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[quote]..... So far as bullets bouncing off, the reports I've read of various .22 RF bullets bouncing off of critters are numerous. Some I don't give credence and others I do. The event I told earlier about the .30-30 bouncing off tells me that if you have a shallow enough impact angle, anything is possible. If I'm shooting one today with the CB I wait for as near as perpendicular as possible between skull and bullet path for this reason. Such angles can be had if a hog is feeding, or if they are aware of you, they will alternate between looking at you over their nose (raised) and then lowering their snout nearly to the ground for a brief moment. If I don't get that presentation, I don't shoot. Sounds pretty logical and straight-forward to me! BTW, when growing up my teen years in NW Florida, met a fellow who's dad lived in Alaska. When visiting his pops once, Dennis claimed he witnessed a BROWN BEAR take a hit between the eyes with a .30/06, then watch as the bullet just fell to the ground! Was that a freak bear? O freak round or incident? I suppose either is possible, but I wouldn't have fired only once! Plus I would've tried shooting the bear in the neck and mouth (closer to the spine and jugular that way), if not the shoulder and chest. But a bear is definitely a different critter than a hog or beaver too. 
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Campfire Outfitter
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[quote] ![[Linked Image]](http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h50/Sakoluvr/P2050001.jpg) I can remember at least two head-on shots when I aimed right between the eyes, looking at the skull I bet it glanced off. About 90% of my shots are when they are swimming past and I have aimed at the center of mass about at the water line. I am sighted in for 25 yards but at 10-15 I would be a little high. I picked up the Horton crossbow off the classifieds so I may try another form of attack pretty soon. My Gold Tips float and I am hoping the crossbow bolts do the same.
Dave
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Can certainly see how a bullet would bounce off a beaver's skull if it was looking at you. Darn flat and thanks for the photo. Took a second to realize what I was looking at. "Klingons?" sez me noodle for a second...
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Good thread I have been enjoying it, well most of it, since the beginning.
I have been dispatching critters with CB's since the 70's maybe earlier, as I don't recall exactly when I first began to use them.
Todays thinking on how much gun is needed is way out of proportion to what is actually needed,,, But that is my personal opinion. Shot placement IMHO is the real key, not so much what is used.
In the early 60's I saved and bought a Sheridan 5MM Blue Streak pellet gun, that I still use on occasion. It has dispatched no telling the critters, undoubtedly thousands, of many varieties since, with 14 grain pellets, at never more than CB velocities.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I have also killed a number of hogs with a .22 pistol. Model 17 Smith K-22 6". All my loads were HV .22LR. Hogs aren't that big a deal, given the chance they will go the other way, cornered/trapped, or if you mess with a sow's little ones, it is a different story.
Last edited by AJD; 02/06/10. Reason: spelling
There is no accounting for taste.
Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.
Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however,
Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Had a friend who was a warden with Florida FWC and worked the area of the Fakahatchee Strand down in the 'Glades. Unarmed, taking a stroll and heard some noise in the palmettos. A little shoat of about 5 pounds comes running over to him and....he picked it up. It squealed a little and there came a grunt, just before the earth trembled.
He told me later that he wondered for nearly 45 minutes just what it was he was thinking, that while up in a slender pine sapling that swayed and cracked a little each time momma hit it, inches below his feet. Don't know he ever found an answer to that....but he came away a wiser man.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Campfire Outfitter
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Can certainly see how a bullet would bounce off a beaver's skull if it was looking at you. Darn flat and thanks for the photo. Took a second to realize what I was looking at. "Klingons?" sez me noodle for a second... I am VERY tempted to take that skull out back and load up my old 3 screw single six with CB Longs and.........see what happens at 10 feet (shooting down between the peepers). But since I already know what the outcome would be (a destroyed beaver skull), I am not going to do it. 
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
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Campfire Tracker
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Wow, emotions running high since last I visited this thread...
