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#4165446 - 06/13/10 Which 6.5mm cartridge and why?  
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Oregon45 Online content
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Assume a Krieger stainless 1/8.5" twist barrel, light-Palma contour, finished at either 26" or 28" (I don't like waiting: Sinclair Int'l has these in stock)

Assume a short action, .473" bolt face action.

Intended use is paper punching out to 600 yards regularly, and 1000 yards very occasionally (my home range has a 600 yard facility; 1000 yard ranges in the area would require a special trip to get to). Known distance ranges probably 95% of the time with very occasional long range shooting on public land (I do this about once a year, given the drive-time to really wide open Oregon from where I live).

Stock will be either a McMillan or, and I have to read more on this, an Eliseo tube gun rifle stock. Rifle weight will be under 14 pounds. No muzzle brake so if I want to enter a match (either F-open or high power open) I should be able to with a few equipment tweaks.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Oregon45; 06/13/10.
CMG 300 BP

#4165579 - 06/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Oregon45]  
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Jim the Plumber Online content
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6.5x47 Lapua, 123 Serria's at 3050.

#4165610 - 06/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Jim the Plumber]  
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I have been going through a similar exercise and was actually considering the 6.5 remington magnum, but where I live in Aust, we can't get dies, brass or the like. I have shot a 260Rem for sometime and have not found it wanting so would probably lean this way...in fact I have just ordered another barrel in this cartridge.

I figure if I can't stop a deer with a 120grain BT or 125 Partition, I need more gun and would step up to my 7mmRM. Having said that it seem like everything I point the 260 at seems to end up in the freezer. It is a great little round that hits out of all proportion to its size.

This is an excellent article if you are considering some of the smaller offerings.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

Good luck

LowBC


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#4165931 - 06/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: LowBC]  
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I would go with a 6.5x47 Lapua with 130g Berger VLDs.

#4166141 - 06/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Oregon45]  
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6.5/06 with 140gr Bergers. With a light palma contour it won't be a flyweight so go long action for the case capacity. 260 AI can get close but you'll need a centerfeed mag/bottom metal for it to feed reliably, so an ADL long action will wind up lighter.

Alpha

#4166168 - 06/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Take_a_knee]  
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Originally Posted by 280rules
6.5/06 with 140gr Bergers. With a light palma contour it won't be a flyweight so go long action for the case capacity. 260 AI can get close but you'll need a centerfeed mag/bottom metal for it to feed reliably, so an ADL long action will wind up lighter.


He wanted a short action caliber, I dont think an 06 based case fits into a short action.

#4166419 - 06/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: kyreloader]  
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i went with the 6.5x47 lapua, and it should be done in a couple more months. good ballistics, great brass, good barrel life, not a tone of downside to that one;)

I will be using it for most of what you want to do, and it should fit the bill perfectly! that demigod article someone posted up is a great read.


#4167132 - 06/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: lovdasnow]  
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.260 Rem if you handload. 6.5 Creedmoore if you don't.

The 6.5x47 just can't quite keep up with the .260. You'll be able to get around 2925fps with RE17 and no pressure issues. At least, that's what I'm getting out of my Brux.


RLTW
#4167524 - 06/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: greentimber]  
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I'm totally baffled why one would choose a 6.5x47 over the 260 Rem?

Makes no sense except for maybe superior Lapua brass but that would not be enough for me to choose it.


#4167766 - 06/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: SU35]  
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How 'bout the 6.5-284? The best performance you can get out of a short action with that bolt face.


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#4167873 - 06/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: SU35]  
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Originally Posted by SU35
I'm totally baffled why one would choose a 6.5x47 over the 260 Rem?

Makes no sense except for maybe superior Lapua brass but that would not be enough for me to choose it.



That is the only reason I have ever been given. You can get Norma .260 brass. I think that should do away with that argument.


#4168100 - 06/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Tennessee]  
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260 Ack Imp w/8 twist

Min 27" tube......

Lapua 308 brass necked down & FF'd

Last edited by tikkanut; 06/14/10.
#4168292 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Tennessee]  
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Originally Posted by Tennessee
Originally Posted by SU35
I'm totally baffled why one would choose a 6.5x47 over the 260 Rem?

Makes no sense except for maybe superior Lapua brass but that would not be enough for me to choose it.



That is the only reason I have ever been given. You can get Norma .260 brass. I think that should do away with that argument.



brass doesn't have to say Norma to be good brass..

I do just fine necking down Rem 308 nickel brass or Winchester 7/08 and 308 brass for my 260s..

6.5 x 47 is just trying to reinvent the wheel, when compared to a 260..

so for short action, my pick would be the 260 of course..

long action, my favorite is the rare, 6.5 x 57... just because so few folks shoot it, but all you do is neck up 257 Roberts brass and you are good to go..


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#4168309 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Seafire]  
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I had heard that the 6.5x284 worked better in a long action and fed better too. Not sure about the feeding issues but either way, not sure how much you gain over a 260rem in a short action compared to a 6.5x284 in the smae action. I would imagine at 600 yards it wouldn't be more than a few inches.


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#4168674 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: LowBC]  
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In my short action 6.5-284 I gain 250 fps over the 260.

#4168709 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: SU35]  
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Originally Posted by SU35
I'm totally baffled why one would choose a 6.5x47 over the 260 Rem?

Makes no sense except for maybe superior Lapua brass but that would not be enough for me to choose it.



I would choose it because of the Lapua brass and improved case design (longer neck, small rifle primers).

Does that make enough difference to choose it over a 260?

It would to me.


Last edited by kyreloader; 06/15/10. Reason: spelling
#4168812 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: SU35]  
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Originally Posted by SU35
I'm totally baffled why one would choose a 6.5x47 over the 260 Rem?

Makes no sense except for maybe superior Lapua brass but that would not be enough for me to choose it.


What is the performance in the two cartridges in equal length barrels?


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#4169091 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Oregon45]  
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264 magnum is probably the best long range cartridge ever developed, however if you want the barrel to last longer I would go with the 6.5-284.

#4169152 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Freddy]  
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.260, if Laupua had made brass for it a few years ago I dont think you would have even seen the 6.5x47 in the US market. I was struggling with this one as well but I went the easy way out and built a .243...

I also like the 6.5 Creedmore and the fact it is domesticly available.


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#4169340 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: varmintsinc]  
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6.5-06


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#4169592 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: bea175]  
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I think the impetus behind WHY Lapua came out w/the 47 was ammo/brass sales, cornered the market w/a proprietary round.

I have wanted a 47, but 95+ percent sure I am doing a 260 on my Fluted Varmint Bartlein 8 twist, 23", that will be screwed on an Alpine action.

More and more brass and ammo options being developed. The 47 has few cons, but according to many, it must be pushed hard to match or come close to 260 performance w/heavier bullets.

The 47 surely will equal or better accuracy, but the difference may not be meaningful outside bonafide official competition. Quality custom 260s w/good loads run very tight accuracy and brass can be ready made.

If I wanted to step up in performance w/no concern on bbl life, a 6.5-284 might get the nod. A 260 AI will come close to it as well w/a little longer bore life.

http://www.snipercentral.com/match260ammo.htm

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/?p=1

http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case-for-260-remington/?p=1

If you want cheap affordable factory ammo and ready for competition, the Creedmoor is compelling, but I'd rather the common 308 brass based 260 for simplicity and accessibility to common brass for handloading.

