Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting .308 for elk ?

My favorite saddle gun for elk is a Sav. 99F 308 with 180 gr. Nosler Partitions..It has worked well indeed and mostly I hunt in sage brush hills and sparce timber..It works there...

If I am hunting in my favorite stomping gound in the Selous, and in black timber swamps, then you will see me with my .338, 9.3x62 or 375 H&H and perhaps even a 416 Rem if the mood strikes me..I will shoot the bull when he jumps and goes South or while he is looking at me on rare ocassions, either way I need to shoot him from stem to stern.

I pick my caliber by the hunting conditions..There is no one gun, one caliber solution that suits me. But if I had to pick one gun to do ALL my hunting with in No. America it would be a 30-06 with 200 gr. Noslers at 2650 FPS I suppose.

Ah, the old saw comes out again. Trophy bull elk are harder to kill than just a cow, or it is ok to take a less than desireable shot if it is some old cantankerous 400 B&C bull. Guys that is a load of crap. No two ways about it. If you would not take the shot at a cow,then you shouldn't take that shot at trohpy bull, in fact, maybe less so. I'd sure hate to let a big bull get away wounded from poor shot placement,just the same as I'd feel about a cow getting away.

I use the same cartridge with elk,no matter what I am hunting.

I agree with you saddlesore.

My little Montana 308 may just get taken on an elk hunt or three next fall after reading this thread.

Good post Saddlesore.....

Not you Ray, but sometimes I just can't get the threads straight.

Many find it horrendous to shoot a WT in the azz and post their comments on unnecessary suffering, but an Elk in the timber often has a different set of standards when it comes to posting acceptable shot placement, and no one objects.

Will someone please clarify the difference.

To me front to back or back to front, it's all the same.

"DITTO"

I have never hunted in Ray's Idaho,and he claims the only elk he sees are usually hot footing it away. I'm sure not picking on him here. This may very well be the case for him and others.I have encounterd a lot of those, and find that I can get a good shot off for about 1 out of ten encounters.If I am not confident that I can get a good boiler room shot,the elk walks. Yet I still shoot an elk about every year.

I have never shot one up the tail pipe and can only remember one I shot with a 45-70 straight down the brisket. I did not relish that gutting job.I did kill one elk with a quartering shot as it came towards me. This was in my 7mag days , I screwed that shot up by about two inches,which resulted in a long tracking job.That was at least twenty years ago,and I have not done it since.

I have been along on a few elk kills where bad shot placmenet has ended up in a butt shot elk,taking out a hind leg,or hip.Some of theses were with guys counting on a deep penetration bullet that they thought could achive a fatal raking quartering shot,but they screwed it up. There is sometinhg about watchinhg an elk trying to pull itself away using only the front legs that I find very distasteful. Then going up to it and having it bawl those last dieing gasps with wide frightened eyes as you have to give it one in the back of the haad to kill it. I don't get a thrill out of that kind of kill.

It is a living nightmare where I choose to hunt elk, but it is where the big bulls head at the first shot of the season, it is the black timber swamps on the steep sidehills of Idaho and I know of no other hell hole like some of Idahos worst..

We send one guy in then wait about 10 minutes and send the other in behind him but about 50 yards higher or lower, lower works best and the first guy tends to keep going upwards and the 2nd gun downwards, the elk jump and if the first hunters doesn't get a shot, they circle and hopefull run into the second hunter...It fast and quick shooting and 99.9% going away shots..It works for us, and that's all that counts as far as I'm concerned...

As to the Texas heart shot, its as clean a shot as one can get and puts them down faster than about any shot short of a spine or brain shot, but you must use enough gun..The shot gets the same good stuff as a broadside shot..It doesn't contaminate the meat if you clean them properly and wash them out in a creek or usually with snow, get them quartered and hung..A gut shot animal does not create any problems around here, If you hunt at all you know that you will shoot some in the gut area, no matter what, and if you have not then you have not hunted a hell of a lot, or all your hunting is under ideal conditions such as a tree stand..

Like I said my favorite sage hill elk and deer gun is my 99F in .308 stuck in my saddle scabbard, or my 06 if I am walking, but I won't take shots with too much angle, the last rib is where I will shoot going away with these lighter calibers, I will pass on a goint away shot on elk..It may work, and does most of the time, I have observed that, but I have also seen it fail, so I will pass and try to get closer or another opertunity..

As a side note I realize the 30-06 with a 220 gr. Nosler Partition will penetrate a elk lengthwise, but it does not put them down as hard as the bigger calibers or as fast.

It is my choice to use the right tool for the right job..It is my choice to use the bigger bores when I chose to do so, and the same goes for all. I don't really know what difference it makes to anyone what someone else choses to use, as long as its legal.

