Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting .308 for elk ?

There was a time when I would have agreed with this 100%. But the older I get the less I agree. Killing is killing; you can�t get away from it. There�s no way to do it that�ll satisfy everyone�s ideal of how/when/if it should be done. Some Texans bait �em in with corn and that might not be the way I want to hunt but who am I to tell them how they should hunt?

I�d agree that we owe the animals as quick and painless a death as possible, but the operative words are �as possible.� If someone tells me that for his kind of hunting the only shots he�s likely to get are at animals going away in thick timber, I�ll accept him at his word and won�t try to tell him he should hunt differently. I grew up in eastern VA where they traditionally run whitetails with dogs and shoot running deer with buckshot. Not because they don�t give a damn about the deer, but because rifles are not legal and because in those pine thickets and swamps you could go days without seeing a deer unless you send the hounds in to chase them out. Sure, a .30-06 round placed behind the shoulder of a broadside standing deer is �more humane� but that doesn�t mean a whole lot under the circumstances.

As far as watching an elk "die a slow and agonizing death" or struggle to pull itself away with its front legs, if I'm close enough to see that I�ll chamber another round and put the animal down.

As far as the .308 for an elk rifle, here's one from this year that was "DRT" with a 168 grain TSX:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../Search/true/Son_s_first_elk#Post3461582

In a word, �Yes!�

Like all cartridges, however, a .308 Win has its limits.

For purposes of discussion, let�s compare three cartridges using Nosler 6th�s fastest loads for each:
.30-30 w/ 170g Partition RN @ 2192fps (BC .252)
.308 Win w/ 165g Partition @ 2910fps (BC .410)
.300 WM w/ 165g Partition @ 3290fps (BC .410)

When comparing cartridges I like to look at three things � bullet drop, retained velocity and retained energy. I find it useful to compare bullet drops at 24� (although I�m willing to deal with more), retained velocity at 2000fps (although I�m willing to deal with less), and 1500fpe (although there is nothing magic about that number). I also like to compare Maximum Point Blank Range for the cartridges, based on a 6� diameter target. Those are the numbers I�ll use here. If anyone objects to those numbers they are welcome to choose their own and run the ballistics accordingly.

All three cartridges and loads have taken elk successfully. In fact, many elk have been taken with many different .30-30 loads, which should answer your question �would the .308 Win be enough ?�

That said, there is a pretty big difference in the capabilities of the three cartridges. Using bullet drop and retained energy and velocities, they compare as follows when using a Maximum Point Blank Range zero for a 3� max rise/drop (6� diameter target):

Zero/MPBR
167/206 yards = .30-30
245/287 yards = .308 Win
273/320 yards = .300 Win Mag

-24�
310 yards =.30-30 (1374fps, 712fpe)
435 yards =.308 Win (2033fps, 1514fpe
490 yards =.300 Win Mag (2233fps, 1827fpe)

2000fps
65 yards =.30-30 (+2.4�, 1506fpe)
450 yards =.308 Win (-26.5�, 1473fpe)
615 yards =.300 Win Mag (-52.5�, 1467fpe)

1500fpe
65 yards = .30-30 (+2.4�, 1997fps)
440 yards =.308 Win (-24.5�, 2024fps)
600 yards =.300 Win Mag (-48.5�, 2029fps)

You will notice there isn�t a great deal of difference between the .308 Win and .300 Win Mag in terms of MPBR � a mere 33 yards. For a -24� drop the difference is 55 yards. If the bullet you choose needs about 2000fps to expand properly, the .300 Win Mag adds 165 yards to the capability of the .308 Win and if 1500fpe is the desired energy at impact the .300 Win Mag bests the .308 Win by 160 yards.

What does this mean in practical terms to the hunter? Perhaps nothing, perhaps everything � it depends on the terrain the hunter will be hunting in and on other factors like the hunter�s skill with the weapon in hand and the ranges at which the hunter is prepared to take shots.

When I hunt elk with my .30-30, 150 yards is on the long side of my comfort range. Grab my .308 Win and I�m very comfortable to 400 and would push that to 450 without much concern. With the .300 Win Mag in my hands, 600 is very doable.