They are VERY close in performance, but subtle differences-pros/cons to each.

Good luck.




#4169874 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
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The 47 has few cons, but according to many, it must be pushed hard to match or come close to 260 performance w/heavier bullets.


It's obvious the 47 needs higher pressures to match 260 MV and I would think this would negate any edge it may have in longer throat/barrel life.

I have to ask, is there a potential problem with ignition in cold weather using a small rifle primer with the 47?
I would think for a hunting rifle I would avoid it.

In my 6.5-284 I can attain 260 Imp speeds with lower pressure by going to a slower but accurate powder, according to QL.
AND, I don't have to buy expensive 260 imp dies and fire-form.





#4169888 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: SU35]  
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I have seen problems with small rifle primers in extreme cold more than once....minus 25 to 40F. They dont always go bang.


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#4170225 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: kyreloader]  
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Originally Posted by kyreloader
I would choose it because of the Lapua brass and improved case design (longer neck, small rifle primers).

Does that make enough difference to choose it over a 260?

It would to me.



Lapua is making Palma 308 cases... 308 Win w/ small primer pockets. There is your quality 260 brass.

I've been debating this same issue in my mind as well. I'm leaning 6.5x55 Swede, but I have a Mauser rather than short action. If I had a short action I think I'd go 260 Rem, personally.


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#4170835 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: efw]  
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Having done both, in short action, I would go with 260AI. I prefer long actions for the 6.5-284. The next step up is the 6.5-280 imp... not a short action candidate.

With R17, you can get 2950 with a 24" 260 AI and 130 Bergers. With a 27" barrel, I'll bet you can get closer to 3100.


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#4170874 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: dennisinaz]  
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Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Having done both, in short action, I would go with 260AI.


What did you have to do to get it to feed? Terry Cross says a 260ai needs a centerfeed mag, so there goes any weight savings over an ADL long action

#4170993 - 06/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Take_a_knee]  
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I shot for several years in competition the 6.5x284 and did well with it.It's not finicky but it will eat a barrel.
Are you looking for extreme performance or do you need some life in your gun.
If I were to do it again, it would be the 6.5x08 just because I don't like changing barrels out after 800 rounds.

#4171015 - 06/16/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: SU35]  
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Originally Posted by SU35
In my short action 6.5-284 I gain 250 fps over the 260.


I'd sure like to compare velocities of several bullet weights..

in a 260, I can run 140s at 2750 to 2850 depending upon powder...

so can your 6.5 x 284 loads beat that by 250 fps?

if so, then that is impressive..

In my testing, I didn't see that much of an increase on all the loads I tried..\

If the 6.5 x 284 did beat the 260, it was only by about 50 fps..

I had the good fortune of being able to borrow a friends rifle for testing against my 260, when I was looking to build a long range 6.5 on a Model 70 action..


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#4171016 - 06/16/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Seafire]  
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I must confess of being able to handle a Savage 111 Long Range Hunter in 6.5 x 284...

I must admit, if you want a turn key 6.5 x 284, I'd look real hard at one of those.. price for one at Sportsman's was $725.00, which is not too bad on today's market..

Its an impressive package...and is built the right way..


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#4171131 - 06/16/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Seafire]  
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I've had no issues with Remington 260 brass. Maybe in BR there are issues but certainly not reaching book + speeds and very respectable accuracy. YMMV.


#4171841 - 06/16/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Seafire]  
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Seafire, I was easily able to get 3100 fps out of my 6.5x284 with RL17 powder in my 28 inch barrel. H4831 topped out about 2950 fps. (not sure if 28" barrel in cancelling factor in your comparison)

No dog in this fight, just quoting my experience.

My barrel only lasted about 1200 rounds however before accuracy went away.

#4172280 - 06/16/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: kyreloader]  
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what bullet? I shot exclusively 142's at 20-25 round strings with N165. The barrels lasted 800-850 rds and then some wild a**ed flyers at 1K.

#4172328 - 06/16/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: rgrx1276]  
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How bout the new 6.5mm 144 gr SMK

#4172424 - 06/16/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Seafire]  
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I'd sure like to compare velocities of several bullet weights..

in a 260, I can run 140s at 2750 to 2850 depending upon powder...

so can your 6.5 x 284 loads beat that by 250 fps?

if so, then that is impressive..

In my testing, I didn't see that much of an increase on all the loads I tried..\

If the 6.5 x 284 did beat the 260, it was only by about 50 fps..

I had the good fortune of being able to borrow a friends rifle for testing against my 260, when I was looking to build a long range 6.5 on a Model 70 action..


In my 260, shooting 130's H4350 45.5g I was getting maxed at 2,900 mv.
In the 6.5-284 130s, 61g of RS Magnum I am getting 3,150 mv.

In the 260 I shot 140's 50g of RL25 at 2,800 mv.
In the 6.5-284 I'm getting 3,050 with
both Magnum 60g and RL 17 50g.

This is in a short action 700 with Wyatts box.

Same rifle, re-chambered barrel.


#4174169 - 06/17/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: SU35]  
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I would run a 6.5-06 Ackley. Running just over 3200fps with a 27" barrel and a 140 berger. Well under 1/2moa accuracy, standard bolt face, cheap brass, and low recoil. Not sure what barrel life will be yet. Of the ones I have built, most of them are strictly hunting rifles, so they will probably last quite awhile. Mine gets put through the test alot though, and I am keeping a log of how many rounds.


***Whoops, just noticed he wanted a short action. I would probably run a 6.5x47L or a straight 260. Pretty close to the same ballistically, one is cheaper to shoot than the other.

Last edited by TMR; 06/17/10.
#4175630 - 06/17/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: TMR]  
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Originally Posted by TMR
I would run a 6.5-06 Ackley. Running just over 3200fps with a 27" barrel and a 140 berger. Well under 1/2moa accuracy, standard bolt face, cheap brass, and low recoil.


What action and were there any feeding issues with the Ackley? IE, did rails or the feed ramp need modifying?

#4175834 - 06/17/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Take_a_knee]  
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Sometime back, I put in for a new 6.5 caliber barrel in a fluted stainless offering. I already had a wore out 30-06 sporter type in a model 70 Winchester. So the 6.5 cal was a no brainer since I wanted a lightweight rifle in a caliber that offered more big game ability than my 25-06 that had been taking deer and speed goats for the last dozen years of so.

I don't do much long range work with this rifle, it was really built to take up the slack of the down the road 1/4 bore I used to carry. It shoots .650 MOA at 100 yards (Sierra bullets) and others have shot this rifle and had groups under 3 inches at 300 yards. It makes for one heck of a mule dear gun and will certainly take a bull elk in a pinch with the proper weight bullet. I still have a bunch of those Hornady 160 grain pills from the 70's.


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#4176040 - 06/17/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Take_a_knee]  
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Originally Posted by 280rules
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Having done both, in short action, I would go with 260AI.


What did you have to do to get it to feed? Terry Cross says a 260ai needs a centerfeed mag, so there goes any weight savings over an ADL long action


He needs to find a new gunsmith. They feed, not as slickly as the parent case, but feed pretty good. As yes, I know who he is. He only says that it isn't "reliable enough for a sniper rifle".

