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65BR, You made the correct decision for you, in your situation.

GB1

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Dedicated scopes are not practical, but time will come when wholly computerized electronic scopes will be. These may include a laser rangefinder as some do today, but with a dual aperture, that can measure bullet velocity, and compute drop and drift. They will also measure wind direction and speed from dust particle movement, in real time, over the entire range to target, making adjustments accordingly.

Ammo manufacturers would print a bar-code on each box of specialty ammunition that would be scanned past the scope, thus setting the computer's parameters. Handloads would use the internal chronograph data to set ranging parameters. Factory or handloads, fire a couple of shots at the range to verify and you're good to go.

There will be no turrets to adjust. A separate laser bore slighter will be placed in the barrel and the rifle mounted on a bench with the laser illuminating the target, the scope will automatically read the position of the laser dot and adjust the reticle for that base range. From there on it's all automatic. The scope will also record a video record of each shot.

Why I bet they could include a GPS display so you know where you are, to boot. Then, how about a scope with a LCD or plasma display, no eye box at all. Just think, non critical eye or cheek placement, automatic or manual contrast adjustment, night vision capabilities, illuminated reticle, and satellite TV! The entire thing with batteries charged by photocells built into the stock. Cool.

After all, it all about gadgets isn't it?

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Any of you guys have pictures of your 600 yard groups? Or really any groups shot farther than 600 yards?

Dink

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Originally Posted by VAnimrod
JBurns;

I'm confused (given this thread, I don't think that's a surprise).

From what I can gather, the rifles that you're putting out are assembled by hand, correct? They use a standard Rem.700 action (no other options?), that's blue-printed, squared, and trued, corrct? No other work done to them?

Those actions are then fitted with a Jewel trigger that's properly set, correct?

A barrel of only one maker and profile, and length, is then mated to the receiver, correct?

The then-set barreled action is then hand-bedded and mated to a single stock option/design produced by only a single maker, and that maker is one of the majors, correct?

One scope option, with a set of custom BDC dials by Leupold, and a custom reticle (SFP?), correct?

And, rings/bases of one maker (y'all?), correct?

A custom reamer is used for the chamber, to give precise dimensions and thoating for the VLD load, correct?

Your load development uses one powder, one bullet, and one type of brass, and you verfiy it at 1" or less capability at 100 yards, correct?

I think that's the basics of your system, as I understand it.

Am I right, or if I'm wrong, where so?

Thanks,


Anyone?

Bueller?

Bueller?




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VA,

Study this page on Greybull's website....

http://greybullprecision.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=4

It will answer a few of those questions.


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I saw that. I'd simply like JBurns to confirm that, or correct me if I'm reading that wrong.

If that's the case, then, frankly, it's not a custom rifle. It's a low-production-volume PRODUCTION rifle. It is a rifle produced to the manufacturer's specs, not the clients.




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VAnimrod,

Sorry I missed it before. I think I have answered all of your questions in previous posts and a lot of info is on our website and jim62 gave you a link.

We don�t offer nearly as many options as do most other custom gun builders. We instead offer a much higher level of performance. The level of performance is demonstrated in our videos and we have been doing this longer than anyone else.

Most reputable custom gun makers would not allow a customer to pick a component if the maker new such a selection would end up in an unsatisfactory finish product.

We follow the same principle and at our level of performance component selection is limited. We continually test new components and if we find a component that will enhance the overall performance of the complete system we will then switch.

What we don�t do is try and ride on the reputation of any particular component manufacturer. We live or die by our proven field performance.

We do offer the McMillan G30 action for those that prefer an upgrade from the Rem 700.

I would disagree about whose specs we use. Our clients specify a level of performance not a bill of materials.

If your biggest gripe is what we do does not fit your idea of what a custom rifle is I guess we agree on a lot more than we disagree.


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I'm simply stating that you don't offer a custom rifle; you offer a production rifle that the client either accepts your specs, or they get someone else's rifle. That's it.

