Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Not impressed with the new Model 70's

From your list I could live with a Howa or Ruger 77 and not feel any strain. Just wouldn't be as comfortable as I do with a Mod. 70 of about any generation.

Currently using a Nula. Great little rifle that is certainly different than a Mod. 70. Shoots excellent, and a joy to carry, but I could nit pick and feel correct in doing so. That little extractor has already had brass get under it and cause a failure to extract. Have a M700 that has done the same. The bolt handle is to small and close to the stock for my big thick fingers. On a cold day it could be a problem. Do I bash it because of this. Certainly not. Could it be better in my opinion? Yes. Do I like the rifle? Immensely.

They all have their +/- and we all have our favorites.

A Kimber is so close to being perfect, but I have my doubts they will ever get there.

Actually, if you buy a gun right, you can make money on any of them.

Cabala's gun room does it every day.

Conversely, if you get into any gun upside down and pay too much, you may not find someone to pay more than you did.

Given the amount of fakes and tinkering done to many pre 64 Winchesters, it is probably easier to get screwed buying one of them as any other used hunting rifle.

Bravo TexasRick.

I wouldn't tinker with a pre-64 Dood. I put scopes on them, shoot them, and clean them. People like me pay money for guns like these. I can't compete with Cabelas either, obviously. I am not an FFL dealer, I don't have a gun shop, selling guns isn't my profession. The simple fact is, that older, more collectible rifles, such as a pre-64 Model 70 is very likely to increase in value over time, rather than fall, like an FN.

If you deny there are not a lot of refinished / unorigional condition pre 64 M 70 rifles out there(which increase the odds of getting screwed buying one) than you sure are not looking at them very critically...

BobinNH,
Comparing Raquel to Hillary is not the same as comparing a pre-64 to a post-64, it is like comparing a pre-64 to a Rossi single shot (and insulting the Rossi).

By the way, was it the white bowling ball finish?

Who IS this shooterdood anyway?????.......and how many accounts does Lee24 have???

You look at them critically when you buy them. It is a pretty simple task when you know what you're looking at.

The "Cult" of the pre-64's,use them,buy,sell and invest in a piece of Americana....Is that really going to be done with the current tribe of rifles??..I doubt it.
These guns are what they are and what they have always been.I also feel the same about my collection of Mannlichers,Brno's and Mauser 98's.I prefer rifles that are blue and wood and craftsmanship that make them work and do not share the same materials as a "Bic" lighter.I like the character that these rifles exemplify.

1936-or even 1950-was a long time ago. Pristine examples are getting harder to find. Like old vettes-think restored 63-67 going for $100,000 plus with $50,000 being common-restoration will eventually become more commonplace. When done correctly it will have little negative impact on price as long as the gun meets original standards for parts, accuracy and function.

Addition: Check the price for a Model 21 made by CSM, which is essentially a reproduction or the current price of the Parker Reproduction shotgun if you perhaps think I out in left field.

True to my word I had a pre-64 M70 given to me. I sold it as soon as I could. Didn't want no 30-06 taking up space in my house.

Losing a debate? Wasn't aware we were having one....what do you shoot?

BTW there are no "debates' on here...there are "free-for-alls"....where anybody gets to make bald-faced assertions they expect will be taken as fact,whether true or not.Also known as "opinions',which are not fact...unless of course you qualify as an expert,which you don't....at least not so far.

Debates have rules,objective third parties to judge who "won"....just because you come on, assert a position,you believe you have "won" what your own delusion construes to be a "debate"? You lost with the first post!

Funny stuff.....

I guess some guys just have a need to walk into a room of strangers and make an impression...not caring whether it's a good one or a bad one.

And to add to Bob's point although I don't speak for Bob, for those who can articulate a point, english does matter.

Amen. Frankly, the difference between our conversations here and a true moderated debate competition is the difference between night and day.

Thank you, my brothers... Sometimes a misspelled word will happen,some grammar will slip,but to continually do it while trying to make a point loses steam with me.
Looking at his 3 hour burst of posting('dood) has slipped back below the waves and disappeared....
I found this to be an an interesting thread.....rifle

The biggest squawk every one seems to have against the pre 64 M70 is the escaping gas issue,and this is certainly well founded,but I have been spared the experience through some several tens of thousands of rounds spanning over 30 years....I suppose this is because I watch what I am doing with this and any other action.So my experience with these issues is purely anectodotal.