Dphar, you did the right thing by executing an immediate failure to stop drill by popping the malevolent beaver again. Head shots can bounce off that's a natural fact be it beavers, elefantes or human critters coming at you like a crazy spider monkey.
Got a tape that shows a dude getting out of his truck with a .30 M1 Carbine fixing to shoot one of our officers. Slug from a .40 SIG blows the hair on the side of his head straight up and merely knocks him down because it was at a glancing angle.
You, and the guy who's failing to anchor swimming beaver with head shots need a to practice failure to stop drills on secondary targets on these beavers.
Shoot 'em thru the lungs if the heads are too tough or angled!
I am wondering if the Paco Tool's changing the RNs to a flatpoint would be a good or bad thing for penetrating a hog's skull...they do make my .22 more accurate.
Were I shooting hogs I'd hedge my bets and move up to the magnum force of a CCI subsonic flattened with a Paco Tool.
Meanwhile, Dphar, Digital Dan and even I, need to relax and kill more critters.
It is, after all, a Dan's World.
Best,
Dan G.
�When in doubt, I whip it out.� Uncle Ted ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/imagejpg1_zps585f4bbf.jpg)
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New Member
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Hi Digital Dan
Since you apparently post on the WSU site, check with SPG and ask him. He was running traps with me. He saw the beaver after I got it out of the trap.
I understand the need for noise reduction. I understand pest control.
Yes, they have hard skulls, yes the angle was bad. I have little doubt that with a perfect angle its probably going to punch through, but I can get to the brain at any angle with a LR. Shoot for the neck? I don't want holes behind the ears if I am selling the fur.
But the bottom line is still as follows.
CB bounced off, LR did not. I shot with the CB, saw the result thumb cocked it and shot again just that fast so its not like I had a different angle etc. Even if they worked 3 out of 5 times it would not be good enough.
For those that have beaver trouble, it is very unlikel that shooting is going to work vry well (maybe maybe not) so find someone who knows how to do control work. But he has to be allowed access to the necessary areas. 330 Conibear *done right* in the bank den opening is lights out in about 5 minutes after hitting the trap and the dogs can't get too them (but otter can). No worry about CB bullets skipping off and going through the neighbors picture window either. But he might want $50 each to come trap them since the fur may not pay the gasoline right now.
Dan
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
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Dan, I do hang out there at WSU and Mr. SPG has regaled me with tales of you fellas roughing it out in the wild. I do not, nor have I ever doubted your words. Your expertise with use and building of muzzle loading arms is far beyond anything I'll ever do, so I sit back and admire your work and wonder just how cold that water is when you wade around in buckskins setting traps. That's another subject of which I know nothing. SPG implies that water is fair cold during the spring melt, I believe him. Truly.
As I write, there is work underway in an Armory in Cody on an old small bore CF rifle and a .22 WRF Winchester pump...and a new slug gun creation. Of the three, the slug gun would be inappropriate for hogs unless I contrive a bench/blind combination and exude infinite patience. Both of the others would be superior for hogs no doubt, however, there is the matter of what I am allowed to do here by the state.
I am working an area of approximately 1200 acres in a permitted hog eradication program. This land is part of an island of about 3500 acres. About half the land is a preserve dedicated to endangered (1) or threatened (2) species habitat, that being an objective with which feral hogs are wholly incompatible. There are adjacent parcels of privately held land to which I also have access, so there is latitude to both trap and stalk. All of the smaller portion of state land and all of the private land is snuggled up in the middle of rural residential property and I do not have the latitude to use anything other than rimfires, with emphasis by the state in avoiding conflict with the residents.
I will state categorically that I could use LR ammo and meet the state's requirements. On the other hand, certain home owners adjacent to portions of the state lands and all of the private property are vociferously anti hunting and anti gun. When I do my chores and they remain blissfully unaware of my presence, we are all happy. Of the rimfires I own, and as measured with a sound meter, none are as quiet as the CB short shooter and none suitable for the task are more accurate. To that end, I have found the CB short adequate in all regards and have yet to collect battle scars beyond those inflicted by the NVA in times long past. I have no death wish or desire for more scars.