Last edited by dennisinaz; 06/17/10.

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#4176071 - 06/17/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Oregon45]  
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6.5-284 for sure. If you only wanted to shoot to 600 at your local range for fun the 260 is choice, but... if you are going to 1000 in benchrest matches the 6.5-284 exists for a reason. With a custom chambered barrel you have lots of options. 140 gr VLD bullets seated into the rifling don't need much throat (ask Mr. Berger) and single shot followers make more sense in 14+ lb rifles. 6.5-284 for sure.


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#4176271 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FVA]  
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The biggest problem with 260rem is that not enough of the gun manufacturers support it. I can't work out why remington don't have one in their varmint rifle range. I must confess to myself eyeing off one of those Sako 85 Varmints in 260rem...would it be wrong to have two 260's smile


Experience is something you get, just after you needed it.
#4176498 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: LowBC]  
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Quote
I can't work out why remington don't have one in their varmint rifle range.

They had one but nobody bought it. They had the heavy barrel VLS model available in .260 for two years. Was back in the late 90s if I recall correctly. They're rarely seen on the used market.

#4176644 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: biglmbass]  
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Originally Posted by biglmbass
Quote
I can't work out why remington don't have one in their varmint rifle range.

They had one but nobody bought it. They had the heavy barrel VLS model available in .260 for two years. Was back in the late 90s if I recall correctly. They're rarely seen on the used market.


People bought everyone they made, I doubt they are sitting on crates of 'em somewhere. The remington marketing people are absolute morons, I submit the SAUM fiasco as evidence. The SAUM is a far superior design than the WSM, and rem strangled their own kid.

#4176954 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: LowBC]  
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65BR Offline
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Originally Posted by LowBC
The biggest problem with 260rem is that not enough of the gun manufacturers support it. I can't work out why remington don't have one in their varmint rifle range. I must confess to myself eyeing off one of those Sako 85 Varmints in 260rem...would it be wrong to have two 260's smile


Nope, own 2 Sako's now, Grey Wolf and Varmint....in the process of a Borden Custom Alpine w/fluted heavy bbl.

Certainly a few Loonies here supporting it wink

#4177092 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
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yep; had a Rem 700 VLS barreled action .260 in a Mcm HTG and like an idiot, sold it a couple years back; am still kicking myself. So I had Dave Sink build me another heavy barrel .260 on a FN action, Benchmark barrel, and Mcm HTG; she is a one holer at 100 with factory (Rem) ammo....

Go .260 and don't look back; you can push 140's to 2700 FPs and that is where they are most accurate anyway....

#4177127 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: kyreloader]  
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Originally Posted by kyreloader
Seafire, I was easily able to get 3100 fps out of my 6.5x284 with RL17 powder in my 28 inch barrel. H4831 topped out about 2950 fps. (not sure if 28" barrel in cancelling factor in your comparison)

No dog in this fight, just quoting my experience.

My barrel only lasted about 1200 rounds however before accuracy went away.


well the velocity is impressive!

the barrel life.. well that is not too impressive..

I hope my comment didn't give thoughts of me trying to invoke a contest here..

it just verifies my thoughts on velocity versus barrel life..

I lean toward barrel life.. and if I am shooting longer range, I rely on elevation adjustments on the scope instead of velocity out of the muzzle..

I just like the academic accomplishment of your obtained MV..

always like to know the parameters, in case they are needed in a pinch..lets one know the capabilities of their cartridge and rifle, both on the high end and the low end..


Hillary Clinton In 2013: “I Would Like To See People Like Donald Trump Run For Office; They’re Honest And Can’t Be Bought”

#4177404 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Seafire]  
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Quote
and if I am shooting longer range, I rely on elevation adjustments on the scope instead of velocity out of the muzzle..


And that's dandy for targets but if you're hunting long range you will need the bullet to open up and for most makes the minimum speed needed is between 1,600 and 1,800 fps.


#4177550 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: SU35]  
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Amen to that Bob


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#4177838 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Take_a_knee]  
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Originally Posted by Take_a_knee
Originally Posted by TMR
I would run a 6.5-06 Ackley. Running just over 3200fps with a 27" barrel and a 140 berger. Well under 1/2moa accuracy, standard bolt face, cheap brass, and low recoil.


What action and were there any feeding issues with the Ackley? IE, did rails or the feed ramp need modifying?


Standard bolt face long action is all a guy needs. There are NO feeding problems with the Ackley's. Alot of bad press out there on how they feed. We run them in tactical match's and have never had a single problem. Including fast stages with 3 shots in under 15 seconds.....we have run the 3 shots in 7 seconds to be exact. When I build an Ackley, I smooth the feed ramp if there are alot of machining marks from the factory. This is very rarely needed, but occasionally I get a receiver that is pretty rough. They feed from BDL's, detachable mags, whatever.

#4177852 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: TMR]  
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How is the quality of Hornday's Creedmoor brass?

Last edited by RinB; 06/18/10.

"None of this is Rocket Surgery...."
#4178354 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: RinB]  
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Krumarine, thought about one of those FNs from CDNN, not a bad way to go for a cheap reliable action w/one pc. bolt handle IIRC.

What trigger - factory?

#4178400 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
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RinB
You can get a Ruger Varmint in Creedmoor. Don't know how well they sell or how many other manufacturers are supporting them.

Has anyone seen or shot the Ruger Creedmoor varmint rig???

LowBC


Experience is something you get, just after you needed it.
#4178469 - 06/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: LowBC]  
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Low BC Thanks for the tip I will look into it


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#4181323 - 06/20/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: sambo3006]  
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260 AAR or 6.5/08 AI!
Aloha, Mark


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#4218495 - 07/05/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: LowBC]  
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Originally Posted by LowBC
The biggest problem with 260rem is that not enough of the gun manufacturers support it. I can't work out why remington don't have one in their varmint rifle range. I must confess to myself eyeing off one of those Sako 85 Varmints in 260rem...would it be wrong to have two 260's smile


I have 3 of them.. plus one is in a factory Remington VLS...

plus I have 3 barrels that need to be mounted...all chambered in 260 Rem, and threaded to Model 70 actions..

and all have one in 8 twists except the Rem VLS which sports a one in 9...

so no, having 2 of them is not a problem...


Hillary Clinton In 2013: “I Would Like To See People Like Donald Trump Run For Office; They’re Honest And Can’t Be Bought”

#4218990 - 07/05/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Seafire]  
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i've got a 6.5-284 brewing in my mind right now. black hills and corbon make factory loads. probably will start gathering components this fall assuming my smith tells me i can do it in a short action without giving up too much. from what little research i've done it seems to be the best performing short action 6.5mm cartridge. Maybe 6.5 remington magnum or a wildcat 6.5 saum/wsm would do better but i'm not a reloader yet and factory ammo in those is basically non-existent.

#4220596 - 07/06/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Freddy]  
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I agree totally with your pic for long range[264 Win mag]However,I have been shooting the same custom rifle I built in 1970 with a steady diet of H-570 and 130-140 gr pills with no throat or barrel errosion.A good quality tube and common sense reloads will give you extended barrel life in any magnum caliber.I still don't know why the 264 always gets such a bad rap with all the Weatherby barrel burners out there!!!