That said I do recall O'Connor writing that the only time he got a face full of escaping gas and particles it was from an old batch of 7x57 Mauser ammo in a 98 Mauser, which is supposedly heralded for handling escaping gas......and the photo's i have seen of wrecked Reminton 700'sand Classic M70's don't leave one with a particular feeling of comfort either....bottom line being that escaping gas can be a bad thing in any action.

Excluding guys like JB and other experts who work with much stuff,and are in a position to "kmow" what theyartalking about as a result of their profession,many on here who profess they would use a half dozen other actions before reaching for a pre 64 are certainly entitled to their opinion, but it does not seem to be based on very much experience at all.....missing from the posts is a background of any experience with the pre 64's or Model 70's of any type....so the remarks can be largely ignored FWIW.

That said the "perfect" bolt action has yet to be developed and for every argument I see condemning a pre 64 I suspect one could come up with arguments for,and against, anything else which purports to be superior.

I have a friend back here, a National match shooter who has competed here and in canada, including Wimbledon and Quantico,and Canada.He is in his 70's,is an accomplished engineer by profession,knows firearms of all types as he frequently gives expert testimony in Court cases( Unlike on here,in a courtroom, you have to be "qualified" as an expert before being allowed to testify under oath.This little detail escapes many on here).In a courtroom, you REALLY have to know what you are talking about....

Two of his match rifles are built on pre 64 M70's.He has fired well in excess of 100,000 rounds through the two rifles and has other pre 64's as well that he uses.He replaced an extractor after 40,000 rounds in one, and got annoyed.I suspect the guy shoots more rounds in a year many who profess to know WTF they are talking about on here.

Given his background, the nature of his profession, his knowledge of firearms, etc, I'm certain he would laugh his azz off at some of the drivel that passes for knowledge on here about pre 64 M70's, or anything else involving rifle actions.Given a choice between his view and some of the half-baked,ignorant, and "fly by the seat of the pance" stuff I read on here, I know who I will listen to.JMHO and YMMV

Well said, Bob..
My take has been that YES,there are some flaws on P64's ,as I find can with every firearm I pick up. The only time I ever got "gassed" was from a split case in one of my Mannlichers.It was very old ammo and should have not been fired,my bad,lesson learned,but the rifle handled it well.
In 40 so years of buying and selling and learning,I have yet to lose any money on a P64,I can not say that for others,no matter how long I had it.
Someone brought up a 1962 Remington 700,which would still not be a comparison to a 1962 M70,someone would be buying that for a "doner"... cheap.
I also would not expect any of the firearms industry people to endorse a P64,it's out of production! There is no money in it,new is new and new must be sold.The NFL or MLB no longer endorse Spading or Wilson to the degree it was done in the 50's,60's and 70's,now you have the "check-mark" or whatever that is. The Sherman tank had flaws,but you tell a WWII vet that,when he may have had his azz saved by one.Tell an old time match shooter as Bob described and see what you will learn.
Y'all have a good day....rifle

i don't have "extensive experience" with the p64 because it diddn't take that long for me to realize that all it offers are "intangibles". like the Colt SAA. kinda cool to have and to handle, but i'd druther run a Ruger Blachawk when it really matters.

nothing is perfect, so in the end, we all have to just pick a rifle, exploit its strong suits and work with it's weaknesses

Bob, I always look forward to reading your commentary on rifles, but we are going down different trails when comes to the pre-64 Model 70s. I purchased new serial # 500020 Winchester Model 70 in a .300 H&H and a lot my buddies also ran pre-64s at the time. I also was running a 58 Chevy with a 283 vette engine dropped in it at the same time in my life. I got to tell you, I am delighted that someone else owns #500020 and the Chevy, and today I am running ss Model 70 Classics and a 4x4 Dodge one ton with a Cummings.

Yesterday I was at the gun show in Whitehall, and in part because this thread, I looked closely at several pre-64s. If I did not know better, I would tell you that the swing shift millwright at the mill put these rifles up. No thank you-there are better choices today. CP.