BTW, I have seen shot screwed up with both big bore and small bore calibers, bad shooting is just that, nothing more, but I would much rather track a bull wounded by a big bore than one wounded by a small bore, so I don't understand that anology..

It is a living nightmare where I choose to hunt elk, but it is where the big bulls head at the first shot of the season, it is the black timber swamps on the steep sidehills of Idaho and I know of no other hell hole like some of Idahos worst..And if you don't put them down quickly you will end up going down into a divide that you may not be able to climb out of..It is pretty awesome country.

We send one guy in then wait about 10 minutes and send the other in behind him but about 50 yards higher or lower, lower works best and the first guy tends to keep going upwards and the 2nd gun downwards, the elk jump and if the first hunters doesn't get a shot, they either circle of head down into the divide and are gone and you might get a shot, but if they circle then hopefully they will run into the second hunter...It can be fast and quick shooting and 99.9% going away shots..It works for us, and that's all that counts as far as I'm concerned...

As to the Texas heart shot, its as clean a shot as one can get and puts them down faster than about any shot short of a spine or brain shot, but you must use enough gun..The shot gets the same good stuff as a broadside shot..It doesn't contaminate the meat if you clean them properly and wash them out in a creek or usually with snow, get them quartered and hung..A gut shot animal does not create any problems around here, If you hunt at all you know that you will shoot some in the gut area, no matter what, and if you have not then you have not hunted a hell of a lot, or all your hunting is under ideal conditions such as a tree stand..

BTW, 99% of the Cape buffalo killed in Africa are shot going away after the first shot broadside..most are actually killed by the second and third going away shots..they are all eaten, and no big deal is made of it...and yes they bawl before they die with about any shot, if that is distasteful then one should take up golf. killing isn't always a pretty thing contrary to the what some seem to think. I have seen some pretty grusome stuff, especially with elephants, and yes it bothered me, but thats what it is..I have seen deer and elk drown themselves with festered sores and fever from poor shooting or too small a caliber.. I have also seen old bulls that are starving to death lay down and their hide freeze to the ground and then they beat their heads on the frozen ground until it swells like a drum, then they die that slow death that only mother nature herself can bestow on a beautiful animal, so leave all that emotional stuff for the LA times..

Like I said my favorite sage hill elk and deer gun is my 99F in .308 stuck in my saddle scabbard, or my 06 if I am walking, but I won't take shots with too much angle, the last rib is where I will shoot going away with these lighter calibers, I will pass on a going away shots on elk..It may work, and does most of the time, I have observed that, but I have also seen it fail, so I will pass and try to get closer or another opertunity..

As a side note I realize the 30-06 with a 220 gr. Nosler Partition will penetrate a elk lengthwise, but it does not put them down as hard as the bigger calibers or as fast.

It is my choice to use the right tool for the right job..It is my choice to use the bigger bores when I chose to do so, and the same goes for all. I don't really know what difference it makes to anyone what someone else choses to use, as long as its legal.

BTW, I have seen shots screwed up with both big bores and small bore calibers, bad shooting is just that, nothing more, but I would much rather track a bull wounded by a big bore than one wounded by a small bore, I learned that on elk, deer and especially Cape Buffalo many years ago, so I don't understand that anology..

Just another perspective and opinnion that may or may not differ from others, but both sides are worth stating IMO, and let the reader make up his own mind....

I'm sitting here with a bit of time on my hands so I thought I'd try out an analogy. I'm something of an avowed "use enough gun" guy with no trouble conceding that critters can, have and will continue to be taken quickly and cleanly with rifles that don't fell smaller nearby trees at being touched off.

One of my warm weather social activities is golf. Basically as a joke I picked up a used shaft and tracked down the biggest driver head I could find. As it turns out that was 650cc's. So I have this beast assembled and pull it out on the course one day. It pretty much gets the kind of comments I had anticipated and I go up and actually hit the thing...well. I continued to do so. My main golfing buddy borrowed it and within one round had bettered his longest drive ever on two of the holes for that course. In short order he put together one of his own.

Now, what does this club really do that the other clubs we already had in the bag didn't? It's pretty simple really...forgiveness. There's simply more clubface. My "regular" drivers are only 400cc and the longest drive I've ever hit was still with one of the 400's. The key to really knocking a golf ball isn't to necessarily drop a gonad on the swing but to get a good swing on it and hit it right in the sweet spot of the club face. Bigger club face means a bigger sweet spot. The longest shots may not even be longer but it's very likely you'll hit MORE long shots. A lousy swing is still a lousy swing though. With mutant driver I can hit a drive that, with my 400cc clubface wouldn't have been so great but with the 650cc clubface is still in the "nice drive" category.