You don't market it as a custom rifle; you market it as a "long-range system".

Frankly, and to the point, it's my opinion that you're sponsoring the wrong forum.

As to your performance, that's a debate on merits and on standards, and thus far, I've not seen what level of performance, stnadards, or measures you use to establish your "higher level of performance". Higher than what? What is the measurable criteria against which you benchmark your products performance?

For the record, I have NO qualms about you marketing whatever you make as you see fit, nor your prices. If a client buys something, and is happy with it, then it was worth it to them.

I'd simply like to know what guarantees and/or measurable standards you are producing with that product and for that price.




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I'm still not seeing the factual difference between GreyBull and any other custom shop with limited options.

I mean, GAP offers some rifles in a limited number of chamberings with a limited number of options and you're not busting their chops.


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GAP, ain't posting as a custom riflesmith here. And, GAP offers options within their builds that you can customize off of their base to YOUR specs, at YOUR request.




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Re: Long Range shooting, read a post on another sight of interest in light of the discussions here.

"We used 7MM/08 rifles for metallic silhouettes out to 500 meters. You can actually watch the bullet in flight if the light is right with a good spotting scope. They are really dropping and it would be very easy to shoot under if you were 25 yards off. That distance requires very precise equipment in my opinion. I never see it mentioned by "long range shooters" but when silhouette shooting we had to tweak our scope settings daily. Your settings could change several inches day to day."

Granted there are flatter rounds, but they ALL drop measurably, and the last statement..well....this is shooting at 547 yds.

Draw your own conclusions.

I like target shooting, have, do, and will SHOOT long distance, and love to hunt. That said, I have fun with true custom guns, on the range, and using them in the field, yet I don't snipe at game, but have at other inanimate targets.

True story: There is a local guy who builds custom guns, before that he was fascinated with killing deer really far. One day he drove out past my stand, after talking to me on my stand, then proceeded to drive off about 400-550 yds past me and turned his truck around.

Through my bino's I could see him get out of his truck, throw a sand bag down on his cab, sit in a chair with his rifle propped facing DIRECTLY towards me, just perhaps 15-20 feet off to the center of that shooting lane/pipe line. My first thought was, you have GOT to be F'ng Kidding Me?

What nerve, but more importantly where was his professional courtesy, let alone ANY regard to hunting safety?

That as some here use the term, was and IS a Jackass. More importantly, he desired SO bad to shoot something and at long range, he was willing to put MY life in danger. I take STRONG ISSUE with him and his actions.

He deserved an azz whooping. I will NEVER have ANY respect for that guy. That was one of but several things this person later has been known to do, showing a complete lack of character IMHO. He also will NEVER be allowed to build a custom rifle for me, even if offered for free. That's just how I roll.

I hope all of you do what you do safely and not endanger others, or become a statistic like I might have that day at the hands of a 'LR Game Sniper.'


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VAnimrod,

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

If you are actually concerned about this as opposed to being bored and trying to stir up a bunch of crap I do have a suggestion for you.

PM Rick Bin and let him know your reasoning and feelings and ask him to move me to another forum. After all it is his website and I am sure he would want to allow a non custom /production rifle maker to be sponsoring in the wrong place.

You might even tell him you will quit posting here if this travesty is allowed to continue.

Let me know how that works out for ya.





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I just took you up on part of that. I respect Rick greatly, as a person and as a businessman, and his decisions (even if I disagree with him... rarely...), and he knows this. I'd expect whatever the response is, to be in line with that, as was my PM. No harm/foul, either way.

FWIW, considering what you specialize in and what your rifles are designed for, I'd rather see you sponsor the long-range hunting forum. It's certainly your forte', what you build for, and where your strength lies.


Last edited by VAnimrod; 09/16/10.



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Originally Posted by DINK
Any of you guys have pictures of your 600 yard groups? Or really any groups shot farther than 600 yards?