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

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Woody
#4225625 - 07/07/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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Fleming I agree on the 264 Win Mag I have been shooting my Remington model 721 since 1963 and finally replaced the barrel last summer. The original barrel had all bullets from 85gr HP to 165gr round nose max loads to 7grs under max. The key is to not over heat the barrel. My new Shilen 30 inch heavy barrel does not heat up to what the original barrel did and I am sure this new barrel will out live me.

#4227131 - 07/08/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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Short action = 6.5X284 OR 260AI....................Long Action NO BRAINER 264WinMag!!!!!

#4230719 - 07/09/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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264 WM--Sounds like you have gone all out with that rebarrel job--a 30" tube should be able to ring every bit of 6.5 performance out of that remington!!!My pride and joy was built in 1970--FN Mauser action/Timmony trigger and air-gaged
26"Douglas supreme barrel with medium taper.Action bedded and full float on the tube.According to ballistics charts and benchrest shooting my 140s depart at just shy of 3200.Recently switched to Barnes 130 gr triple shocks and they even shoot tighter and flatter which really suprised me for a solid copper pill!!!You are absolutely right, cool barrels can last almost a life time --I have probably launched close to 700-800 rds over the years out of my 264 which I know seems like alot but have done it with great care.
Nice to visit with you,
Flem


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4230892 - 07/09/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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Fleming sounds like you have a keeper also. My gunsmith glass bedded the action and the chamber because of the barrel weight and free floated the rest of the barrel and bead blasted the barrel to prevent glare and light reflection.

#4307248 - 08/07/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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6.5-284 never did it for me, SA caliber that needs a LA to do what it claims.

Have a gaggle of 260s... they're the every day workhorse from a true SA.

Also pretty well acquainted with the 264, have had several, only have 1 right now... but have to admit with less than a 26 or 28 tube a 6.5-06 crowds it pretty hard with less powder.

Recently built a 6.5-300 RCM. True short action, feeds like butter, case designed for 65ksi, capacity trumps the 06, Rem mag, and 284 by 4 grains or so. If one has to ask why, for a Ruger and 6.5 slut it was a natural progression. Logic need not apply... wink


"Your range of experience runs that gamut from A to B, plus you're a nitwit. That's a hard combination to overcome, though some people try." - JB
#4321475 - 08/12/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: MattMan]  
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keith Online content
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6.5/7 Mag AI

120's at 3650-3700 fps

#4321557 - 08/12/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: keith]  
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WOW, just how far do you need to shoot something wink When I had a 7mag, 115s at 3375 was hot/fast/flat, but LOUD and a good bit of recoil.

Do you use a brake?

#4322097 - 08/12/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
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A gunsmith down in Dalton Ga made a good living building these custom rifles for deer hunters that liked to hunt power lines.

I went down to pick up a 7 STW from him and there were 5 of these guys in the shop talking bullets, barrels, etc.

Between the 5 guys, they had made 64 one shot kills on deer, with NONE needing a second shot.

What is even more amazing, they all shot the 120g Match King!

#4322179 - 08/12/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: keith]  
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Originally Posted by keith
6.5/7 Mag AI

120's at 3650-3700 fps


dream on...


Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
#4322804 - 08/12/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: toad]  
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I did some research and can't find one word on this 6.5/7 mag AI. The 7 mag is the same case as the 264 so they should have the same powder capacity. It would seem to be re-inventing the wheel.

#4323085 - 08/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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yes and yes.

you'd have to push the 6.5-.300 Weatherby pretty hard to get those speeds with 32" barrel, and that would only be possible because the Wby cases are good to 65K psi and have quite a bit more capicity


Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
#4323097 - 08/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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264 I agree I looked this one up in my "Ackley volumes and the only thing that comes close is a 7x61 Sharpe and Hart necked to 6.5..with almost identical 264 win mag ballistics...these belted cartridges in this group have almost equal case capacity except of course for the Weatherby's.....FLEM


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4325570 - 08/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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Maybe we could have a super 6.5 by necking down the 50 BMG to 6.5 except I don't think the bullets would stay in one piece at the speeds you could push a 100 gr bullet. I wonder how many grains of H4831 it would hold just thinking 300 to 400 grains. Thats got to be a big bang for the buck.

#4325904 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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Yea...and you'd have to have a set of wheels on that 60 inch barrel!!!!


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4326039 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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Just put a H2 under it with a 360 rail and turret. We would be taking rock chucks at 3000 yrds.

#4326146 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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THERE YOU GO !!!!!


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4326845 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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We could call it the 264 super mag and sell a package H2 and mounted gun say for 150G. LOL

#4326912 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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All craziness aside what is your all time favorite 264 load in say 140's


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4327122 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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I hate to say it but the only 140 hand loads were given to me and they were the partitions with 64.8 gr H4831 and they shot great. My favorite is the 100gr HP with 72 gr H4831.

#4327154 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: toad]  
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Checked my notes again that he gave me, I made a mistake, the velocity was 3550-3600, depending on the barrel, 26" barrels only.

One guy had a 28" barrel and he was getting 3650. The Gunsmith had a special name for the cartridge that he had made up, but it was a 6.5/7Mag AI. They were using Weatherby 257 brass, which is soft. I got them some 257 Weatherby brass made by PMC, and they were all very happy because it is MUCH harder and would take the pressures.

I have no actual experience with the cartridge, but he did show me targets with Ohler 35P print outs of the velocity. More important, the guys standing there were the testimony of what the cartridge would do.

I was able to best his wild cat with my 7 STW shooting the 140's at speeds I won't speak of using PMC 300 Weatherby cases, which are tough as nails.

Pacific Tool and Grinding made this guy's reamers, that is where I would start to do the research on...they keep files on reamers and will mail a print.

Last edited by keith; 08/14/10.
#4327173 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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That 100 HPT must really be movin on!! Did you ever graph it???


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4327262 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: keith]  
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the .264 Win. is within 2 grains capacity of the .257 Wby.(82 grains H20 vs. 84 grains H20). so i don't see huge gains coming from a step up like that, even with the step up to 65000 psi pressure of the weatherby parent case.

for conversation, let's take the 6.71 Lazzeroni BlackBird, a case that has 105 grains H20 capacity and load it to max pressure (63817 psi or 4400 BAR) via 82 gr RE 25 under a 120 NBT. ~3383 fps from a 26" tube.


Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
#4327265 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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I shoot the 140 C/T bullets & over max loads of IMR 7828 in Winchester 7 STW brass or Fireformed 300 Weatherby to 7 STW. Only the C/T bullets will get this speed, go to the same bullet in 140g Ballistic tip and max load is much less due to pressure issues.

My "graph" is a Ohler 35P and a Pact Professional with Ohler Screens.

Bob Sutton was the name of the gunsmith in Dalton, Ga that was building these 6.5 wild cats.

#4327341 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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264wm Offline
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I don't have access to a crono so I am not sure how fast but the 30 inch barrel should be using all the powder. I just finished sight in at 60 yards with my new Nikon scope I really surprised my self as I bore sighted it the old fashioned way by looking down the inside of the barrel and my first shot was 2 inches left and dead on for elevation. I was able to hit a cantelope size rock with a 95gr VMax at 300yrds first shot after sight in. I really like the Nikons sight picture and side Knob focus.