So, what has this got to do with a hunting rifle conversation? First, let's call a bad rifle shot what it is...a bad shot. I can still slice or hook (usually the latter) that 650 driver into the trees any time I don't put a good swing on it too. If you screw up the tool in your hand, rifle or club, isn't going to just magically fix things. (funny thing though, marketers for both golf and shooting equipment try their hardest to sell you just that idea) On the other hand, if you only mess up a little bit, maybe, just maybe, that bigger stick (club or rifle) could make a difference.

Look, if everything works the way you want it to you could hunt the entire planet with a .308. (or .280/'06/etc) I'm talking deer, elk, brown bear, cape buffalo or elephant. There's literally nothing currently walking the earth that hasn't been killed by somebody using less than a .308. Most people reading this could think of a couple critters that, if they had any say in the matter, would prefer a bit more gun. So it is with some people and elk. I absolutely, positively, will not argue for a nanosecond that I NEED a .340 Wby to kill an elk any more than I need a 650cc driver to hit a golf ball. I feel there is a small, but measureable, margin for error built in with such implements. Neither will save you if you just flat out botch your part of the equation but that's not to say they can't, at least to some degree, swing the odds a tad in your favor if things don't go exactly as you planned.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw this out there. Hope I didn't bore everybody too much.

Based on my limited Elk Hunting experience....I think the hardest part will be finding the Elk to kill with your .308.

Well Ray,if your ego is such that you think watching an elk or any animal die a slow agonizing death because of you,so be it.Sure mother nature inflicts harsh deaths on us all at times.That does not mean I have to add to it.

Gut shot game is edible,but not something I strive for.If I am going to shoot some thing and I want to eat it.I strive to treat tha animal the same as any barnyard animal I butcher.Spilling guts all over it is not one I chose. You mention the eatability of butt shot Cape Buffs. As far s I know,most of that meat is given to local villages that are great full for any meat they get.

The hills,canyons and such of ID are not much difernt than the ones in CO. We have swamps,we call bogs, steep cliffs and God forsaken canyons that are miserable to pack an elk out of. A lot ot times,we just put the safety back on and go find another elk. With myself, I take the shots that will insure a fast humane kill.Doesn't matter if it is a beef out back of the barn,or an elk in a tangle of timber.I don't consider that emotional.I consider it being an ethical hunter.Believe me,I have paid my dues in the elk hunting theater for 40 years plus and have killed my fair share of elk. Having compassion for the animal you kill and how you do it is not a barometer for ones manlyhood.

Yes you are more than welcome to go on and use what ever works for you as all others are.Others have differnt opinions and ways of doing things.Doesn't make the two good or bad.I just disagree with you

Boom.....whack.....dead...a nice .308ed bull on the ground that never went 10 feet after it was hit.

Take your .308 out over the summer and put 500 rounds through it....get deadly with it and go kill yourself a bull with it. It's not rocket science..

Nice bull!

Dober

Yeah, I'd take that.

Now as far as Ray and saddlesore's little debate. I've hunted some country that sounds sort of like Ray's.

I wouldn't start the ball rolling with a texas heart shot. However, if a wounded elk comes by, I'd like to be able to finish off the other guy's screw up, or if I foul it up, I'd like to have gun enough and bullet enough to correct (not undo ... too late for that ... but compensate for) my mistake.

The flip side is elk aren't tame moo cows I'm murdering in a meadow. I don't have all day to wait for a perfect shot when the elk might only be in sight a few seconds. When they're walking behind ferns so the feet aren't visible, going up a critter trail across a gulch stepping and hopping over logs or low drop-offs, weaving around trees, you can't know exactly what the angle is reliably. If y' can't see the feet, you can't know for sure if the shoulder blade or big leg joint have scooched over in front of the vitals. It just doesn't work that way. Can't tell if the elk is hunkered up to hop up or down, bent half around in a C, either one adding 6 inches to a foot of extra bone and meat between the hide and vitals, or standing perfectly broadside as they seem to be.

Do everything you can to make the best happen, but plan what you're going to do if you fail. Anything else is sorta irresponsible.

Tom

Or you can do what my dad does........shoot 'em in the neck......works great for him.


Casey

But guy......the elk has a big sweet spot--and you're not trying to hit the bullet with an elk--you're trying to hit the big sweet spot with a bullet........



Casey

LOL! Yeah, but sometimes critters don't like to stand where I want, like I want, at a distance I want and I hope I've doped the wind right and a better rest for my rifle would be nice...at least the damn golf ball is holding still at a known distance and it STILL doesn't always work out the way I had planned.

My last rifle purchase was in fact a .308, a nice, light and accurate stainless Tikka. Far be it from me to get all "it's gotta be a magnum or it won't work" but I am known to hedge my bets. (most people think a Spyderco Military is a bit big for EDC but hey, I like it)