Dink



6 shots @ 1000 yds, dropped the 4th shot, dunno why? Was running a boat anchor .308

[Linked Image]

Same, but 5 shots. 1000yds.
[Linked Image]

More 1000yds shots, Brad Arnett on the left, myself on the right.
[Linked Image]

700yds, 5 shots, 65-284
[Linked Image]

5 shots @ 500yds.
[Linked Image]

15-20rds @ 700yds with a boat anchor .308
[Linked Image]

800yds, not sure why I'm showing 7 with my fingers...
[img]http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m39/SuperSeal110/Youngs%201k%20range/100_2872.jpg[/img]

700yds. Mine and Brad's dope was the same.
[img]http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m39/SuperSeal110/Youngs%201k%20range/DSCI0024.jpg[/img]

1000yds, 5 shots, 75gr Amax don't take off much paint in the winter...
[img]http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m39/SuperSeal110/Youngs%201k%20range/DSCI0012-1.jpg[/img]

For [bleep] & giggles, pencil thin @ 1000yds.
[img]http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m39/SuperSeal110/51a4101d.jpg[/img]

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VAnimrod,

We really don�t specialize in long range rifles. We build hunting rifles, I say custom hunting rifles, that have very good long range performance but give nothing up on the more moderate ranges where most game is actually shot.

I personally would not seriously hunt with a purpose built �long range rifle� because it compromises so much at normal range.



John Burns

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They can't stop the signal.

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This thread is quite comical. The campfire is nothing more than a bunch of whining bitches these days.....

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Amen.

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Superseal thanks for the pics. Damn I have alot more work to do.

John quit fighting on the internet and fill my order.....that would be one of the dvds....... grin

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Could you tell me a little more about the rifle in the first photo showing the 1000 yard shot? Caliber specs etc

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Originally Posted by 65BR
Re: Long Range shooting, read a post on another sight of interest in light of the discussions here.

"We used 7MM/08 rifles for metallic silhouettes out to 500 meters. You can actually watch the bullet in flight if the light is right with a good spotting scope. They are really dropping and it would be very easy to shoot under if you were 25 yards off. That distance requires very precise equipment in my opinion. I never see it mentioned by "long range shooters" but when silhouette shooting we had to tweak our scope settings daily. Your settings could change several inches day to day."

Granted there are flatter rounds, but they ALL drop measurably, and the last statement..well....this is shooting at 547 yds.

Draw your own conclusions.

I like target shooting, have, do, and will SHOOT long distance, and love to hunt. That said, I have fun with true custom guns, on the range, and using them in the field, yet I don't snipe at game, but have at other inanimate targets.

True story: There is a local guy who builds custom guns, before that he was fascinated with killing deer really far. One day he drove out past my stand, after talking to me on my stand, then proceeded to drive off about 400-550 yds past me and turned his truck around.

Through my bino's I could see him get out of his truck, throw a sand bag down on his cab, sit in a chair with his rifle propped facing DIRECTLY towards me, just perhaps 15-20 feet off to the center of that shooting lane/pipe line. My first thought was, you have GOT to be F'ng Kidding Me?

What nerve, but more importantly where was his professional courtesy, let alone ANY regard to hunting safety?

That as some here use the term, was and IS a Jackass. More importantly, he desired SO bad to shoot something and at long range, he was willing to put MY life in danger. I take STRONG ISSUE with him and his actions.

He deserved an azz whooping. I will NEVER have ANY respect for that guy. That was one of but several things this person later has been known to do, showing a complete lack of character IMHO. He also will NEVER be allowed to build a custom rifle for me, even if offered for free. That's just how I roll.

I hope all of you do what you do safely and not endanger others, or become a statistic like I might have that day at the hands of a 'LR Game Sniper.'



Are you [bleep]' kidding me? WTFH does your story have to do with John Burns and his company. Give it a [bleep]' rest for god's sake. You have made your point that you are a hater of the highest level. Move on. Please. We are clear on how you feel. Really.

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