Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles R17 and the Runt 7 (7/08)

I haven't tried R15 in the new gun yet but will one of these days.

I tried Varget last night, and not sure if it's a "huge upside" or not but the load I used in it which appeared to be closed to top end ran 155 fps slower with the 139 than the top end R17 load did. I guess I'll take 155 fps as an up side, not sure if it's huge or not but I'd say considering the lil case that it's a fairly big if not huge up side.

I'm not a monster fan of the 120 TSX as I like two holes in elk and quite honestly I feel I'll get them more often with the heavier slugs so I don't happen to concur that they light 120 will do everthing the heaviers do. Though I imagine they'll do just fine from time to time.

So tell me how and why the peformance of the 160's and up don't fit well? What is it that you feel they won't do when it comes to killing deer/elk/lopes etc to 400 and beyond?

And what I'm wondering is why on earth you'd care if I'm "fooling with the heavier bullets"?

The way I see it the lil 7 is very much like the 7x57 and that's been used with 160's and 175's for how long...?

So what am I missing here, help me out...why is is that I shouldn't be using the heavier slugs?

I mean seriously what do you feel that will happen if you start a 160 @ say 2600 and you hit a lope/deer/elk with it @ 400 yds?

Dober

Since I haven't tested '17 & don't know what it'll do I can only say that, yes, I agree 155 FPS is worth having.

RL15 does 3050 w/120's for me, if I want heavier bullets, then there always the 280 or any one of the 7 mags.



2 elk last year with 120's, 2 shots, 4 holes..........but I certainly agree, you'll get more instance of double holes with 160's, depending of course, on the specific bullet used; as you know, bullet weight alone doesn't guarantee penetration in & of itself.



160's are great bullets, maybe the best, in 7mm............but not at 2600 FPS when you can easily get 31-3200 with the big 7's.

If 155 FPS (above comment) is meaningful to you, I would surely think that 5-600 FPS would be overwhelmingly meaningful, but then, that's just me.

It's all about trajectory & wind drift, & for a guy that doesn't use turrets, those holdovers & extrapolations with multi-point reticles don't work real well with 2600 FPS loads.........just sayin', of course.




You've always extolled the virtues of the big 7's............




Retro is fine if nostalgia is your goal; just thought you were more forward thinking..........made a mistake, I guess.




See above comments on trajectory...........



IF YOU HIT 'EM, they'll be history, & therein lies the problem with bullets @ 2600 @ +400 yds +.............thought that was what bigger 7's were for, but again, that's just me & you're just you.

Good Luck with your program.

MM

For a grandson, I'd be running 120s just for the recoil factor.

BT for deer, TSX for elk, VM for fun

MM-first off when I started this thread it was so we could cuss and disscuss how R17 worked in a 7/08. It wasn't started so we could find out what bullet weight you thought I should use..

Nor did I start it to find out what R15 does for you in your 7/08 with a 120. Honestly I could care less and or did I start it to find out that if you wanted to use heavier bullets what you'd use for a round..

Ok, so you shot 2 elk last year, big whoop and the fact that you used 120's I could care even less. Once again it has nothing to do with the original thread.. You mentioned that the 120's will do basically all the heavies will do and I said that they wouldn't. And I said that I want two holes in elk and it's my opinion that while the 120's will work fine that from time to time with them one won't gain two holes and that's something that I want.

Lots of people from the Fire went to the 120's in the 7/08 for their hunting. IMO a lot of it was to go along with the croud, and a lot of it was to try to get a short lil case like the 7/08 some more speed. That's fine with me, they can do as they wish.

I know that bullet weight doesn't guarantee penetration but then again I also know that neither does bullet construction. And then again there's the old argument that comes up quite often here about will a TSX or TTSX open reliably. It's been my experience that I wouldn't say that it'll do it all the time.