If you are hunting in heavy timber, a 600 yard cartridge won�t buy you much over a .30-30. If you are hunting clearings from an overlook, cross canyon hillsides or open sage, as I often do, the difference in a .300 Win Mag and .308 Win can be very significant. To put things in perspective, I like to use a football field analogy. Often when using the .30-30 I find myself watching a area much smaller than a single football field, which measures 6400 square yards. Thus a single football field worth of coverage with the cartridge in hand is significant to me and easily visualized.

Note that the football field comparison compares area rather than range, which is appropriate when you consider that elk live in an area, not on a straight line, and can appear from any place in that area or enter the area from any place along the edge. Also note that the % differences remain the same whether you are talking about a full circle or simply a narrow pie-shaped wedge.

Using the numbers from above and measuring in Football Fields (FF):

MPBR
40.4 FF = .308 Win
50.3 FF = .300 Win Mag
=================
9.8 FF = .300 Win Mag Advantage (24.3%)

-24�
92.9 FF = .308 Win
117.9 FF = .300 Win Mag
=================
25.0 FF = .300 Win Mag Advantage (26.9%)

2000fps
99.4 FF = .308 Win
185.7 FF = .300 Win Mag
=================
86.3 FF = .300 Win Mag Advantage (86.8%)

1500fpe
95.0 FF = .308 Win
176.7 FF = .300 Win Mag
=================
81.7 FF = .300 Win Mag Advantage (86.0%)


If you are prepared for long shots and are hunting an area where they are possible, the .300 Win Mag clearly provides a significant advantage when such opportunities arise. On the other hand, I�ve been hunting elk since 1982 and have never taken a shot over 350 yards. (Although I have turned down numerous opportunities to do so, sometimes coming home empty-handed as a result.)

Know your .308 Win and load, choose an appropriate bullet, and success or failure will primarily depend on your ability to find elk and the time you put into that effort.

Oh, yeah � some people will tell you that you can always �get closer�. Ask them if they�ve always been able to do that. If they�ve hunted elk much and answer honestly the answer will be �No.� FWIW.

Will someone please do the cliff notes on that for me?

OK Johnny...here goes...

The .308 will kill elk..

Pick a proper bullet...

Run it fast enough...

Make it hit the important stuff on an elk...

It works...


Ingwe

Arguing with CH is like arguing with my wife.The last time Coyote Hunter and I discussed the 7MM/270/'06 it went for 23 pages of ballistics on another forum.

It's the shooter not the caliber that gets 'er done.

Jayco

Whew.. Thanks!

A .308 Win will be fine most of the time...

Yes, the .308 Winchester as was said prior several times in the last few years, will kill an elk. However, it does have a lot of limitations other calibers like the .338 Win mag or .300 Win mag do not have in a sence of yardage what type of shot you can put on the animal. My .338 Win mag with 250 grain bullet can go from any direction, including the Texas Heart shot.

You keep telling yourself that, ok?

How many elk have you seen killed? What calibers? And what ranges?

If you take two identical hunters, one carrying a rifle with 33% more frontal area but with 10% less retained energy at 450 yards, in an area where the average shot can be from 300 to 500 yards on trophy bulls, one using monolithic bullets, and the other using a bonded bullet, a ham sandwich wrapped up in a ballistic chart tastes pretty damn good at noon.

Considering that 90% of all big game is harvested within 200 yrds. I think the .308 with be just fine on over 90% of the situations. It's a nice caliber to shoot and shoot well. Bagged my biggest with it.

Fred, I think you have nailed the formula.

I've kill at least 9 with a 270 win so I guess a 308 should do the job very well.

Thanks. I can breathe again.

Well, that would depend on wind speed and the mustard used.

Pickle or no pickle?

Well, that depends, bread & butter or dill?

I believe a hoagie or grinder roll will have the highest BC of anything else out there and it's best to go the extra mile and bond the ingredients with liberal amounts of mayo or mustard unless you want it to come apart...

The elk I have conferred with seem to prefer the 308, at least the northern and western elk. Many of your southern elk tend to like the larger calibers. Mountain elk like a Mtn Rifle or a Montana...I have never found a mature bull who would turn down a hoagie, pastrami being the preferred filling and you are right, mayo (not Miracle Whip being a plus for weight retension amongst Rocky Mountain elk, but not so much Roosevelts...) This is not a scientific study, although Tule elk, being mostly Californian have a wide preference for Avacado and bean sprouts dry on whole wheat....