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#3527014 11/30/09
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While I'm leaning heavily toward the 6.5/284 Norma (as per earlier question), I can't get a 30 cal out of my mind, purely from a bullet availabilty standpoint.
Is anyone using and having real good success with the .300 WSM at the longer ranges? I'm a little paranoid about having a cal. thats not presently in military use. Knowing that .308 Win. and 300 win. mags are in use means that .30 bullets should be available. Thanks again for any input!! memtb


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what's military use got to do with it ?

i own 2 - 300 wsm's. my factory winchester (usta be)laminated classic, took a bull elk at 402 yards. i was running a 150 barnes tsx, and it blew right thru him, double lung !

this year, my lilja barreled one took 3 antelopes, 2 over 300 yards out.

very accurate, easy to load for, and lots of get up !


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It sounds like you are searching for a caliber with the best downrange performance. Here is an article on 30 cal bullets vs 7mm written by Bryan Litz. Here is the short version:

30 Caliber vs. 7mm for Long Range

Bryan Litz, Ballistician for Berger Bullets, has authored an excellent article on bullet design, What�s Wrong With .30 Caliber?. This story originally appeared in Precision Shooting magazine, and now can be read on LongRangeHunting.com.

In this article, Bryan analyzes the design of long-range bullets, from .22 to .30 caliber. He notes that while 30-caliber bullets can have very high ballistic coefficients, 30-caliber bullets must be very heavy to match the BCs of the 6.5mm and 7mm projectiles. As the chart below shows, it takes a 240gr 30-caliber bullet to match the G7 BC of a 180gr 7mm VLD. But most 30-caliber shooters don�t use those ultra-heavy projectiles because the recoil is excessive and because it takes a monster cartridge burning lots of powder to drive 240-grainers to optimal velocities. Litz notes: �Heavy recoiling rifles are harder to shoot accurately. Even if a shooter overcomes the mental aspect of heavy recoil, the �system� is more sensitive to minor imperfections in shot execution. This may be another reason that drives .30 cal shooters down to the �middleweight� 190-grain class bullets instead of the proportionally heavy 220-240 grain bullets."

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"Litz concludes that the heavy 7mm bullets are a better choice than the biggest 30-calibers (except in unlimited weight �heavy guns� where recoil is not a factor.) Bryan writes: �Even a moderate 7mm chambering is capable of delivering 2800 to 3000 fps with the heavy 7mm bullets, much faster with magnums. The heaviest .30 cal bullet requires a big magnum just to get to 2800 fps. So the first problem is: you can�t get the heavy .30 cal bullets going as fast as the heavy 7mm bullets! Even if you could get the same muzzle velocities from the heavy .30 cal bullets, it would take much more powder to do it, barrel life would suffer, and you�ve only achieved parity with the 7mm. The various negative effects of the incredible recoil are really just the �nail in the coffin� for the heavy .30 caliber bullets.�"



He has a point which Jon Sundra has been saying for years. Recoil is far less with the 7mms. Don't get me wrong I am not against the 30 cal, I have a 300 RUM shooting the 200 gr Accubonds but I also have several 7mms: 284 win,7 rem mag (2) and a 7 RUM. Just wanted to point out this detail.

Have fun deciding on what your next build will be, then enjoy the fruits of your labor with load development and hunting with it. Lots of fun there.

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Owning and shooting two 300 WSM's and two 6.5-284's light and heavy rifles in each.
Bryan Litz is totally correct, the 7mm would take care of both.

I did choose the 300 over the 7mm because I wanted bigger holes on elk and I chose the 6.5 over the 7mm because I wanted less recoil with the same ballistic performance as the 7.

But if choosing just one rifle the 7 WSM would cover all ground ime.

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When it comes to LR caliber selection for me (target, varmint, and hunting), I choose 6mm, 6.5, 7mm, or 338:

6x47 Lapua, 243 Win, 6-284, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5x55 Swede, 6.5-284, 6.5WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm Rem Mag Imp., 7mm Dakota, 338AX.
A couple of these are not in my hands yet, but soon though grin


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7mm is much better than .30 caliber in most regards. I only use .30s because I can buy ammunition off the shelf. Other than that I have no interest in them. Mostly I use 7mm Mauser and .375HH. I'm finally getting into the long range thing in a big way, and that will be 7RM and .338Lap.

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What are you guys getting for case life with the 300WSM?

Anybody wore one out yet?

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What are you guys getting for case life with the 300WSM?

Anybody wore one out yet?


And that's the trade off, I get great brass life and I have to believe better throat life with a 30 cal over a 7.

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SU-by great are you talking 10+ loadings b4 the primer pockets get weak?

Thx
Dober


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For a little perspective, run the numbers with "best" 7mm bullets, and .30 cal bullets.

Edge goes to 7mm, but it's a pretty small edge. Things like wanting a bigger hole in an elk, or bullet availabity, could negate that edge for a feller...practically speaking...


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Dober, I'm up to 13x and they are still tight.
Trimmed once.

