Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles "most accurate out of the box rifle" and 3" accuracy standard

I personally wouldn't own a 700 as a boat anchor, but that is unusual for a 700 not to shoot better than that. The problem of course is the factory tolerance of 3". I remember that Browning BARs is 4! "! That's where the beauty of the Weatherbys come in, even on their 350dollar Vanguards. NOBODY can touch that and in the new catalog, the Vanguard "SUB MOA" GUARANTEES .99" accuracy for about the same price as a BDL. jorge

To me, the Wby accuracy guarantee has always been a bit of hype. MOST bolt action rifles will shoot handloads and the occasional factory load under an inch, that is, assuming three shot groups and keeping the barrel reasonably cool. Most won't hold that level of accuracy if you try to shoot them like a competition rifle ( IE, four or more consecutive groups), which I am often guilty of.

However, a 3" standard is crap. Since 1948, Remington bolt actions have set the standard for accuracy. They displaced all the Mausers and Model 70s from shooting competitions where a high level of accuracy was required--like benchrest. Now, those were not factory stock rifles, but rifles built on trued actions with custom barrels. The 700/40X dominated BR until the 80s, when full-up CNC machine custom actions started to take over. Still, you still see an occasional 700 in BR.

My point to all that is it is just not hard to get a 700 to shoot "hunting" type 3-shopt groups under an inch. (Assuming good bench technique.) If a factory 700 cannot do that with good handloads, a propper bedding job, and a 3 lb trigger; then the action needs trued or the barrel is bad or something else is wrong.

If you take the bedding job and handloading out of the equation, a 700 with a 3-4 lb trigger should still be able to shoot the factory ammo it likes into 1.5". If it doesn't, then Rem should warranty it. Crud, it is unusual for a 700 not to shoot that well.

However, perhaps for the mythical guy we all love to turn up our noses at, who shoots off a pile of sandbags with no rear rest and the cheapest factory ammo he can find, gets the barrel too hot to even touch, doesn't know how to properly clean a bore, ets; and add to that the typical 7lb trigger pull found on an out-of-the-box rifle, maybe 3" isn't so unreasonable.

And unfortunately for us, we rifle loonies are not the ones that buy most of the stuff............

I don't know if this was a Monday morning or Friday afternoon rifle. [bleep] happens--I understand and even have some level of patience for this principle. What I can not accept is the attitude from a company that advertises their product the way they do. I've had to send other rifles in warranty work, even one weatherby. Was I annoyed? Sure. Did the inconvience associated with trying to get a bad barrel to shoot well cost me $. You bet. The difference is the fundamental way the likes of Weatherby or Leupold attend to customer service. Can you imagine someone from Weatherby actually trying to tell a custormer that 3" accuracy was adequate or Leupold telling a customer that a shifiting point of impact was acceptable? After listening to Remingotn's crap and adding up what I've spent on factory ammo and loading components, it is difficult to think kindly about big green. With any luck, the action bedding and crowing that are in process will improve things. If it talkes a new barrel, I'll really be pissed at what my boys rifle cost! Is anyone from customer service listening?

AggieDog,

That is another good point about the M1500. It is proportioned nicely, from the .620" contour barrel to the one piece integral bolt and handle. It is a nice package. There are also very few actions that are solid forgings and on the market today. The Howa is one and the Zastava 98 Mauser is another. I think the huge, flat recoil lug is one of the key elements to accuracy on the Howa M1500.

In any event, I can't think of a better shooter and solid turn bolt for the money. Howa has been in the rodeo for a long time, just recently have consumers come to appreciate what they offer.

I have always liked the Howa as well, but don't forget they have a recall on certain rifles that could fire before the bolt was fully closed, which can cause serious injury to the shooter. I'm sure the newer Howas have fixed that, but if I got a hold of a used Howa, Wby Vanguard, or Mossberg; I would see if it was one of the affected serial numbers and make sure it has had the recall mode.

http://www.regcen.com/howa/

Our family has used Remington rifles for decades. We have around half a dozen of them, mostly their cheaper models like the ADL Synthetic, which we have in the form of a .300 Win and a .270 Win. My dad and his younger brother both use pre-82 ADLs with wood stocks in .30-06. I use a BDL in 7mm Rem Mag. Not a one of the rifles wouldn't shoot 1.5 inches out of the box--and mine had an attrocious lawyerized 8 pound trigger pull. With a trigger job and a little bit of handloading TLC every single rifle will shoot sub-MOA. I consider myself to be an average or even slightly below average rifleman, and definately not up to par with most of the riflemen on these boards, but even I managed to squeak out a 1/2 MOA group and several 3/4 MOA groups. Heck, my grandpa uses a Remington 7600 .30-06 that he has had for as long as I can remember and even it will do better than 2 MOA.

elkaddict , pull the action from the stock and look closely at the recoil lug. A friend had a model 7 that had accuracy issues and when he pulled the action the recoil lug was off center and when the action screws were tight the lug hit the bottom of the stock.

SAVAGE gets my vote! The ACCUTRIGGER is sweet!

Next time purchase all Remingtons (if there is a next time) from a gun shop that gets the rifle from Davidson's wholesalers. Davidsons will provide a warranty in addition to the remington (so called) customer service. I would think that Davidsons would send you a new one to replace it.