#4327548 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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Thinking about some new optics for mine ..which Nikon did you get?


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4327883 - 08/14/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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I have the Nikon 6 to 18 buckmasters with BDC. I chose Nikon because I have used there surveying insruments and they are quality telescopes.

#4327933 - 08/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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I have been looking at very good prices on Both Nikon and upper end Pentax at Optics Planet...not sure which one yet,over the years I've had very good cameras from both manufacturers and may go the Pentax route..I like their range reticle with the lines a little more than Nikons circles...think either one would be super once you got your load dialed in.


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4329242 - 08/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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Here it is.



[Linked Image]

#4330005 - 08/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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30" of barrel is a schitt load of steel...

grin I can just picture the entire butt and likely the scope sticking out the top of my Eberle...

Last edited by MattMan; 08/15/10.

"Your range of experience runs that gamut from A to B, plus you're a nitwit. That's a hard combination to overcome, though some people try." - JB
#4330290 - 08/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: MattMan]  
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264wm Offline
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When I went to Wyoming to hunt elk on my brother inlaws place last fall when I pulled it of my truck the first thing I herd uttered was Holy Schitt wheres the wheels to pull that thing behind the truck. I had to offset the gun rack on my 700 Griz so it would stick out equal on both sides.

#4330319 - 08/15/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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That's nice ..what's it weigh??


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4330596 - 08/16/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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264win mag cause its the best flat shooter there is!


Our F1-11 gets retired this week. What a shame.
#4332767 - 08/16/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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It is 12 1/2 lbs empty.

#4335252 - 08/17/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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Not as bad as I thought...I was thinking somewhere around 15..Keep in touch let me know how you do hunting this fall !!!!>FLEM


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4335568 - 08/17/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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65BR Offline
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Dang Flem! Your lady must be a VERY Happy Woman wink

#4335922 - 08/17/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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I will and on saturday the 7th my brother inlaw and I took a scouting trip into the high country of Okanogan county, we saw 1 bear and 4 whitetail bucks one of which had at least 5 or 6 points each side and a heavy tall rack.when we stoped he was off like a rocket and just got the binoculars on him before he hit the timber. Here is a pair of sheds I found 2 years ago in one of my favorite areas. Havent spotted him yet but would sure like to get him in my scope.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

#4335998 - 08/17/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Oregon45]  
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Near Hobble Creek Canyon, Utah
Originally Posted by Oregon45
Assume a Krieger stainless 1/8.5" twist barrel, light-Palma contour, finished at either 26" or 28" (I don't like waiting: Sinclair Int'l has these in stock)

Assume a short action, .473" bolt face action.

Intended use is paper punching out to 600 yards regularly, and 1000 yards very occasionally (my home range has a 600 yard facility; 1000 yard ranges in the area would require a special trip to get to). Known distance ranges probably 95% of the time with very occasional long range shooting on public land (I do this about once a year, given the drive-time to really wide open Oregon from where I live).

Stock will be either a McMillan or, and I have to read more on this, an Eliseo tube gun rifle stock. Rifle weight will be under 14 pounds. No muzzle brake so if I want to enter a match (either F-open or high power open) I should be able to with a few equipment tweaks.

Thoughts?


Oregon45,

With what you described, the 6.5x47 or 260 Rem or 6.5 CM would work just fine.

The 47 Lapua brass has fantastic consistency and is mule strong so no need to shop around. The 260 Rem has numerous brands and should not be too hard to "make" the brass good. I use Nosler brand. The 6.5 CM only has one brass source; hope it's good enough.

I have both a 260 Rem, which I love and a 6.5x47 17 lb tactical rifle (Surgeon 591, Krieger, AICS, NF 5.5-22x50)which I dearly love. With the 47 I pop off 130 VLD's at 2800 with H4350 and CCI 450's. Groups are consistently .6 MOA or better out to 1K yds. I developed my loads during the winter @ 6565' elev in Utah and never had a problem with ignition. Though I can't say I shot anything at sub zero temps; sub teens! Also push 140 VLD's a skootch over 2900 with Rel 17; 26" barrel.

What you're building will be a lot of fun to shoot. Once you get it shooting, you don't want to have to worry about burning out the barrel and starting load development all over again. You'll just want to shoot it "as is" and shoot and shoot and shoot.

Alan

Oh, and I'm having Chris Matthews of Longshot rifles (he built my tactical rig) build a hunting rifle; Pierce short action, Broughton #3.1, 26", 1:8, McM Rem Sporter Edge fill with NF 2.5-10x32, Rifle Basix......................

6.5x47L grin grin


Last edited by GSSP; 08/17/10.

[Linked Image]
#4338722 - 08/18/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
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65..not sure what you mean??


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4343531 - 08/20/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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MY bad, it was directed at the owner of that LONG TUBED 264.

That would be 264 WM. Sorry for the confusion. It was in jest.

#4349258 - 08/22/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
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In that case She's always happy

#4359441 - 08/26/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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LMAO!!!!!!!! Your a good man, and honest too I am sure!

Sorry Flyboy.....LOL.

#4360256 - 08/26/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
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65BR One thing about it that long tool don't heat up like the skinny short ones, so much longer life and accuracy and you don't need to be close.LYAO on that one.

#4360547 - 08/27/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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laugh laugh laugh

#4362976 - 08/28/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Oregon45]  
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Originally Posted by Oregon45
Assume a Krieger stainless 1/8.5" twist barrel, light-Palma contour, finished at either 26" or 28" (I don't like waiting: Sinclair Int'l has these in stock)

Assume a short action, .473" bolt face action.

Intended use is paper punching out to 600 yards regularly, and 1000 yards very occasionally (my home range has a 600 yard facility; 1000 yard ranges in the area would require a special trip to get to). Known distance ranges probably 95% of the time with very occasional long range shooting on public land (I do this about once a year, given the drive-time to really wide open Oregon from where I live).

Stock will be either a McMillan or, and I have to read more on this, an Eliseo tube gun rifle stock. Rifle weight will be under 14 pounds. No muzzle brake so if I want to enter a match (either F-open or high power open) I should be able to with a few equipment tweaks.

Thoughts?

Ive just had a 6.5 06 built for hunting krieger stainless barrel but 25 inches.Weighs 12.3lb with scope and bipod.Shoots like a dream
[Linked Image]

#4367117 - 08/29/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
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65..now I get the drift no apologies necessary!!!....FLEM


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#4372222 - 08/31/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: FlyboyFlem]  
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LOL

#4402950 - 09/10/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
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Why the 6.5x47Lapua?? Here's a couple reasons why:

The below group is 17 rounds fired from 1000 yds. Two rounds over on left at 9 o/clock were my sighters and I let one break out of the X ring just a tat below those two during the remaining 15 rounds.

[Linked Image]

The below 5 round group was shot from 1300 yards using the same load and I could cover these 5 with the back of my fist! This cartridge/rifle combo has done this for me on three different occasions. This was my first group fired from this distance and I did not have a definitive zero but it was in the black so I fired 4 remaining rounds. I have since centered the group.