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Trimmed once is amazing and 13 is great as well. The best I've ever done is with my first 340 tube and I regularly got 12-13 b4 I tossed them.

Cool thx

Dober


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This is all new to me but WSM brass appears to be very strong.

My 270 and 257 brass haven't lasted nearly as long.

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8-10 loadings with my .325. I tend to load it hot though.

Sam, watch out for the "bright line o' doom" on those!


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Jeff, what went first on your 325 brass?

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Case body, halfway-ish up, where the Bright Line had been foretelling their Doom for a while <g>...


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SU-by great are you talking 10+ loadings b4 the primer pockets get weak?


Yes Mark, I do. Out of all the cartridges I load for the
300 gives me the best life.

In fact, i buy a lot of once fired cases for less than half the price knowing
i got a good deal.

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Originally Posted by Jeff_O
8-10 loadings with my .325. I tend to load it hot though.

Sam, watch out for the "bright line o' doom" on those!


That is about what I generally saw with my 270Whizzum stuff, too.
I also load em warmish.

Not sure on my 325 yet, as I have not shot it enough to run through 300 cases 8-10 times over!
shocked


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Originally Posted by Jeff_O
"bright line o' doom"


Comes from the full length die, not from loading warm.

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No, it's where the case is stretching (the trimmed brass comes from somewhere, eh?).

I know the line of which you speaketh. 'Tis not the Bright Line o' Doom. grin


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I've been shooting mine for years. I can easily put mine in 6"circle 4 hundred yds with 180 boattail.. Or I should say I use to. But now at 75 years I'm not steady like I use to be.

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Wow dredged up from 13 years ago!

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Originally Posted by Azshooter
Wow dredged up from 13 years ago!

Yeah, I don't believe the op ever ended up with a 300WSM either??


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I still have my Lilja 3 grooved one.
Shooting 165gr solid bases out of it now. It shoots awesome !

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Originally Posted by splattermatic
I still have my Lilja 3 grooved one.
Shooting 165gr solid bases out of it now. It shoots awesome !

All of them I've had have shot very well. My buddy had one that shot like schidt when he got it. It was a copper fouling sob. A pre Portuguese BACO extreme weather. Shot 4" groups when he got it with all ammo he tried. Not cheap ammo either. He got pizzed and just roasted the hell out of the barrel. Sending one right after the other. Supposedly a couple hundred rounds down the tube in one afternoon. Him and a couple buddies. Well, it shoots pretty good now. Surprisingly very well actually, but the other day he was telling me he was having issues with brass splitting at the neck. He asked If I've seen that with any of the 300WSM's I've had and I said NO. He said he thinks its a common problem. I said, I don't think so. I said, you roasted the barrel man.. My current 300WSM doesn't have a scope on it.
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With a Burris FFII 3-9x40 it weighs in right around 7 pounds... ^^^

Its a sweet rifle. Eventually I'll go back to it, but it's a confirmed excellent shooter. It may go on the chopping block as well. My 300 magnum collection is pretty big right now.. Ughh...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I could believe the barrel needed some rounds to smooth out.

I’d also wonder if it’s WW or Federal ammo. Had those same issues with my 270 WSM back in the day.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
I could believe the barrel needed some rounds to smooth out.

I’d also wonder if it’s WW or Federal ammo. Had those same issues with my 270 WSM back in the day.

He's tried Nosler, HSM, Hornady, Winchester, Remington, and some other brands as well. I believe it is most types now that are giving him issues after about the second firing. He's been using Hornady precision hunter as of late.. I'm sure the barrel was rough, plus maybe the bedding was not perfect. After firing that many times in a row, it settled in.. He said he was "either going to burn it out, or it was going to shoot better afterwards". Funny thing is he had to have "new" at the time. I tried convincing him to buy a used rifle here that Josh303 had for sale that was s confirmed shooter, but he didn't want to have anything to do with a "used" rifle. Some people man... I love buying used rifles. I enjoy working on them, fixing them up and accurizing them..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Those Tubbs bullets work good for barrels like that. Plus they’re a pile cheaper.


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Originally Posted by splattermatic
I still have my Lilja 3 grooved one.
Shooting 165gr solid bases out of it now. It shoots awesome !


The FN PBR you sold to selmer here, was that a 300WSM or 308?


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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308
My 3 groove, is a custom on a model 70 la.
Has a real pretty, thumbhole stock.

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Originally Posted by splattermatic
308

Thanks, I couldn't remember. The one I had was 300WSM and one of the best shooting rifles I've had. I regret selling it.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I've killed at least a half dozen mule deer bucks, two 5 point bull elk, a nice pronghorn buck at 550 and a moose at 547 all with a 300 wsm. If there is such thing as an inherently accurate cartridge it's the 300 wsm. I love the way the 215 berger hybrids fly and they hit hard.

A 7mm is the only thing I like better for long range. My 28 nosler shooting 180 elds at 3200 out performs the 300 at long range. I still prefer my 300 wsm for most hunts because it's lighter and shorter barrel handles better.

Bb

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