If your SUCKS really shoots that bad, I'd stongly suspect the crown. Either that or your mag box is installed improperly and putting the action in a bind. I've never seen a 7-08 of any flavor that wouldn't shoot well.

After you verify the mechanics, spend about $15 on a box of Match Kings. Load them over a nice charge of RL15 or H4350. If it still won't shoot reasonably well with that combo, then I'd suspect a barrel problem.

Of course I am also assuming that you've checked that your loads are good and straight.

As of right now, if it were my rifle, I'd be a LONG ways from condemning it.

I kind of understand where Remington is coming from. Even if they did have a 1" guarantee, how many people can actually shoot that well. I've bought plently of "inaccurate" Remingtons and "miraculously" got them to shoot with just a little bit of work.

I bought one of the Wal-mart clearance special 700adl's in .223 a few months ago. Figured for $300 I couldn't get hurt too bad. How it shot "out of the box" I have o idea. Before I had been home an hour with it, I had the dremel going and was in the process of glass bedding it. Had to wait on scope mounts to come in the mail, so I just got a head start on what I knew I would do eventually anyway. I definatly didn't get hurt. The gun shoots under 3/4" groups with several loads. Only problem I've had is the extractor is too tight. It was tearing case rims everytime I chambered a round, reload or factory. Took the exractor out, figuring something was under it , but that wasn't it. Guess the groove isn't cut deep enough. Stoned the extractor till it's usable, but expect to get it checked sometime.

My 1st centerfire rifle was a 700 BDL in 30-06 and it was the worst shooting rifle I've ever owned. I got rid of it but when the Classic series came out I decided I had to have one and picked up a 350 Rem Mag. I loved the way that gun fit but it wouldn't shoot worth a damn even after bedding the action, floating the barrel and shooting a half dozen different bullets/loads. I sold it and 2 days later a 35 Whelen showed up at the shop down the road so I grabbed it. The trigger in that gun was the worst of the 3 but it would shoot around MOA with the Rem factory ammo. I put a Timney trigger in it and now it shoots less tha MOA with Fed Premium ammo. So, it only took 3 700's for me to get a good one. I love that 35 Whelen Classic but I would never recommend a Remington 700 to anyone as an accurate out of the box rifle.

Out of the seven Remington bolt guns I have been personally acquainted with, none had any problems getting 1" groups with some type of factory ammo.

The first thing you need to do is check the crown--it may have gotten dinged, or maybe Remmy just didn't finish it well. Next is the bedding. It will rarely (if ever) be the barrel that needs swapping for "hunting" accuracy.

Thanks Blaine for posting the safety recall. I am working on a load for a friend's Mossberg that needs this recall done.
Thanks again, 757

Blaine: You are correct..sort of about the Weatherby guarantee being mostly hype in that just about any rifle out there will shoot sub MOA. The hype becomes reality with the subject post in question in that Remington won't fix it because the accuracy is within their 3" tolerances. Weatherby in turn will FIX IT and get it to shoot, usually sub MOA and that included the 350 dollar Vanguards.

Also, before 1964, Model 70s were the "match kings" and to this day, they remain as the most prolific winners of the Wimbledon Matches. We can't really argue "what might have been" but my take is that the armed forces would have never gone to the 700 had Remington's economies of scale not been able to underbid everybody else for the contract and Winchester's decision to discontinue the CRF rifles which coincided with the switch to 700s. Further, my good friend and business partner is a retired Marine LTCOL Scout-Sniper that trained under Carlos Hathcock. Virtually all the men that trained with both Weapons prefer the 70 over the 700. Easier trigger to work with easier to clean and disassemble, particularly under field conditions. Also, the armed forces switching to 700s is not a good analogy. Look at the M-9 (Beretta) contract. For starters, the M-9 can't hold a candle to the 1911 and the Sig clearly beat the Beretta in competition. The main reson we didn't build more 1911s was Colt's UNION DRIVEN exorbitant costs. It was only when Beretta wielded it's considerable economic prowess AND agreed to build a factory in Maryland that they won the contract. I can tell you that from a durability standpoint and combat effectiveness, they have been less than ideal. Sorry to digress but I for one don't buy into the urban myth about Remington's supposed accuracy superiority above all others. jorge

I'm sure it's just a bedding problem or the barrel/forearm are making contact someplace they shouldn't. Try freefloating the barrel first (easy to do yourself) or take it for bedding.

I sold my old 300 win and picked up one in the CDL. My old reliable load which shoots around an inch in 4 different 300 wins 180 NP, 76 grains of R22, F215, ww brass shot 2 1/2 inches in the CDL. I about crapped my pants, I had sold off a sweet shooter to get the CDL. I got R19 to shoot about 1 1/2 which relieved some of the stress and then got Mule Deer's 300 win load of 75 grains H4831 to shoot 3/4 with wmr and ww brass after reading his loads that work article. I still haven't free floated the barrel or bedded the action. I wanted to see what I could do with the out- of the box rifle, before I screwed it up worse.
My daughters youth adl in 243 shoots about a 1/2 inch with Sierra 60 grain hp's and H380. It'll do under an inch with 100 grain partitions and IMR 4831. Bone stock. I didn't even lighten the trigger. Thoughs where the first two powders I messed with. And found the loads within the first few groups shot. And the loads repeat their groups.
I've had the same experence as you with other rifle brands, but (knock on wood) have had excellent luck with every sucks I've owned.