Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Lab or german short hair

I am looking at getting my first dog even though I have been around dogs my whole life. Which would make a better dog for hunting and as a family dog that will also play? Which is the tougher dog to train for hunting and obedience?

I see your post with no response. I will say what I know and then, hopefully, the more expert will help you.

I lived with my parents female labs for a long time. They were gentle and quiet dogs and good with small children. They would play and fetch and also walk with me in the woods. Never a problem with them but they are big.

I have hunted with a well trained shorthair and it was superb. If one has more white on it it would be easier to see which is good. I did observe a shorthair that was too 'active' for me in its home.

I have owned or have been owned by GSP's my entire life starting at age six. I can't imagine a better family dog. They will play all day and do require a good deal of exercise. They are intelligent ( almost too much so as mine learned to open the garage doors a few weeks ago ) and will invent games or other ways to get your attention and affection. They can be a little hard headed but I think that is the German in them.

All of ours have hit the ground running and turned into really good bird dogs with minimal interference from us. My current dog Jake is six and is really a pleasure to hunt with. He has a funny little power play on every retrieve of downed birds - he will stop about 15 feet from my hand and with the bird in mouth raise his leg and take a squirt while looking me in the eye.

I can only imagine what he is thinking.

Lab, No question.

I have had raised, trained, shown and competed with Labs for more than 20 years.

I now have a GSP and a Austrailian Cattle Dog and they are the best hunting dogs I have ever owned.

You want a Lab.............................................

I would say it depends on what kind of hunting you do. Labs are great family dogs (I am sure GSPs can be too). Do you want a pointing or flushing dog? Some labs will point but they are generally a flushing dog. Both breeds shed, though some will argue that labs shed worse than any.

Personally, I am a lab guy because they are a jack of all trades. GSPs are primairly an upland dog though I have seen a couple go into the water after ducks.

It will depend on what type of hunting you do. If strictly waterfowl, then a Lab is probably your best bet. If upland and waterfowl, but not a lot of either, then either breed. If you hunt a lot, especially upland, then GSP. There are two types of GSPs in the United States - field trial type and foot hunter type. Most of the bad rap that GSPs get are from people that have gotten a field trial type when they wanted a foot hunter type. The field trial type has been genetically selected over many generations to compete with English Pointers, some lines even have English Pointer crossbred into them. These dogs are full of energy to the point of being hyper, they run big, and sometimes have issues doing retrieves or water work. Foot hunting GSPs are true to the German type; the GSP comes from a French Pointer and a German Bloodhound originally. They are meant to be a versatile dog - they will point, retrieve (from land or water) and track wounded game (fur or feather, land or water). You will see that dual nature - in the field they actively and passionately hunt; at home they are low energy and will patiently lay around a lot. They are also awesome water dogs, and will track and retrieve feather or fur. Yes, I have GSPs and have bred them for over 20 years... If you want a foot hunting type, take a look at the breeders that are NAVHDA members (http://navhda.org/ ). There are also two types of Labs, traditional waterfowl type and more of a field type. The traditional type is heavier, with shorter legs and longer body, all adapted for cold water and swimming. None of these are assets in the uplands; such a dog tires quickly and ends up with joint and back problems. The field type is lighter, longer legged and shorter coupled (back). Not surprisingly they are also higher energy, so you can get into the same hyper problems...

Which will make a better family dog? Either breed can be a good, or bad, family dog. It comes down to the particular line and individual you pick; dogs have personalities, just like people. As a potential owner you'll need to do some good background research on potential breeders and ask them questions about hunting abilities and temperment. Get some references and call them, check test scores, etcetera.

Laker,

I was in the same boat about a year ago. I was trying to decide between a German Short Hair, lab and Boykin Spaniel. Of the three, I wanted the Boykin. Little smaller than the other two, great family dog, great hunter. I ended up with a mutt lab because the wife saw him in the paper and fell in love with it. I love the dog now, but I really wanted a Boykin. I'd at least take a look at them if I were you.

It's tween a Griff and another Lab for me at this time. The Spinone really catches my eye as well...

Dober

Now that there is funny!
They are a cool breed.

They type of hunting you are doing should make the decision, but for the record I think the GSP is a extremely versatile breed with a really wonderful demeanor.