Semper Swamp,
Dan the Other
Last edited by DigitalDan; 02/07/10.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Campfire Outfitter
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Dan,
It's a private lake and the HOA is not doing much if anything as far as hiring a trapper. They all talk about it but most everyone just wraps the Cypress and Willow. So I did my own research and watched many videos on the Conibear 330 but did not follow through with it.
The lodge is on a steep embankment with no way to set the trap from the neighbors yard and the water is about 6' deep at a 45 degree slope at one entrance. I think the second entrance is shallower and it may be possible to set the trap with my jonboat.
I have about 100' of lakefront and if you can suggest methods to bait them to my side I would be interested. It is much shallower and I can set traps easily.
I will say this, it is a lot of fun trying to ping them with the CB's but the destructive bastards need to be thinned.
My Cooper is sub-.75" at 50 yards almost 100%. I can re-zero to 25 yards and use match ammo at 1080fps, they won't swim away. I would be limited to shots directly at the lodge though and could only shoot once a night and late.
Dave
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Campfire Outfitter
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This thread has inspired me to start my quiet 22 experiments agin. I want to find an inexpensive rifle to set up for CCI CB longs (locally available) for the occaisional pest erradication.
On beavers, I have been getting rid of them on our farm for years and I shoot a 223 or a 300 savage (when deer hunting...), and only taken a few with a 22lr. What I have noticed with 22 lr is they need to be out of the water and closer. If you shoot them in the water, the water absorbs a lot of the shocking energy andf they are just tough critters with hard skulls and heavy muscle mass.
I open their dam to really lure them in. What brings them in is hearing water flow, sensing the flow, and sensing the water drop. Not sure how to do that on a lake situation.
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
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The question about when the CB short and longs were introduced caused me to inquire with CCI. The question put to them was: What was the date of introduction of the CCI CB short and CB long? The response: I have product catalogs back to 1973 and these two products are listed. I started my employment in 1971 and am quite sure we were manufacturing CB Shorts and CB Longs then. The CB Shorts were once called CB Caps. The Longs were once called Mini Cap Long CB.
Sorry that is as far back as I am able to go.
CCIexpert I had no idea........
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 24
New Member
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New Member
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Dan, I do hang out there at WSU and Mr. SPG has regaled me with tales of you fellas roughing it out in the wild. I do not, nor have I ever doubted your words. Your expertise with use and building of muzzle loading arms is far beyond anything I'll ever do, so I sit back and admire your work and wonder just how cold that water is when you wade around in buckskins setting traps. That's another subject of which I know nothing. SPG implies that water is fair cold during the spring melt, I believe him. Truly.
As I write, there is work underway in an Armory in Cody on an old small bore CF rifle and a .22 WRF Winchester pump...and a new slug gun creation. Of the three, the slug gun would be inappropriate for hogs unless I contrive a bench/blind combination and exude infinite patience. Both of the others would be superior for hogs no doubt, however, there is the matter of what I am allowed to do here by the state.
I am working an area of approximately 1200 acres in a permitted hog eradication program. This land is part of an island of about 3500 acres. About half the land is a preserve dedicated to endangered (1) or threatened (2) species habitat, that being an objective with which feral hogs are wholly incompatible. There are adjacent parcels of privately held land to which I also have access, so there is latitude to both trap and stalk. All of the smaller portion of state land and all of the private land is snuggled up in the middle of rural residential property and I do not have the latitude to use anything other than rimfires, with emphasis by the state in avoiding conflict with the residents.
I will state categorically that I could use LR ammo and meet the state's requirements. On the other hand, certain home owners adjacent to portions of the state lands and all of the private property are vociferously anti hunting and anti gun. When I do my chores and they remain blissfully unaware of my presence, we are all happy. Of the rimfires I own, and as measured with a sound meter, none are as quiet as the CB short shooter and none suitable for the task are more accurate. To that end, I have found the CB short adequate in all regards and have yet to collect battle scars beyond those inflicted by the NVA in times long past. I have no death wish or desire for more scars.