[Linked Image]





"It ain't the arrow! It's the Indian!"
#4403162 - 09/10/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Sharpsman]  
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What is so special about the 6.5x47 Lapua. everything I read about it indicates that the 264wm out performs it pushing 140 gr bullets faster and flater than the 129 gr in the lapua and the same bullet at least 500fps or more faster and very little recoil in my 12 1/2 lb Rem 721. in fact you can still see your target in the scope after the shot.Just wondering if these targets were certified at those distances and what bullet were you using as at that distance they must have been crawling to the target.

#4403715 - 09/11/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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It's the 'new kid on the block' as now the Creedmoor has that place.

It uses high quality Lapua brass and tends to be very accurate, and it is efficient, and effective. YET, so close to the 6.5-08.

If one wants performance, it will not hang trajectory/energy wise w/the 264.

That said, if one's shooting dictates the 47 has the goods, then it's fine.

After doing my recent 260 on a heavier bbl, I plan to do a 6.5 on a sporter, likely either another 260 or perhaps a 47.

The 264 intrigues me, as the 7mm version was just too much for me to enjoy it. Perhaps a 264 in a heavy rifle is a joy and would make we switch ranges to get out to 1,000 for the heck of it.

What does your bbl life average 264wm? I hear if you don't get them hot, they do much better, like a Swift.

Do you shoot 3 and stop, or 5? What contour bbl? Thanks.

#4403956 - 09/11/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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Originally Posted by 264wm
What is so special about the 6.5x47 Lapua. everything I read about it indicates that the 264wm out performs it pushing 140 gr bullets faster and flater than the 129 gr in the lapua and the same bullet at least 500fps or more faster and very little recoil in my 12 1/2 lb Rem 721. in fact you can still see your target in the scope after the shot.Just wondering if these targets were certified at those distances and what bullet were you using as at that distance they must have been crawling to the target.


264wm

"Just wondering if these targets were certified at those distances and what bullet were you using"

Yes...those targets WERE CERTIFIED....BY ME!! I'm 70 years old and unlike some 'youth of the day'....I don't BS OR LIE! I guess that's from growing up with a Dad that would have had a #12 boot up my arse had he caught me in a lie!! So you'll just have to take my word on the validity of those targets....which I shoot quite often! Targets fired prone using the bipod I might add.

As for the load, I was using the Sierra 123 gr. HPBT with 38.3 grs. Varget, BR4 primers, and Lapua brass! At this loading I figure I should be able to get quite a bit over 2500 rds. without the accuracy going south due to throat erosion! And with the Lapua brass, no neck turning or other BS being required. Weigh the charges, seat the bullet and go shoot! With 'fist-sized' groups from 1300 yds. they 'were crawling' quite well!!

Here's my range. I drive 500 yards north of my homesite and I'm at the 1000 yd. firing line. This photo taken from around the 1250 yd. line late one afternoon! Think this was taken with 17X telephoto lens!

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Sharpsman; 09/11/10. Reason: Added photo!

"It ain't the arrow! It's the Indian!"
#4405294 - 09/11/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
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With my new heavy barrel after 8 rounds of 100gr Balistic Tip with 65gr H4831 you can still grab the barrel and not get burned. The original Remington barrel after 5 rounds of 100gr HP with 70gr H4831 would give a bad burn if you grabed it. It lasted from 1963 until 2009 and I tryed not to shoot more than 5 rounds without a cool down. My new barrel is a 30" Shilen with a taper starting at 1 1/4" dia to 3/4" dia at the muzzle it has 1 in 8 twist, hand lapped stainles steel, bead blasted with a 11 degree crown. The action and chamber are glass bedded to support the weight and the rest of the barrel is free floating. Recoil is very mild. My belief is if you want to rapid fire get a AR platform which I am considering in 338 federal which has impressive baslistics and energy for a short round.

#4405539 - 09/11/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Sharpsman]  
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I will be 65 on the 23rd so I understand the boot. Most people don't understand how far 1000 yards is let alone 1300 yards. Here is a picture of my back poarch shooting range. The fence on the far edge of my pasture is 65 yards and the other side of the fence is State game dept. land for hunting or fishing and I can set targets as far as i want to walk.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by 264wm; 09/11/10.
#4405565 - 09/11/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Sharpsman]  
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Great shooting sharpsman. The best 10 shot group at 800 yards I have ever seen was shot with my 6.5x47. My buddy stacked all but two of those on a 2 inch target spot, the other two were so close to that spot that they cut the edge of the stick on dot. Same bullet using vv550 if I recall.

#4406631 - 09/12/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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264wm

"Most people don't understand how far 1000 yards is let alone 1300 yards."

I have many shooters that come to my range each year some of which just wish to sight in their deer rifles and others that wish to learn LR shooting. I have asked many to stand on my 300 yard line and look at a 20"x20" steel plate and tell me at what distance it is and more than 60% will tell me...."Why that's at least 500 yards!"Some tell me 600 yards so when you hear some guy make a comment "I killed my buck at 600 yards"....you can basically count on it being absolutely BS of the highest order! On occasion I've asked some of these 'Carlos Hathcocks' about how their rifles are equipped....and it's mighty hard to listen to the responses given without laughing because many tell me that they've got their rifles sighted in dead on at 25 yards and when I ask them how they 'held' on that deer they shot from 600 yards....well...most say that they held the crosswire right at the top of the back!! "Nuff said!"

As for shooting LR and making good hits, yes...many people don't or can't visualize 1000 yards! But shooting at that distance or even 1500 yards is not an impossible thing to do! It's all a matter of HOW YOUR MIND IS GEARED!! The rifle doesn't know whether it's shooting 50 ft. or 1000 or more yards; the shooters mind does so it's a psychological problem or a 'mental block' that the shooter has to overcome! The high degree of precision with which our rifles are built today and the fantastic components with which we have to work....all are capable of delivering fantastic accuracy way out beyond all heretobefore distances that were thought of as Long Range! But....not in the hands of a novice! It takes lots of attention to detail concerning the Iron Clad Rules of Marksmanship which are unyielding in their nature and a steep learning curve on wind reading! It is not learned over night!!

HOLD HARD & STAY CENTER!!


"It ain't the arrow! It's the Indian!"
#4407943 - 09/12/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Sharpsman]  
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I was in high school when I bought my 264 in 1963, every one tried to convince me not to buy it saying it was to much gun for a 6'2" 180 lb kid but being the stubern guy I am I bought it and have never regretted it. I have never had a need for a range finder, I have been guessing and measuring distances sinse I got out of the Navy in Nov 1968. You see I am a Licensed Land Surveyor in the state of Washington. I have walked more miles and paced more distances over every terrain Washington has to offer. I have paced many half miles searching GLO section corners and be within 50 feet + or - in rugged mountians. Most people can't guess how far 100 yards is.

#4408222 - 09/12/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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Anybody else playing with the .264 WSM? Fun little round nearly identicle to the .264 Win Mag in capacity, easy wildcat to load for, did I mention that it shoots too.

#4408512 - 09/12/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: EddyBo]  
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264wm Offline
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Who makes the rifle as I hadn't heard thy even made such a round.