I raised Labs for several years and they are tops for the water and geeese & ducks. Some also will point Upland but not anything like a Pointer or Britt in my opinion. If you like flower gardens, ForGetAbout the Lab, it will be in your flower beds a bunch, especially when you water the flowers.

We now raise German Shorthair Pointer's and have some of the best bred dogs in the country, for hunting Upland or Field Trials or NSTARA. I personally believe the German Shorthair Pointer is the more versatile of the two breeds. However, bloodlines are very important, make sure you purchase from an honest reputable breeder no matter what you settle on for a dog.

Even if you are only hunting Upland with your dog you might want a lab depending on what species you are hunting and the type of cover you hunt. If you hunt pheasants in thick cover a lab might be a better choice. If you are going to hunt a lot of chickens or quail than the GSP might be the dog for you.

For a serious upland bird hunter I'd say the short hair, for everything else I'd say a lab.

If you don't want to train with your dog very much a Lab will give you more enjoyment but if you'd like to get more involved with the training process, you'll really like hunting behind a GSP.

Both are great family dogs but, FWIW, I'd favor a GSP indoors or a Lab outdoors.

Now for some years those high dollar hunting perserves have been using the Labs for the purpose of retrieveing the birds, while the Pointers find them period. I have seen the Smith's operation down in Texas and it does cater to the hunter riding atop the vehicle until the birds are pointed. Then once shot the handler takes the Labs off the back of the truck for their work, to retrieve the birds.

I don't need a LAB when hunting pheasant in the thick stuff or whatever cover! My GSP's will get the job done and bring home the bacon too gents. We do have GSP's that retrieve as well and yes, they didn't have to be forced to do so.

When I first got into dog training I thought I could train any behavior into a dog, given enough time and patience. Heck, as a kid I'd trained guinea pigs to sit up and beg... After a couple years of dog training in the NAVHDA system (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association) I started noticing something. There were a lot of dogs that needed almost no training. The first NAVHDA test is the Natural Ability Test (NA) and tests the capability of the parents to pass on traits to their offspring. My big ah-ha moment came - on a well bred dog over 90% of their hunting ability is already bred in; you don't have to train it in. You'll still have to do some basic obedience work and teach them to hold point for as long as you want them to, but not much more. Pointing, backing (honoring another dog's point), retrieving, water work, tracking, and range are all genetic.

Okay, I hear ya - yes, a well bred dog is going to cost more, but not as much as you think. Your backyard bred dog is going to be around $300. A well bred dog will probably be from $500 to $800. So, a difference of $200 to $500. Spread that across 10 years, and I guarantee you're spending more than that on your morning coffee. The other thing is that the purchase price of a dog is the least expensive part of the deal. Food and vet bills over the dog's lifetime will greatly outweigh the initial cost.

