Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Win Mod 70 375 H&H Safari Classic to 404 Jeffery?

To The Big Bore Group:

I have a very nice Win Classic Safari 375 H&H collecting dust in my gun safe. I picked up a nice Kimber BGR89 in 375 H&H and really have lost interest in using the Winchester. ( I offered to sell it to a buddy of mine but he's more interested in jumping homes than shooting right now so I'm thinking about what to do with it). Its of limited use right now but after rereading safari rifles again I think it would make a nice 404 Jeffery to compliment my 500 Jeffery RSM. I know this topic has been beaten to death over the years on the boards but I'd like to hear about sucess stories if possible. Here would be my initial plan (Keep the win factory barrel rebore it and then make the necessary mods vs start from scratch with a new tube) What I really need to know is how much gunsmithing is involved in getting this round to work. Jim Dubel got my 500 Jeffery RSM to work just fine so I trust him. Not sure how much time and money is involved? I have a Rem Big Game 416 Mag that I'll sell off to fund the conversion so I just thought I'd get some input before I talk myself into something silly.

Big Questions
1. Rebore vs New PACNOR Barrel 26" $$$
2. 300RUM mag vs Make New Mag Box
3. Starting Rifle (300RUM vs 375 H&H) I like the safari stock and profile better than the win 70 classic 300 RUM

Approximate Conversions Costs?

Thanks Brad

You could just sell either/both and buy this:

http://wolfoutdoorgroup.com/new_page_1.htm

OR unless you have to have a 404, you could get equal performance by simply reboring your 375 to the new 400 H&H. 400 gr @ 2400 with no feeding/magazine etc issues. Mine was done by High Plains Reboring in Turtle Lake ND (he has the chambering reamer). I started with a 700 300 H&H Classic. Three in 1" is no problem.

Gun and H&Hs (400 on the far right)

Can't comment on the amount of action work neeeded to convert from the standard (H&H) belted case to the Jeffery case, as there is significant diameter difference. The re-boring from .375" to .423" (404) is probably doable if your muzzle diameter can accommodate it. I had this done in converting from 375 to 404 Ruger, but found out from Jim that he didn't have the tooling to rebore to .423" so had the work done by Danny Pedersen of Classic Barrel Works.

I like the idea of the 400 H&H here, or another belted 416 round and I REALLY like the idea of selling off the medium bore remmy before it contaminates your good guns.

Can't speculate on feasability of the conversion to 404 except that it does not seem like it should be too hard for a truly good gunsmith. I like the idea a lot. A re-bore has much to say for it in cost savings as well as keeping barrel furniture in tact. I had a custom built but shot out 300WBY (Yep, I did it all from new to shot out) rebored to 340 a few years ago and it is a terrific shooter.

I used a Model 70 standard mag action opened to 375 length, a RUM mag box and a 375 follower. It took a little smoothing of the left feed rail to get it to feed flat nosed solids off that side of the mag. Other than that it fed great.

Barrel is a PacNor in Safari Express profile. It is the worst fouling barrel I have ever had. Far worse than any factory barrel. I'm sure it is just an anomaly, but I would use a Lilja. And I plan to, as it is basically un-useable as is.

It's a fairly straightforward conversion. I'd go for it.

McCray,

Have you talked to the folks at PAcNor about this problem? If you have and they will not fix it, I would try firelapping. I have done this to some awful barrels and have been able to turn sows ears into silk purses as it were.

Additionally, I have had barrels that fouled up a bit but still SHOT great, even when the insides of them looked like a copper penny. Good luck on this one.

By far the cheapest way to have a workable 404 Jefferys is to convert a RUM..One smith in a 1000 can convert a 375 Win mod 70 or a Mauser 98 to a 404 and make it work 110% on the feed, albiet many claim otherwise..Harold Wolfe can but he uses the exact Mauser specs and that is damn costly, perhaps some others can and some get lucky! ...The original Jefferys and the FNs worked well btw.

The best .404 is made on the Mauser Mod. 20 big magnum action or one of its knockoffs..These actions and boxes cost a bundle.

The other option is the CZ, but be sure and have it tweeked as they don't seem to feed well out of the box, for the most part.

One of the reasons I sell all my .404s is because they bring the big bucks and I can't afford to keep one. I personally use the .416 Rem or even the 416 Ruger, as their is very little if any difference in the balistics or killing power in any of the 40 calibers, with the exception of the 450-400 that is less powerful, but fully capable of killing anything on this planet and doing it well. The difference in building a first rate 404 Jefferys Mauser or a 98 Mauser .416 Rem. is about $3000 or more for a Jefferys.

I do love the 404 Jeffery's btw...but its nostalgia, and nostalgia is a blessing btw...If you have no nostalgia, then you have been shorted in one of lifes great blessings.

Thanks everyone for the information. This is one of those projects that could be a black hole money wise if someone went all the way with a fully custom gun set up. The CZ's at $1600 are most likely the cheapest and quickest way to go in the long run. I guess right now I have to head scratch a little more. I like my 416 Rigby RSM for many reasons. With the 500 Jeffery I really don't need anything bigger than a 404 (ie my 458 Lott RSM). I might go and shoot the 375 H&H Win to see how much I like the rifle before I pour more cash into it. In the long run I might be money ahead to sell the Win 70 + the Rem 416 and build a 404 from scratch with a Montana action and fresh barrel.
I think I'll keep looking for now at what other have done.

Thanks

Brad

Ray - your post rates a 1...couldn't agree with you more. "Nostalgia" is what keeps the dreams alive in us. With more modern cartridges and calibers available we chose the Rigby's, H&H's and the Jeffery's. Why? Perhaps in some small way we indentify with people like Harry Selby, W.M.D. Bell, Jim Corbett, and others thru them. Really, would Ruark or Hemingway write about a WSM? Homesteader.

IMHO, it would be a shame to tear apart a model 70 .375 in order to make something else. Find one of those gawd awful 300 RUM's for a donor

That's my vote, but only if you offer it to me first !

The Montana 1999 is a poor choice IMO...They put the gas hole below center in the front ring, and that ruined the action as far as I am concerned..If they had a clue what they were doing they would have put it above center, that way you don't blow a chunk of high dollar walnut out of a high dollar stock! That is just really dumb IMO...

dont want to butt in on the 375 to 404 jeffery i did it with very little problem with a 375 crf action years a go but my exprience the gun you are starting with had a lot of problems functioning as they come from the factory sell it to a collector and start with a new model 70 when you can get your hand on it if you think a minute those cartridges were designed to feel why do you think the 2 300 and 375 h&h look that way it not all cordite then look ate the 404 it almost as good and done give me all that grief over the box size the over half the 404 were built on standard mauser action not magnums as dar as feed ing in a controlled round gun remember the rule 1/3 1/3 1/3 its the thirds that counet on them last third just holds the round shell should be clear stuck to the bolt and on it way to the chamber that how you get then to feed empty cases

A 404 in a std. Mauser or M-70 is a blivet, thats 10 lbs. of s--t in a 5 lb. bag..It can be done and has been done, but I have yet to see but one maker that could make them feed 110% under field conditions, and that is Harold Wolfe, not even the Wesley Richards can make them feed with all the time..they have a bad habit of failing when you need them most. The original Jefferys would feed and it was a std. Mauser but highly modified and that is the specs that Harold wolfe uses and he disgards the Mauser matgazine and makes his own to Jefferys specs. and that is a expensive project..opening up a std magazine just never works right IMO...