#4408545 - 09/12/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
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Lots of smiths make em but I smithed my own. Dave kiff will send you a reamer. Order a 270WSM S-busing die make a straight line seating die or just use the 270WSM die. I thoated mine .200 longer than a standard .270WSM gives me a little more room in the case, but I can still load to fit the mag and stay in the lands, plus in the long action it feeds slick as pig snot.

#4409477 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: EddyBo]  
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What kind of barrel life do you expect from the .264WSM? I would suspect velocity to be quite high, less than 6.5x284??

#4409645 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: kyreloader]  
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In a hunting gun I do not really consider barrel life. All I need is enough barrel life to work up a load then a few hundred rounds for hunting and rechecking zero afew times every season. Basically in a hunting gun 1000 rounds of barrel life will last my life time. It does not work that way with my match rifles. I usually end up replacing several barrels a year.

#4410130 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: EddyBo]  
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Sat on a plane on the way to the SHOT show years ago, a smith on board, raved on the 6.5 WSM, and I love 6.5s. Asked about bbl life, it was not much. I like to shoot, alot, but re-bbl seldom, a budget consideration.

That said, I DID have an interest in the WSSM had it ever been mfg. It is said to be fickle getting brass done right, but it is one good looking little round.

The 6.5 WSM begs the question to me why? I mean a 270 WSM with say good 140 will do alot, and I know the 150 Ballistic Tips look like an ICBM they are so long and high BC/SD, less erosion/greater bore life, factory guns/ammo/dies, etc.

Just seems alot of trouble - the 6.5 WSM. The 284, 06 and Win Mag seem more practical solutions to long range 6.5s in my thinking.

Just me. Now if I were a smith, and had a lathe....I'd wildcat more I suppose.

#4410213 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Sharpsman]  
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Originally Posted by Sharpsman
264wm

"Most people don't understand how far 1000 yards is let alone 1300 yards."

I have many shooters that come to my range each year some of which just wish to sight in their deer rifles and others that wish to learn LR shooting. I have asked many to stand on my 300 yard line and look at a 20"x20" steel plate and tell me at what distance it is and more than 60% will tell me...."Why that's at least 500 yards!"Some tell me 600 yards so when you hear some guy make a comment "I killed my buck at 600 yards"....you can basically count on it being absolutely BS of the highest order! On occasion I've asked some of these 'Carlos Hathcocks' about how their rifles are equipped....and it's mighty hard to listen to the responses given without laughing because many tell me that they've got their rifles sighted in dead on at 25 yards and when I ask them how they 'held' on that deer they shot from 600 yards....well...most say that they held the crosswire right at the top of the back!! "Nuff said!"

As for shooting LR and making good hits, yes...many people don't or can't visualize 1000 yards! But shooting at that distance or even 1500 yards is not an impossible thing to do! It's all a matter of HOW YOUR MIND IS GEARED!! The rifle doesn't know whether it's shooting 50 ft. or 1000 or more yards; the shooters mind does so it's a psychological problem or a 'mental block' that the shooter has to overcome! The high degree of precision with which our rifles are built today and the fantastic components with which we have to work....all are capable of delivering fantastic accuracy way out beyond all heretobefore distances that were thought of as Long Range! But....not in the hands of a novice! It takes lots of attention to detail concerning the Iron Clad Rules of Marksmanship which are unyielding in their nature and a steep learning curve on wind reading! It is not learned over night!!

HOLD HARD & STAY CENTER!!


Very well put. Shooting LR has a few issues.. first the equipment has to be good enough.
Then the shooter has to be good enough.
And the brain has to be right.

Often all 3 fight each other and it takes a lot to figure out what to devote to what to solve the issues...

Once you sort them out though... you 'll know that you can go into that sub conscious state of mind in that you become really calm, tunnel visioned and the world leaves you... you can fire a shot almost in like in a vacuum...
But it takes a lot to get there.

Distance judging is so far off by most, me included, that I simply won't take a shot without a rangefinder... for starters.

When I used to guide.. we had one guide and hunter shot a blackbuck at over 800 yards... when they told me where... I laughed and said you can't see past 300 yards..... BS they says... so another hunter and I took off.. found the jeep tracks... found his empty 257 Wtby mag case from the shooting spot, found the blood of the blackbuck where he fell, and it was a nice shot for sure... around 275 ish yards by my rangefinder IIRC... I know it was under 300 anyway by a bit...

I've shot enough at 1000 and am constantly amazed that you can do ok there.... I've shot a big gun enough from 1300 to 1500 to be amazed too. And amazed at what a minor condition change is worth. But to also realize if the gun is capable, the shot isn't that bad if the conditions are readable.

Trust me I"m not saying that 1500 is a cake walk.. because 200 yards is not a cakewalk at times... but longer shots are workable.

I'll say this much too... not dissing anyone but when folks have their own ranges... it tells me a lot more too..... I never shot at home much past 600 due to a lay of the land issue and because I have a lot of deer on the back end... but shot a lot from 300 on in.. and plenty at 600 for load testing/practice... I have the ability to shoot at the 984 mark IIRC the distance correct but it would take more tree trimming that I can do without a bucket truck too....
Anyway those that have private ranges and can shoot distances a lot more.... than those that don't or have to drive to a range to do it... those folks tend to end up being better shooters in the end....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
#4410435 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: rost495]  
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xphunter  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,170
Wyoming
Confirmed drops with a McRee rear grip 6.5WSM Specialty Pistol today.
Temps in the low 80's.
Mirage got tough close to and at 1K, so I didn't shoot beyond 1K.

130 Berger at 3085 for a MV is pretty cool in a SP (Krieger 1-8 twist, just under 18").

Will use this for deer and antelope.


Ernie "The Un-Tactical"

[Linked Image]
http://sebrests-usa.com/
#4410454 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: rost495]  
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Sharpsman Offline
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Sharpsman  Offline
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Northeast Louisiana
rost495

Yes sir....I'm sitting here right now; it's 1810 hrs. and in about 30 more minutes I'm going to be sitting at the 1300 yard line. I'm waiting for the wind to die a little; want to see how this 6.5x47Lapua is gonna handle 41 grs. N550 with a 123 gr. SHPBT. I've been pretty successful using Varget but I've been hearing good reports about the N550 so I'll maybe see what it will do a little later! Unless it's raining or blowing like a Banshee...I shoot at least 30 rounds every day; 15 early AM and 15 late evening. Lately it's been averaging wide temp variations; 55F early and 90F to 97F in the evenings!! Anyone that doesn't think these wide temp swings aren't an eye-opener as for variation of zero...well...they've got a surprise coming!!


"It ain't the arrow! It's the Indian!"
#4410478 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,210
EddyBo Offline
Campfire Guide
EddyBo  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,210
SW MS
.615 for the 140 6.5 VLD VS .530 for the 150 .270 cal bullets may not seem like a lot of difference to you but I will take the .615 anyday over the .530.

I like to shoot a lot, for that reason I always have a couple of .308s 223s and 6bRs laying around. I preserve the barrels on my hunting rifles for preperation for a hunt and verifying my drop charts everyday when I am on a hunt and for occassional shooting.

Originally Posted by 65BR
Sat on a plane on the way to the SHOT show years ago, a smith on board, raved on the 6.5 WSM, and I love 6.5s. Asked about bbl life, it was not much. I like to shoot, alot, but re-bbl seldom, a budget consideration.