Regarding the brush busting ability of Labs - yes they are great heavy cover busters for about half an hour to an hour, then they're done for the day. I hunt with a group of around 10 guys; about half have very capable Labs so I know what I'm talking about. Shorthairs don't bust brush, they snake their way through it, all day, every day. I had one that's locally famous. The guys nicknamed her the "Ditch Witch". She'd go into the irrigation ditches around here and not come out until called, or a gun went off and there was a bird to retrieve. We'd send the guys with the Labs to the end of the ditch to catch the runners while I'd work my dog on the cagey old roosters that would try to hunker down until we passed. All you could see was the tops of the grass and the tumbleweed shaking as she stealthly picked her way through. When the movement stopped you'd flip your safety off... I bred her to the top GSP in the country at the time, and kept two females. I was trying to decide which one to keep, and had them out pheasant hunting with momma in western Oregon one day. She pointed a rooster, we got it up and shot it, and it fell into a blackberry tangle about the size of a house. She would only go in about 10 feet then back out. I was standing there trying to figure out how to get to the bird when one of the puppies went in. The pup went in so far I was starting to worry that I'd have to go in and find both the bird and the pup... After a couple minutes I saw some movement and got down to look. It was the pup coming out backwards, and looking like it was getting stuck because it kept jerking. It came out a little bit more and I could see why it was jerking - it had the pheasant and was dragging it out! This was a 12 week old puppy and the pheasant was as big as she was! Needless to say, I kept her. I'd tested her litter in NAVHDA; out of 5 pups tested 4 were prize I, perfect scores and the 5th was a high prize II; the owner had done absolutely nothing to prepare for the test. After a couple years I bred the pup I'd kept to the top GSP at that time. Unfortunately we only got a single pup out of the breeding, and I'd already promised the dog to a friend. I was torn, because I knew it was the best GSP I'd ever had, even at 8 weeks. I hunt with the guy a lot, so I've been able to hunt over the dog and confirm my thoughts. The first time we took him out with the big dogs he was about 16 weeks old. We had 3 very experienced GSPs, 1 that was about a year old, and him. We put them into a cattail slough and a rooster got up. My friend made a snap shot and winged the rooster. We decided we'd keep hunting up to where the bird went down, then run the dogs in to find him. After about 5 minutes he asked if I knew where the pup was, as he'd lost track. We called and looked, but couldn't find him. I went a little further up the slough where I could get up on a bank and look down into it. Finally I spotted him up ahead - all I could see was the tip of his tail, the top of his head, and his nose sticking out of the water. He was pointing a bunch of cattails. I told my friend to get in there quick. He did and found the wounded bird. We figured out that the pup had air scented and ground scented the wounded bird and tracked it. It had been on point for at least 15 minutes by the time we got to the bird. The pup only got better with time... That's what you get with a well bred dog - generations of high performance and ability already there!

for a family dog my GSP is as lovey as any lab, damn near velcroed to my side around the house, loves all kids, he is not happy kenneled other than to sleep, he wants to lounge around the living room with us if we are home......

the guys above me have pretty well lined out why to pick one over the other.....my GSP loves the water and will retrieve from it but i wouldnt use him for alot of cold water duck and goose hunting but for the farm/stock pond duck shooting i do while hunting upland birds he is fine.....

I've stayed out of this because it was GSP vs. Lab. I've trained and owned them all and of the two, I like Labs. And, while I love all bird dogs, I stayed out of this because of both these breeds, I favor other dogs, so it wasn't my place to comment. But, your last post touched a nerve.

Well, where to begin. I will apologize ahead of time, because perhaps I'm in a bad mood and I've misinterpreted your post. So, here goes

I'll take a horseback pointer or setter over any NAVHDA dog. While it may not be possible, it sure seems these tests are more contrived than a horseback or grouse test. Choose the breed you want, its of no concern to me, but operate from a love of the breed and ability--not of tests and money.

As for back yard breeders, I would argue that there are more disreputable big name breeders at $500 a pup than the guys that do it for the betterment of the breed and nearly give their dogs away. Its the "name" breeders and fixed pedigrees that caused DNA testing to be forced into the mix.

What HT said X 1000! Some of the best breeders in the country are "back yard" breeders. However, It seems that the good back yard breeders tend to be breeding pointing dogs. If I were to get a lab, it would be from a big, well respected breeder with lots of refrerences. Labs have too many health issues not to do your homework and get a well breed one. Im a brit guy, and we don't really have a lot of "big" brit breeders. Most of the great brits come from "back yard" breeders that breed like H.S. said........... BUT, like everyone else said, if your primary goal is ducks and geese, then get a lab. If its upland, then get the GSP. Id still pick a Brit over a GSP for a house dog/hunting buddy just because of their size, but thats just me.

To Huntaria Setters and jetjockey - the definition of "backyard breeder" doesn't have anything to do the size of the kennel. It means a breeder that doesn�t do their homework, has no plan, doesn�t understand the consequences of making poor choices, and doesn�t stand behind their dogs when a problem comes up. It�s the guys who get together because one has a boy dog, and the other has a girl dog, and they�re sure they can make a lot of money selling the puppies. If you don't believe me, go ahead and do an internet search on the term backyard breeder and see what comes up. Some of the best dogs come from small kennels with very conscientious breeders.

Pointing dogs have some of the same health issues as Labs, as well as others, so regardless of breed you still have to do your homework.