It's my opinion that the 160's are good bullets @ 3100 as well as at 2600 and I can easily get it done on elk/deer/lopes with a bullet at either speed. But then again, I didn't start this thread to debate the merits of how will a 160 do out of a Big 7 @ 3100 vs the 160 out of a 7/08 now did I...

And because I like the Big 7's and use them a lot then I shouldn't be using a heavy in the lil 7? Gee thanks a lot for the help I feel mucho better after receiving your coaching on this.

As far as retro goes, so I take it by your comment that if we keep open minds and try things like different bullet weights then our thinking is forward enough. Ah yeah that's a good solid thought process..

And to your comments about trajectory and hitting something at 400 yds or so with a bullet starting out @ 2600 I find it very easy to set up a rig to do so. I'm far from worried about being able to hit what I'm shooting at at long range. Being you go by Montana Man then I spect you live in Mt, why don't we set up a meet and see how all this works. You bring your 120's and I'll bring my 160's and we'll see how it all works out...

Thx for your time, I appreciate your concern for what I'm using or are not using. But in all honestly, if I really wanted advice there's a list of people on this forum that I'd seek it out from and you're not on it..

Have a super night!

Dober

................Very good shooting so far! Don`t ya just love them `lil runts!!!!!!!

I'm thinking that's your huckleberry...

Squeeze-I've long had a thing for carbines, perhaps it's my Minnesota upbringing. Now I'm not crazy about the mzl blast but I do live with it. Not sure I'm quite man enough to live with a shorty short mag like you do though...but you never know the day aint over.

Never say never right..grin

Kimber, yeah the 150 NBT would work great, it shoots well but not quite as good as the 168 Booger or 139 horn does so far. I've used that bullet so much in the Mashburn and I totally love it so I may just do a bit more work with it and see if I can't get it to bug hole as well. Plus, I need to do some serious work with it @ 300,400 and 500. And if I put a scope on it with turrets I'd run it to 1K just for giggles.

Still lots of work to do with it, I mainly bought it cause I love 788's and with the stock being a skosh bit short it'll work great for my 10 year old Grandson and for the youth of several other friends.

I did some work with it @ 300 and 400 the other night and it looked to be quite promising. Sub MOA was quite easy to get.

And for giggles one of these days just for MM I'll run some 120's thru it. Most likely I'll use the 120 NBT as I trust them a bit more, both in terms of BC and in terms of them opening on game. And hey if they shoot as well as the others from close to far I really have no issues with using that lil NBT for all that moves here.

Though I am a true fan of the Horn line and the 139 Horn fb and bt have always treated me better than I deserve in big and lil 7's. Plus the darn bullet just works and it's cost effective.

I'm having fun working with R17 and the lil 7. I mainly started this thread just to see what I could learn from others running it in a 7/08 and also so others may be able to benefit from my findings. As to date I've not seen that there's much for load data/info on the combo.

So anyone who's worked with it I'm more than happy to hear what they have to say.

However, I'm not really interested in any more of a debate about which bullet I should run, and or why I should use a 120 instead of a 160 or whatever. We could save that for another thread as this thread really wasn't about that kind of gack.

But thx for all who've chimed in, even you MM....grin

Ciao, shoot straight and shoot often.

Dober

Dobrenski:

Thanks, I will !

Sorry to hear that I won't be on your advisory board; not sure that I can bear it, , but that feeling's more than mutual.

My original post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but obviously, that escaped you.........

Let's just leave it at that & you go do your heavy bullet thing in your gun & I'll do the lighter thing in mine & never the 'twain shall meet.

MM

Sounds good to me, side note you spect that the R17 would do ok with the 120's?

I'm not married to any weight in particular on this gun. I'm just having fun working with it. A lot of things are said in regards to what people think about the heavies in it and I wanted to shoot them myself and see what I found out.

I think that in the short lil tube 2900 will be about top end. And yeah the TIC part escaped me, sorry about that it's been a long week (and it's only Monday right)

Dober

My biggest elk hunt disaster was using 150X's out of a 708. Best bullet was the 150 NP.

