Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats GreyBull Precision?

Trey,

Nice shooting and lope! I have not even read this thread, just clicked and saw your picture.

Cheers,

MtnHtr

Sure would be nice to hear what brand of barrel you're using John.But if it's anything like using a B&C stock on a $6k rifle I'd be hush hush also.

Similar thoughts here.

[quote=WGM]Take a Knee ... Are you freaking serious about (paraphrase) "anyone who knows what they are doing only uses a side focus scope"??? First off, "side focus" is just an engineering item ... the proper description would be a "scope with adjustable parallax" - whether side focus or an adjustable objective is used to accomplish that is another story.

Back to being able to shoot "long range" without an adjustable parallax scope ... it CAN be done, and is done all the time with relative ease for anyone who knows how to get a consistent cheek weld and place their eye in the center of the scope's view, thus eliminating parallax issues as it applies to shooting big game.

I learned all this in 1987 at Ft Bragg from Rick Boucher, I also learned I needed a side focus scope to hit consistently at 800. Adjusting parallax is part of the pre-shot prep dude. I understand what it is, and how best to eliminate it. I also understand parallax accumulates differently with different shooting positions. This means that parallax adjustment is ESSENTIAL on a sniper or hunting rifle, not on a 300yd benchrest rifle.

EXACTLY! If I included all of the indirect cost involved to get into my current long range rig, $6000 is cheap.

Well, I have to agree with JBurns here. In every instance I have found barrel break-in to be a necessary step in developing a new barrel. I am referring to barrels made by aftermarket companies such as Shilen, Hart, Pac-Nor, Schneider, Kreiger, Brux, and others. Of these I only use their premium grade "match select" barrels that have been lapped after reaming and then again after rifling.

The determining factor seems to be throat finish after chambering. While the rifling is finished axially to the bore, the throat is cut circumstantially with a reamer that leaves a more or less rough finish. That throat roughness is what needs to be polished out during break-in. Under high heat and pressure copper jacket material is stripped from the bullet in the throat and deposited in the barrel, especially in locations where the pressure has dropped to allow it to stick - usually near the muzzle in a process similar to plasma spray welding. Having a copper fouled barrel may point to a rough throat rather than a barrel.

During the break-in process I notice that at some point, usually within the first 50 rounds, groups will shrink, and copper fouling greatly reduce. That barrel is now considered broken-in.

In those cases where I have cut an existing throat deeper to accommodate a longer bullet, or improve seating depth, the process must be repeated to smooth the throat. The process can be accelerated by using Tubb's Throat Maintenance Kit, but generally a simple repeat of the break-in process works.

Throat erosion is reduced by Moly coating, however the new fad is Boron Nitride coating. I also never shoot a dry barrel, but use a bore lube such as colodial graphite, moly paste, etc. Being a varmint hunter, each of my barrels is subject to hundreds of shots during an outing, far more than any big game hunter will take, so fouling can be a problem. Use of polygonal rifling contours also reduce the fouling problem.

Sad to say, the only dead elk I have come across had an encounter with a Union Pacific locomotive. So I can't address the lethality question of long range hunting.

Wasn't the army still using a fixed 10x on their sniper rifles back in '87? I pretty sure Marine Snipers were using a fixed 10x Unertl from the 80's until 2005? Don't recall them needing side focus or adjustable parallax.

I have a little different take on that but a big plus +1.
I save the Jewells for my BR guns and I ended up with the 300 WM.
I personally wouldnt pee on loopie if they were on fire.
Other than that 30 years ago I could have save a pile if Mr.Burns was around.



Barrel bareak in.....
Break in and Cleaning

The age old question, "Breaking in the New Barrel". Opinions very a lot here, and this is a very subjective topic. For the most part, the only thing you are breaking in, is the throat area of the barrel. The nicer the finish that the Finish Reamer or Throating Reamer leaves, the faster the throat will break in.

Shoot one round and clean for the first two rounds individually. Look to see what the barrel is telling you. If I'm getting little to no copper out of it, I sit down and shoot the gun. Say 4 - 5 round groups and then clean. If the barrel cleans easily and shoots well, we consider it done.

If the barrel shows some copper or is taking a little longer to clean after the first two, shoot a group of 3 rounds and clean. Then a group of 5 and clean.

After you shoot the 3rd group and 5th group, watch how long it takes to clean. Also notice your group sizes. If the group sizes are good and the cleaning is getting easier or is staying the same, then shoot 4 - 5 round groups.