To Huntaria Setters � yes, you did misinterpret my post� I was trying to get across what a good breeding program does. It sets type, so that�s why I was recommending that people take a look at NAVHDA � because they maintain a database of test scores so that you can see how the breeder has progressed with their line and you can also see where the weaknesses are. Having a set type (or line) in a breeding program is like when you go to the store for a Granny Smith apple � you can grab any one off the pile and they�re going to taste like a Granny Smith. Yes, some are going to be more sweet, or sour, and every once in awhile you�ll get a bad one, but in general they are all pretty similar; you know what you are going to get.

I can�t fault you too much for what you wrote, as I would have done the same years back. I used to bad mouth various hunting dog organizations, too. Now that I have more experience under my belt, here�s what I think � any organization that a person wants to join that gets them out in the field with their dog in addition to hunting season is great! It gets them and their dog more experience, lets them try out different ways of doing things, they can have some fun, and they meet like minded people. If a certain organization isn�t your cup of tea, try something else. It�s why we have Fords, Chevys, Dodges, Toyotas, Nissans, GMCs, etcetera, in no particular order�

I�m not quite understanding your beef with DNA testing� NAVHDA does it in an attempt to maintain a verifiable registry. It doesn�t lock the small breeder out; you just have to have the sample collected and submitted by a veterinarian. Wouldn�t you agree that a small breeder is just as capable of being dishonest as a �name� breeder?

I will completely agree with you on doing it for the love of, and to further, the breed; whatever breed that may be.

I would say the Labrador is the better family dog, unless you really want to be out excercising the dogs. Seems to me that the GSP ( wonderful breed by the way ) is a bit more high energy and requires more run time.

My young lab needs his fair shair of time to run, but he is really pretty mellow in the house, and calming a bit more every day.

The breeder I bought my dog from asked me several question and I realized that my dog was going to be 85% family dog, 15% hunting dog. He has a wonderful pedigree, but I did not take the 'hardest charging' dog from the litter. A real go getter in the field has a tough time containing his energy in the house.

The lab is a favorite of mine. I would like to have a GSP or Viszla as well, but as I go through the process of training a good, aggressive field trial dog, it makes me wonder what one of the more high energy dogs would be like in the house.

Well, I used to run both horseback and NSTRA trials. I won a few too, so I think I know what I'm talking about. I quit about 15 years ago, because, IMO, it was more about winning than the betterment of anything. I've seen some pretty strange and near-boderline crooked results. It just wasn't fun anymore and for many guys, it didn't have a thing to do about getting out with their dogs. Now, having said that, I'm all for men hunting and having fun with their dogs. Nothing worse than good blood left to wither.

As for NAVHDA, some of the tests are so contrived, I really don't see how its used as good predictor of breed or bloodline. Perhaps some aspects, I suppose could be argued that way. As a comparison, some aspects of horseback trials are more about ground speed than natural ability. Did you ever try to foot hunt some of the extremes that are occasionally bred for this sort of thing?

I will say this, though, for NAVHDA. I do think their registry program at least attempts to screen for genetics. So, in this regard, I would also agree that its certainly not a bad place to start.

I will agree that in general, good trial dogs make good bird dogs. I will tell anyone that. I have no beef with this. What I find disturbing is when this is the only indication that folks use. You might be surprised that some dogs that wouldn't cut it at a trial because their tail is not quite high enough, make terrific hunting dogs.

As for DNA testing, anyone can be dishonest. I don't know if you know the whole story behind this, but it was a very big name in breeding that was a primary cause for AFDSB to go to DNA testing. That was my point.

Really, I think you and I are probably pretty much on the same page. I did misinterpret your post and for that I apologize.

KcnBoise....I been calling our operation a "backyard kennel" since it's inception years ago! I always thought that most people, who visited us went away thinking we were indeed a Backyard Breeder too. The wife and I don't do this for turning a big profit, we are lucky to break even when the bills are paid. We do what we do for the love of being around our dogs period. We try to raise at least one litter a year and sometimes it is two litters of excellent pedigreed pups. We don't pressure people and we don't compete in competition, no need to really, the bloodlines and pedigrees of our dogs speak for themselves. How many Son's & Daughters of National Champions do you own may I ask? I don't give a Hoot N Nanny what you call our operation, but you do need to know that we put out some of the very best bred dogs and pups in the entire country BARE NONE!!!