120 BT's would be my choice for deer along with the 140 Boogers.

Not sure; as I said, haven't tried it there, but I do like it in the 270 & 280.

IMO, could be a bit slow in the 7-08 especially with all but the heavier bullets & especially in a short barrel,

but,

'17 seems to be a powder with a pretty broad range of application & Alliant does list it with 130 grain bullets at just over 3000, & they list it for 145's, 160's & 175's as well.........I do think there's not enough real world data, & I think you just have to try it & see how it works in a given cartridge.

RL-15 works very well for 120-140's, but H4350 works well in 140's-160's too.

MM

Bob,

Not too suprising; JMHO, but I think the 150 TSX really needs more velocity than the 7-08 can provide for best performance..........

Hence, my choice of the 120 TSX, but I do really like the 120 BT too..........no flies on the 140 Partition either.

MM

I have 5 120 XBT's sitting here, think I'll stuff 50 of R17 behind them and let er buck. Thoughts..? I'm @ 47 as a top end with the 139 so I'd think that 50 would be fine.

The 120 NBT is one that I might pick up and give a run. So far the lil gun has shot well with the 139's to the 175's so it'd be interesting to see how the NBT shot as I've not always had top accuracy with some of the original X's and XBT's. But I would like to get an indication as to how fast the 120's would roll. I'm thinking that 2900 will be about it for the short lil bugger.

Thoughts guyz?

There sitting here ready to stuff.

Dober

I agree on the accuracy issue with original X, & XBT's, FWIW..........the TSX series was a big improvement & for me, is generally a very accurate bullet in the rifles I use it in, most 7mm & 30.

The 120 Nosler BT is almost always a winner, accuracy wise, & in powder charges, takes the same as the TSX & shoots to virtually the same POI at 100 yards for me in my rifle.

Just guessing, but if your at 47 gr of '17 with the 139, I think I'd only go to 49 1st on the 120's, though 50 should not be a problem..........just remember the 139 Hornady's are a fairly short bearing surface bullet.

MM

True that, I'll back off one I've not seated them yet.

Thx

Dober

Mark, QL calcs 50gr RL17 under a 120XBT at 3088 fps via 18.5" bbl. Also calcs 68K pressure.

7-08 and 30-06 have similar volume/bore ratio. So, I'll add that I've pushed 130s in the 30-06 up to pressure calcs in that range without incident via RL17.

My guess, 50gr will likely work fine, but I'd probably start a little lower and work up to it.

Thx MM and Shane, I backed it off to 49, thinking all will be good and I'll grab some 120 NBT's tmrw to try as well.

As well the 130 Speer has always intrigued me a heck of a lot. Think it'd be very close to 2900 in the short lil tube.

Dober

Good speeds in that short tube with RL17 Dober...

I think so Greg, the pressure signs look good from what I could tell but from some QL charts I saw last night I'm not so sure if I'm not pushing things a bit...?

This gun is a fun gun and I love 788's so I couldn't pass on it. I'll also use it as a loaner a lot as I have several friends who's kids are getting into the game as well as my Grandson is and it'll be a great gun for them to begin with. I love clips for the new and young shooter.

Some time this year I'll be putting together another lil 7 for myself to work the heck out of. I have a 3-10 Leo with a M1 on top for it, I have a Ti take off handle and a youth take off barrel (20" standard contour), all I need is an action and I'll be there. Now that lil gun is really gonna shoot and will get a very thorough working out in the time to come.

Later

Dober

Dober

The 7-08 is the only gun I have that I just can't get to shoot to save me. I'm gonna start playing with it again here soon and I'll have to try the R-17 since I have tried darn near everything else...lol
Granted I haven't tried the 150gr BT yet so maybe I'll give that a try next. Like you I love the Hornady 139gr but I just can't get em to shoot good in mine