If fouling appears to be heavy and taking a while to clean, notice your group sizes. If group sizes are good and not going sour, you don't have a fouling problem. Some barrels will clean easier than others. Some barrels may take a little longer to break in. Remember the throat. Fouling can start all the way from here. We have noticed sometimes that even up to approximately 100 rounds, a barrel can show signs of a lot of copper, but it still shoots really well and then for no apparent reason, you will notice little to no copper and it will clean really easy.

This is meant as guide lines only. There is no hard and fast rule for breaking in a barrel.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cleaning

Always use a good quality, 1 piece cleaning rod (such as Dewey, Boretech, etc...). Always use a bore guide. Whether cleaning a bolt action rifle or a semi-auto, good bore guides cleaning rods are available from a number of sources (such as Sinclair International, Champions Choice, Brownell's, etc...).

We prefer to use the Parker-Hale type cleaning Jags. Cut your patches to the proper size. If the patch squeaks going down the barrel, it is to tight. Roll your patches around the jag tip like a cigarette. This gives an even patch versus poking the patch in the center. When you use the latter method the patch doesn't fold evenly. Using the first method of rolling the patch, gives you more surface area and keeps the tip of the cleaning rod centered going down the barrel.

If you use a brush, we recommend one caliber smaller or an old worn out one. Roll a patch around the brush. Always push the brush, Breech to Muzzle. Remove the brush before pulling your rod back through! NEVER pull the brush back over the crown. More damage to a good barrel is done from cleaning than actual shooting. The first to suffer is the crown. The crown is the last thing the bullet touches when it leaves the gun. Any damage here affects accuracy no matter what.

Cleaning Basics:

Good 1 piece quality cleaning rod.

Bore guide

Nice cotton patches

Don't drag the brush back over the crown!

Never mix your solvents! Either in a jar or in the barrel, unless you are a chemist and know how they are going to react with one another and with the steel. Play it Safe.

Good Luck and Good Shooting!
Bartlein Barrels, Inc.




dave

I first heard of you because of your association with Best of the West, which is why I know you used, or at least your company used our guards and a lot of them, all in stainless.

Really, it's neither here nor there and the only reason I commented on this thread was because of the break-in comments that were made towards WGM.

This is the last of my participation on this thread, but I'll leave you with a man's opinion I respected and many among the shooting fraternity do as well.

Gale McMillan on Barrel Break-In

Anyone got any idea of the full details on this shotgun? (good luck seeing the gun but hey, we needed some comic relief on this thread)...

Triggerguard1,

What part of I have never ever ever ever used even one of your trigger guards is confusing.

As for it being neither here nor there I think it now has actually become relatively important.

You seem totally unconcerned that your statement is factually and completely wrong.

Are you lying or just don�t have a clue who are your customers??

For you guys who wonder why I don�t list all of our components maybe this is the perfect example.

A lot of parts manufactures would love to be able to use our name in their advertising and claim we use their components in our systems. This can lead to problems later if through testing we discover something that works better.

What really chaps my butt is guys who start this crap that have never even been considered.

I give up, even hot TA TA's won't cool this thread down...

Believe me, I wasn't try to jump on some kind of association bandwagon, but if you're saying that I've never sold my trigger guards to Best of The West, you are the liar, or are simply misinformed.

To be clear, it was my former company of Williams Firearms Company...........Better now?

Aaron Davidson was our contact that we worked directly with.

Did he rub your butt after the deal? Cause everytime he kills something there is some butt rubbing going on......

No it is not better now.

Davidson is a direct competitor of mine. Most guys in the industry know he simply copied what I was doing and when I left The Best of the West he jumped right in.

It is one thing to offer an uninformed opinion about the merits of barrel break in but to run around claiming me as a customer just won�t cut it.

Please admit I have never bought any trigger guards from you. I don�t care who else has, that is not the point.

Dink,

I am going to need a butt rub, my ass is really getting chapped

I'll admit that I sold Best of The West trigger guards about 3-4 years ago and continued to do so, until about a year and a half ago, at which time I ran out of my supply of stainless.
You weren't working with that company in that time frame?

Damn...............

You will need to talk with your competitor about that. He is the pro.....laffin. These guys don't hold a light to someone of the chit I seen you deal with on another forum. If I have to start watching video in slow motion again.......[bleep].

I do have a serious question though. Any chance you doing reticles or turrets for existing Leupolds?

Dink

WGM, nice shooting sir, and post.

Dave7mm, nice info on barrels, about to break in my 2nd Bartlein

Now speaking of optics Dave, I'd appreciate your 'Cliff notes' if you will on scope preferences in your experience, just a few lines if you don't mind, for my knowledge and if you feel better to PM, that's fine. If you want, thanks again for the post.

Learning more each day, great stuff, loads of experience.