I was told years ago by a elderly (55years) gentleman, one of the real old bird hunters of years passed, who is still going strong at 80yrs today and owns his on game preserve as well, that breeding the very best to the very best, will pay dividends in the future. This is what we do at our kennel, make no mistake about that fact!!!
We started with son's and daughters of "national field trial champions" (1st & 2nd picks mind you) and it doesn't get any better than that in my journal. Those people who received puppy's from us, have never brought up a complaint concearning the puppy or dog they took home with them over all these years. So much for Back Yard Breeders I guess!

I do believe that YOU got your words a bit confused with real facts and you should have listed PUPPY MILL instead. However, we at Tall Oak Gun Dogs, are not a PUPPY MILL by any means. We are lucky if we have 2 litters a year and yet we have 5 very well bred ladies in our kennel, daughters of several champions such as NFC Heide HO's MRT, NFC Magnums Touch Of Gold, NFC Shell Shocked Frank and Champion Show Time's Rollin Thunder "Ricky" Not to mention the soon addition of a lady out of Mark Wasermans great dog NFC CUTTER.

This quote really cracks me up. I hear that from SO many people. Field Trial dogs are not any more high energy in the house then any other dogs from the same breed. With any of the high energy pointing breeds, they need their excercise. You can't expect to keep a Brit, GSP, EP, Viszla, or ES in the house 24/7 and have them be good house dogs. It doesn't take a lot of excercise, but they need to get out, walk, pee and smell things at least every other day. I have a "high energy" field trial brit who is a tweener. She runs a big shooting dog brace and a small All Age brace. She qualified for the Brittany Open Gun Dog nationals at 22 months old, and has a very nice trial career so far. She is running in OAA this weekend and OGD the following weekend. She is a great house dog. She spends 99% of her time lying on the couch, the bed, or stepping on our feet while shes in the house. Having a field trial dog thats also a house dog is not tough, as long as the dogs gets the excercise they need.

GSP!

I don't trial so take this for what it is worth. Thought about getting into Springer trials until I talked with some and found out just how much politics can come into play with regards to who wins. At least at the smaller events. Some may deny it, but it exists big time.

I've had the opportunity to hunt over some good pointers for Ruffed Grouse. ES and EP. Most of these dogs came from what some would refer to as back yard breeders. The thing that set them apart was they were hunters of the first order. The foundation of their dogs had great blood. The dogs they subsequently breed proved themselves in the Grouse woods. Not all of the offspring were great, but more than a few turned out good.

Some dogs that had their foundation from hunter trials have run beside their dogs on occasion. They couldn't hold the proverbial candle to those breed by the Grouse hunters.

Don't mean to say that some could not, just what I've observed over the years.

Pointed Ruffed Grouse don't come easy and the experience needed to do so rarely will come from planted birds in hunt tests.

Addition: Have a friend whose GSP had his Master classification in whatever organization that applies. He told me he never could handle Grouse.

Addition 2: To the original question. From what I've seen for the average guy who is not going be the most serious dog trainer, it would be a Lab. Get the basics down, put the dog into a lot of birds, go hunt and train on the run so to speak. Training a pointer is not something one does now or then or just when they can fit it in. If there is any hobby where you get what you put into it, it would be having a good pointer.

I did not mean that field trial dogs were high energy dogs. My dog is a black lab and has more field trial champions in its pedigree than I have fingers on my hands. What I meant was the fact that German Short Hairs and Viszlas are much like Weims in that they have a strong desire to be around people all the time, and they have a high amount of energy! They were build to run, built to hunt. I was comparing them to the Labrador.

Oakster,......Yes our GSP dogs are bred to run and fast! However, they are very good in the house too. We only have 1 out of 15 dogs that is NOT meant for the house. This dog was not bred by us and came from a "show breeder" as a puppy. Her temperment is ok but she is as nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof, eyeballing a mouse below. A beautiful dapple grey look with ticking but she can not sit still period. We had to move her to the kennel out of the house at 10 months old. The wife picked her out some years ago but she does not make a good walking pet either or car buddy if you get my drift.