Semper Swamp,
Dan the Other This explains many things, I had already figured the noise thing was an issue. I hate people knowing where I am. I camped out a lot in a jungle paradise, the NVA missed me with solid objects though. But they seriously killed my poucho early one morning and it is somewhat disconcerting when the sun comes up and you have a "target backer" so to speak. Welcome home. Dan
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Dan,
It's a private lake and the HOA is not doing much if anything as far as hiring a trapper. They all talk about it but most everyone just wraps the Cypress and Willow. So I did my own research and watched many videos on the Conibear 330 but did not follow through with it.
The lodge is on a steep embankment with no way to set the trap from the neighbors yard and the water is about 6' deep at a 45 degree slope at one entrance. I think the second entrance is shallower and it may be possible to set the trap with my jonboat.
I have about 100' of lakefront and if you can suggest methods to bait them to my side I would be interested. It is much shallower and I can set traps easily.
I will say this, it is a lot of fun trying to ping them with the CB's but the destructive bastards need to be thinned.
My Cooper is sub-.75" at 50 yards almost 100%. I can re-zero to 25 yards and use match ammo at 1080fps, they won't swim away. I would be limited to shots directly at the lodge though and could only shoot once a night and late.
Beaver are easily caught with a castor based bait. Search the WWW. Don't over pay its not rocket science like some Coyote baits seem to be. But you need a pretty good leg hold trap Bridger #5 is good. Need a flat spot big enough for the trap with 4" of water. Trap chain needs to be 6' so add some chain wire is not reliable except for tying to the stake. Stake in deep water using a dry or pealed stick about 2" diameter. Beaver will cut it off and carry away green with bark. Put another stake out 2-3 feet farther out to entangle. Beaver in 3 ft of water will die about as soon this way as in a 330 (they don't kill beaver instantly). Good sets will run 75% till the beaver are gone or pull out due to casualties. Dip a 12" or so dry twig in the lure and stick in the back about 15" above the trap. Also. There should be bank holes as well as a lodge. These are killers with a 330. But you must know the direction of travel so feel with a stick. Also they often eat in these and carry sticks in and out or the older beaver use them the get away from the kits its seems. Carried sticks often trip conibears. Fold the trigger to about 2-3" long then st it about 3-4" off center. You don't want to just wack a big beaver on the head. From the jon boat figure how long your stakes need to be to get to the bottom and hold the 330 steady (you can use multiple stakes so long as they are INSIDE the springs, then wire the trap to the stakes to give the proper elevation. Use a wire to another stake or well anchored stick in the lodge. If you go to pounding on the lodge etc the beaver will likely come out. Make sure you can legally trap houses. If control work sometime all laws are off but check with the fish cops. Beaver will move into good areas so you will likely have them return every year or two from up or down stream etc. If you kill one and retrieve the body you can make your own lure from the castors. Gotta head for the big city. VA want to check my hearing. Wife is tired of "huh?" Dan
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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you heard him, Casturbate 'em.
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Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
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You too. Target backer...yep, did that.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,157 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,157 Likes: 13 |
you heard him, Casturbate 'em.
You owe me a new keyboard fella!
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,473
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 12,473 |
I was in Wal Mart today and saw that they had the .22 CB shorts in stock. Price was around $7.50. I have been using the CB longs, but they did not have any.
I know velocity is the same for both, so any advantage to the CB shorts? I figure that the longs will feed better in all .22's, so why get the shorts?
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
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Joined: May 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
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Posts: 56,157 Likes: 13 |
I have a short chamber, so longs aren't on the menu with the Contender.
Otherwise the longs seem to shoot better in LR chambers. Crossfireoops made what I think is a telling comment about the longs earlier when he mentioned they shoot better for him if he tips the barrel up before shooting to settle the powder to the rear of the case. Haven't gone there myself but it makes sense.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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