That said, I DID have an interest in the WSSM had it ever been mfg. It is said to be fickle getting brass done right, but it is one good looking little round.

The 6.5 WSM begs the question to me why? I mean a 270 WSM with say good 140 will do alot, and I know the 150 Ballistic Tips look like an ICBM they are so long and high BC/SD, less erosion/greater bore life, factory guns/ammo/dies, etc.

Just seems alot of trouble - the 6.5 WSM. The 284, 06 and Win Mag seem more practical solutions to long range 6.5s in my thinking.

Just me. Now if I were a smith, and had a lathe....I'd wildcat more I suppose.

#4410653 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Sharpsman]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 48,302
rost495 Offline
Campfire Oracle
rost495  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 48,302
La Grange, TX
Originally Posted by Sharpsman
rost495

Yes sir....I'm sitting here right now; it's 1810 hrs. and in about 30 more minutes I'm going to be sitting at the 1300 yard line. I'm waiting for the wind to die a little; want to see how this 6.5x47Lapua is gonna handle 41 grs. N550 with a 123 gr. SHPBT. I've been pretty successful using Varget but I've been hearing good reports about the N550 so I'll maybe see what it will do a little later! Unless it's raining or blowing like a Banshee...I shoot at least 30 rounds every day; 15 early AM and 15 late evening. Lately it's been averaging wide temp variations; 55F early and 90F to 97F in the evenings!! Anyone that doesn't think these wide temp swings aren't an eye-opener as for variation of zero...well...they've got a surprise coming!!


RE N550.. all the N500s like to burn hot.. IE you can get some crappy results from mild to medium loads.... I didn't like anything in N540 until I got about to max and then all i can say is WOW.. plus a bit of extra speed to boot..... So much so that we actually talked with Viht reps and were trying to buy N540 and 530 and 550 in the cardboard big something kilo kegs in bulk by the pallet load....

I have N560 to try later on in some of my larger rounds... but I'm at the point in life where I don't get to shoot much, and when I do, I try to make it bird hunting... the deer and such... thats more or less just take the same old thing that worked and use it to harvest...

Temps open your eyes.. Wind opens your eyes.. humidity ..... the funny part is you hear folks talk on the ranges... I don't know why I had to move my scope again...... DUH.. its not you or the gun or load, its the conditions... this at competition matches... folks have no idea what a data book is for and thats why most call it a score book....

BTW on the deer... OP called in a good set of coords?? or a luck shot you were not aware of.... simply curiuos... I've heard some pretty good things from tank gunners and deer....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
#4410938 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: rost495]  
Joined: Apr 2010
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Sharpsman Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Sharpsman  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Northeast Louisiana
rost495

[Linked Image]

N550 shot this from 1300 this afternoon. Don't know if I'll stick with it or not as I'm getting some 'blow-by' of the BR4 primers as I noticed a little 'soot' on the case-head. Might try an under-primer wad to see if I can stop the blow-by. Load is hot at 41 grs. so I may drop back a tat. No expansion of case-head however! Bolt lift required a little more force than my other loads though! Didn't load but 10 rounds of the N550 and 8 are in the plate. Used other two on a zero plate I have on the mound.

FDC called in the Fire Mission....fired the round and in the meantime....the 'backstrap' ran into the impact area!!


"It ain't the arrow! It's the Indian!"
#4411018 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: Sharpsman]  
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,210
EddyBo Offline
Campfire Guide
EddyBo  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,210
SW MS
How big is the white circle? I would probably back off that half a grain and give that another try.

#4411205 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: EddyBo]  
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Sharpsman Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Sharpsman  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,641
Northeast Louisiana
Originally Posted by EddyBo
How big is the white circle? I would probably back off that half a grain and give that another try.


EddyBo

White plate is 20"; black is 44". It's the same size target used in LR Creedmoor/Palma Shooting! Shot at 12 o/clock was my first shot! Came down 1/2 MOA and got centered.

Here's a closer look at the target and mainframe:

[Linked Image]

I painted the 10 ring plate white for this testing from 1300 yds. Normally keep it solid black as from 1000 yds. the impacts show up on the black like a diamond in a Billy Goats arse!! Little harder to pick up from 1300 on back with my Kowa!

Last edited by Sharpsman; 09/13/10. Reason: Additional info added!

"It ain't the arrow! It's the Indian!"
#4411286 - 09/13/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: rost495]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 844
264wm Offline
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264wm  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 844
Loomis, WA
Your right there practice is the key. When I was 10 in 1955 the high school had a 50' shooting range in the basement We joined the gun club and were allowed to use the range 3 or 4 times a week. I would shoot 1 or 2 hundred rounds of 22 long rifle each night with a target rifle with peep sights furnished by the military. I did this from then all the way through high school. I don't know why these type ranges died out but kids these days are sure missing out on some of the best times ever. There were just as many girls as guys in our gun club. I developed a ability for snap shots with a rifle as we would shoot crows and magpies for a bounty of 25 cents each to buy our 22 shells.

#4427484 - 09/19/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 264wm]  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,269
GSSP Offline
Campfire Guide
GSSP  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,269
Near Hobble Creek Canyon, Utah
Shot this with my 6.5x47 Lapua yesterday at 500 yds. I was checking my zero and drops out to 500 yds with my 257 Roberts and figured I throw a few down range with the 6.5x47.

I had to up my load from 40.25 gr to 40.8 gr as I ran out of one 8-lb jug of H4350 and had to open another. Velocity is now 2886 fps with an ES of "4" for 10 rounds with the 130 Berger Hunting VLD.

This is at 500 yds. If it weren't for my 257 Rob, I'd seriously consider taking this for my Utah spike elk hunt in 3 weeks. The squares are MOA (1.047").
[Linked Image]

Last edited by GSSP; 09/19/10.

[Linked Image]
#4427697 - 09/19/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: GSSP]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,998
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
65BR  Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,998
NICE Alan, what's twist and bbl length? Impressive speeds/130s.

#4428405 - 09/19/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
Joined: Sep 2005
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GSSP Offline
Campfire Guide
GSSP  Offline
Campfire Guide

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Posts: 3,269
Near Hobble Creek Canyon, Utah
8:5 twist in a 26".

Alan


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#4428507 - 09/19/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: GSSP]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,998
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
65BR  Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,998
I'd say you were smiling when you shot that group.

Congrats.

#4428536 - 09/19/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: 65BR]  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,269
GSSP Offline
Campfire Guide
GSSP  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,269
Near Hobble Creek Canyon, Utah
Oooh Yeah!!!!

And thanks


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#4511337 - 10/17/10 Re: Which 6.5mm cartridge and why? [Re: GSSP]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 96
azsixshooter Offline
Member
azsixshooter  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 96
I love the 6.5x55 Swedish. It's very well-balanced and easy to handload for. Just answering the OP. Good thread, lots of interesting 6.5mm stuff. I wish I could get out and shoot as often as some of you. I only have 30 yards in my backyard so I just shoot my bow a lot for now. I'm missing Arizona though. 1 hour drive to the Prescott Nat'l Forest and I was shooting as far as my Leica 1200 could range. Someday I'll be back out west, sooner the better.

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