Hey there, just signed up on this site so i hope ya'll don't mind me joining in. To throw in my 2 cents, I've had my GSP for about two years, and he's been the absolute best dog i've ever had. I've only really been around two of them, mine and my uncle's, so I can't speak for the whole breed. But I'll say that at least with mine, they're not probably as good of housepets as labs. They seem to be geared soley towards hunting. They do show affection, but usually not long enough to be noticed. However, if you're looking for a more intelligent, dedicated hunting dog, I don't think you'll find a better breed than the GSP.

Well. I am a bit partial. But my Brit puppy did pretty well in the trial circuit this year and I just got her home from the trainer. She sat right next to me for 8 hours on the drive home yesterday, and shes sleeping right next to me on the couch right now. Shes a pretty darn good house dog if you ask me. Maybe not as good as my lab, but she can run a heck of a lot more them him!

prolly depends on the individual GSP......no doubt that he is always showing affection.....only been recently that ive been getting through his thick german skull that he is not a lap dog....

Can't resist on this one--for the OP I'd go Brittany over Lab or GSP.

GSP, no question.

It would depend on your hunting style or the type of bird hunting you do. One dog is a pointer and the other is not. One is great with water fowel the other is not.

I've owned both and I would LOVE to cross my male GSP with a quality hunting Lab female. I think the cross would be awsome!

I currently own both and my experience has been that the Lab is a little smarter[easier to train] and more eager to please the person handling him. On the other hand my GSP has a much superior nose and is an "energizer bunny" in the field . Both are fine family dogs and I would hate to have to choose one over the other.

i've hunted and owned labs that will point better than most pointers... the honcho of the local duck club prefers GSPs as his waterfowl retrievers...

the lab is generally a bit easier to train, but it's not so much that he's smarter, per se, but that he's so much less independent minded than are most dogs of pointing breed...

I'd agree with that. I'm still a rookie and can vouch that smart/independent dogs are a handful for inexperienced handlers!!

On the same hand, once they're trained, they're a joy to hunt behind.....

I've hunted pointing labs too. They are fun and work well enough on pheasants.

For out right pointing qualities, though, I'd be willing to stack 90% of good pointing dog stock up against pointing labs. A good pointer will not only find birds, he'll hold 'em too.

it depends on the lab...my late fathers late old buddy gene who pretty successfully trialed his english pointers declared outright that there was no such thing as a pointing lab, when i asked him to hunt with us in the early 90s... after a half dozen pheasants pointed and held, and one covey of hungarians, he changed his tune...

my old peet was a bird knockin fool of a dog... he was tall, long legged and lean, and he could hunt hard all day long... he'd do it for a week at a time, too... tail high and charging hard til he was back in the truck, and halfway home...
i've known one other lab like him, and one half lab/half golden... otis and reb, they were called by...

I love all bird dogs, so I'm not knocking anybody. That's the last thing I'd do. People should love the dogs they hunt.

But, there's a pretty big difference between pheasants in the sloughs and quail over the open ground. I've been fortunate enough to see about everything except Huns in the big wheat stubble.

I guess this is where I stand. If I take the top 10% of labs for retrieving, there are no better dogs. If I take the top 10% of pointers (and, in general, I'm talking English), then that is precisely what I want for big open country birds. I've yet to see a lab that can run with a pointer, nor have I ever seen a pointer that can handle big water like a lab. There will be exceptions, but, over a 1000 dogs, this will be the trend.

i [bleep] hate huns.....

I've hunted them but a few times and then, in western Iowa. Pretty hard to get a point on them. Or, at least that was my experience. Both birds I killed were the unluckiest creatures on earth. Dog pointed, I could see them run like race horses ahead, and I dropped one when it flew at 40 yds. or so. Same with the second. The Iowa birds pretty much disappeared in the late 90's.

they do the same thing here with dogs......however if your out walking by yourself, such as when deer or speed goat hunting, they hold tight till you damn near step on them then they explode from benieth your feet like a landmine.....ive run into rabid skunks and rattlers while out hunting but nothing takes years off my life as those lil feathered [bleep] exploding at my feet.....damn things have cost me a few head of big game to the loud cussing that tends to go along with the explosion of feathers....

I have a pointing lab, and I have no doubt that the pointing breeds are better upland dogs than labs. I figure the pointing is a bounus as my primary needs are for a retriever. However, mine does all for me I could ask. He is very strong willed,independent, hard headed, great nose, and full of drive. I have to get on my bicycle everyday and do a 2 mile ride to get him enough exercise.

