellows are doting on.

I think I will try cryo treating my next barrel by paying my ex wife $50.00 to sleep with it.

Didn't say it did or didn't work but I don't know of anyone who says it's detrimental to the rifle's performance and can prove it.

If it gives a guy the warm fuzzies - big deal and 50 or even 100 bones on something like this isn't bad. Not like someone is losing their mortgage payment over barrel voodoo.

I fret it none - in either regard...

No worries... I actually feel the same as you do. If it makes a guy feel better, it will make him shoot better, so go for it. I'm all for the sprinkling/howling at the moon, as it's simply way more fun.

My posts were mostly in jest, but were meant to foster some thought on how it might or might not work on an individual barrel... and to get somebody to actually say "why" it works. Apparently the detailed questions and "why" to back up the claims is what got the crickets going...

As in rifles or human beings?

You got a few marbles rolling around upstairs or what???

You obviously didn't read my finding in my original post. Been reading long?

The CMM we used for measuring had the data, but even if I had it today you would till be a negative person about it because it wasn't rifle barrels we were testing. They were long pass-core rods for mold (among other things). Secondly you wouldn't heed it because this isn't what "Tom, Dick, and Harry has subscribed to.

Where's the PROOF that it doe's work without moving the steel Butch? Where is the proof it stress relieves Butch? Any stress relieving reports like what Metalax puts out Butch? This would convince me other wise. Till then,,,my firearms get Metalaxed (something I know works in which the proof is in the machines print outs).

Save your bucks, and just score a Lilja #1, 6 groove. Mine shoots sub 1/2 moa, and holds it past 450.

To say cryo'ing won't work is the same as saying heat treating doesn't work. Both claims are false.

But, they also don't tell the whole story. Every alloy has an ideal heat treating and quenching depending on the mechanical properties desired of the alloy.

Not every alloy will show an affect of cryo treating, but that doesn't mean that there is no benefit of cryo treatment. It depends on the alloy and the end use.

Diesel guy,
You evidently didn't take reading comprehension. I want you to go back over this thread and tell me what I said about cryo. I said some barrel makers do it and it makes machining the barrels easier. You go on to say that it doesn't stress relieve and you are qualified to say that because you have made a few chips. Don't need no Metallurgist you say. I don't know if it stress relieves, cleans better, or shoots better and I did not claim that. Shaking a barrel may help, but it did nothing for the 2 that I had done.
Now go back over my posts and tell me what else I said about cryo.
Butch