I've had dogs, setters, and labs, all my life, this one is extremely bright, and a real handful. He is a lot of fun, I wouldn't trade him for anything.

Whatever you pick give them plenty of love and enjoy the ride.

I know of only one lab that can go the distance with pointers, but she is a VERY exceptional dog, quick enough on her feet to kill rattlers - that is , AFTER she quit pointing them!!
The first one, she pointed it and it bit her on the nose, my frend danged near lost her.
now she simply kills them.
As far as running long and hard goes, she regularly runs pointers into the ground.
My son's GSP does the same with all the labs he has met and played with, as well as a few Siberians , both breed known for its speed.
however, this lab points , but not as good as the true pointers I hunted over.
never had the pleasure of hunting out of a duck blind with any kind of pointer however.
I love labs, but for up in my country unless they course pretty close it's a pointer that will do best on our ruffed grouse.
Cat

as to what the original poster wants, i'd like to have an idea where he lives and what he might be hunting before i made an actual recommendation...

short of that i'd note that the statements of others about pointing dogs being better than labs for upland game do have some merit, considering the average dog...

that said, i'll state categorically that the average hunter in most of these United States will see and get shots at more game with any decently bred lab of normal demeanor and hunting instincts...

this has everything to do with the eager to please nature of the labs and less to do with their bird finding and hunting ability...

a hunter with an exceptional lab is blessed indeed....

My experience with being around a lot of labs and GSPs and GWPs is that the latter two are generally endowed with a higher energy nature and require more attention and work. This is generally true of all pointers which would express itself in the home too which is something to keep in mind. My own GWP is a kennel dog and requires a 3-5 mi workout about every other day to keep him from boredom and he is a prolific shedder too which is not conducive to being in the house. Personality-wise he friendly, good with kids and other people and is just superb as a bird dog with an excellent nose which again is generally true of pointers vs. Retrievers, the latter, though making excellent pets, being a little less intensely "wired".

Edited to add that my GWP is a fast and wide ranging dog by nature, covering tremendous acreage as I stroll behind. I hunt pheasants exclusively in IA and SD and he will not miss a bird--if they are there he will find them. The labs I've hunted with simultaneously won't begin to cover the same amount of ground. But that may not be the kind of dog you need.

If I were forced to choose a dog for the home and the field it would be neither of these two but between these two I'd pick a lab but it would be quite a compromise for my country.

johnw, I would absolutely agree that a man is blessed to have a fine dog. And a nice lab is a blessing. Full disclosure, I named my son after the best lab I've ever seen.

Otherwise, I suppose I would respectfully disagree. My experience is directly opposite of yours. I would be willing to place any pointer on the ground against any lab. I will say, though, that is from a person that's lived with both pointers and retrievers for 30 years. It is a matter of preference, yes, but, if it didn't gain results, I wouldn't make the argument. There is a very good reason why labs don't make all age gun dogs and why pointers don't make retriever trial dogs.

goodnews, I've hunted Iowa for over 20 years with any breed you'd like to name. One of the better pheasant dogs I've ever seen was a black lab that lived it every day and lived near Afton. I can honestly say, though, that my setters, hunted hard previously, and given a days acclimation, would more than hold their own. As my grandad taught me, never have a dog you'd be embarrassed to show. . .

I find it interesting how everyones lab points better than a pointer and everyones pointer retrieves better than a lab. Funny thing is I never see it.

Pointers must have better noses than labs. That is why they never use labs as bomb and drug dogs they use pointer breeds instead. Or wait........

thing to keep in mind a german short hair aint a pointer in the way an english pointer is.....they were bred to do everything and in germany arent called a pointer.....do they point? most definitely but they were also bred to retrieve from land and water and track large and small game aswell as being a bird dog....

if i were a heavy waterfowl hunter i would have a lab as they will be better at doing cold water retrieves all day.....but i hunt dry land in mostly warm to cool weather with the occasional stock pond or creek duck....love my GSP, he is definitely part of the family, affectionate as hell and whines if he doesnt get to be with us...he loves playing with kids....a friend that lives next door has a lil boy and he and Jake play games through the fence all day....

if yah like labs get a lab

if yah like cold water waterfowl hunting get a lab or a German wirehair

if you like a GSP get a GSP

if yah do alot of warm weather upland hunting i would prolly give the edge to teh average GSP over the average lab but i have hunted over labs that did just fine out after grouse but they were buddies dogs that spent most their working life in the duck blind not walking fields...but they still worked fine for grouse most days...

get the breed yah like and hunt with it....

Very well said

I'm not sure why anyone would think that labs or pointers necessarily has a better nose than another. I'm sure Ingwe can enlighten us, but disposition for service means more than nose at some point. Of all breeds, IIRC, the bloodhound is considered to have the keenest sense of smell, but you don't see too many of these working drug details either (but they are used for man-hunting--really a bit curious about that).

For the record, I still maintain there's a very good reason you don't see labs in all-age field dog trials or pointers in retriever trials. It doesn't mean that either can't be versatile. It just means that each excels in what he was bred to do.

What many have said here is very true. Labs and GSP are different in their styles, temperments and excel in different things.

I've seen a lot of both, and owned several of each. All have been good hunters, great companions and part of my family.



A great dog brings a whole different enjoyment to hunting; a hunting enjoyment unfound any other way.

Conversely, I have had the displeasure of hunting with absolutely terrible dogs of both breeds, some from the same litters as mine. Nothing worse than a day afield or in a blind with a knothead dog.

The difference, IMO, is the comittment the OWNER has to train the dog and get it as much experience as possible. Breeding buys you potential. Only way to fufill that potential is to put the time in to get the dog on birds and train. Don't put in the time and all the potential in the world is wasted.

I have been blessed with exactly one dog that I'd consider a great hunter. What separated her from the rest was intense desire, even as a pup. She was a machine. I did my part and got her on birds year round, and by the time she was 3 it was amazing to watch: put the gun on my shoulder and follow.

Which is better? That's up to you to decide and up to you to have it live up to its potential.

BTW, best two hunting dogs I ever saw were GSPs. Not even close.

-nosualc

I just actually want to thank everyone that hs commented... I am in the exact same boat as to being between these two dogs... I hunt upland more so will likely get the GSP to start with but thin maybe two or three years later getting a lab with some pointing history in it...

would the lab be easier to train if it got to work behind the GSP? I assume it could still pull waterfowling duty as well?

i think you either read carelessly or fail to comprehend what you read...

as to the bomb and drug dogs, it has way more to do with temperament than nose...

Point being that if a breed has a good enough nose to find a ounce of weed wrapped in a pound of bacon there nose is good enough to find a bird.


When you state that "this has everything to do with the eager to please nature of the labs and less to do with their bird finding and hunting ability..." it would appear that you are talking about the ability to smell the birds as that is how dogs find birds. If I am mistaken, what do you mean about the ability to find birds.

for starters, i said it was about other things and not bird finding ability that count... go back and read it again...

just about any dog, including the pomeranian and the chihuahua can use it's nose well enough to find pot or birds... nose and scenting ability are not what makes for a good dog...

in the case of most labs, their drive to hunt seasoned with their desire to please their human makes for a tremendously useful animal...

add in a slick burr free coat that's just about dense enough to keep them going in about any watrer or weather condition...

i feel that most hunters will see and get more shots at game with a lab than just about any other type of bird dog

and i'm currently looking at a litter of chessies...

John-W, those Chessie's are great dogs for the cold weather and hunting under severe conditions just like many Labs. I have been around several "chessie's" but never owned one myself. We are into Upland hunting and I do love the way what I call the American German Shorthair Pointer works. I am not into some of those 80-lb German dogs in the field, that work great for old men like myself. However, I like to see a dog get after the birds and not waste time doing so.

One has to really research the background on any pup or young dog your are planning on brining home. I have some that are not couch potatoes and will not be suited for the home. On the other hand I have some that will drink your beer and swipe your chips while the Super Bowl game is on TV and not get excited about being inside the home. Good Luck on your selection.

PS.........Black Labs do not like "hot weather" and neither do those Chessie's! Once those temps get over 70 degrees they will show you the dog days of summer, unless you have plenty of swimming pools or creek water around to dip into.