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You can bullchit the fans and when it comes to safariclowns you can also bullchit the players.
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Greenhorn, like your buddy, you might be a really good guy. We'd never know from your vitriolic posts.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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you sure make it look as if it is your life's ambition to screw with Atkinson. You and Greenhorn expend an extraordinary amount of energy on it. Laughter doesn't take an extraordinary amount of energy. The truth hurts, but it's sometimes pretty funny too. elephant poaching.. anyone? anyone?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Looks like the concept of "tongue in cheek" is lost on some. This is one sad thread and if one were to take the time and read the link posted by maddog it puts a different perspective on things. In my opinion anyway. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Hatari,
None of these guys have ever hunted with me, none of them even know me, its and internet vendetta, like the folks in Washington, they are like coyotes, what they don't eat they [bleep] on. They are licking wounds that are 5 or 10 years old, and its eating them up. How dumb is that?
I will be the one who determines if this hunt is legitamate or not, not these flunkys that have never been to Africa, don't know the politics or geographical boundries, and don't understand that Gokwe is a National Park run by the Government, and Gokwe has a number of concession and Dudley Rogers does not own them all...
If the Govnor is right and he is sending me a letter of permission to hunt as he is the instigator of the hunt with the OK from Magabe and he commissioned Peter Uys and Robbie Kruger to do it, then this hunt is legal..It is not a cull, it is a meat hunt, and that is a technicality in the business of African hunting I guess.
So before some dumb ass jumps up and sez. "oh your doing business with Magabe" I will clarify that everyone in the hunting business in Zimbabwe is doing business wiht Magabee otherwise they would not be there. He is the president like it or not, just like Obama, like it or not. The safari companies that opposed him are gone., the ones that made the best out of a bad situation are still there.
Saeed realized that Drummond is just an internet flamer who obviously hates me, and told him to take his vendetta elewhere, as he was tired of listening to it. Drummond has a couple of hired guns that back up all his posts, sometimes they even use different names..As far as flaming me, it has no effect other than I get tired and bored reading it. I have been in business about as long as anyone and I wouldn't have survived all these years if 1/10th of what they say was true..I intend to wind down and retire after I have completed all my 2011 hunts that are now booked. I will always book for my old cleintele on request as they have been loyal friends for years, but I am looking forward to that retirement and persueing my team roping habit.
I am off to shoot my Antelope tomorrow and then look forward to roping in Arizona during the months of Feb. and maybe into March.
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Hatari,
None of these guys have ever hunted with me, none of them even know me, its and internet vendetta, like the folks in Washington, they are like coyotes, what they don't eat they [bleep] on. They are licking wounds that are 5 or 10 years old, and its eating them up. How dumb is that?
I will be the one who determines if this hunt is legitamate or not, not these flunkys that have never been to Africa, don't know the politics or geographical boundries, and don't understand that Gokwe is a National Park run by the Government, and Gokwe has a number of concession and Dudley Rogers does not own them all...
If the Govnor is right and he is sending me a letter of permission to hunt as he is the instigator of the hunt with the OK from Magabe and he commissioned Peter Uys and Robbie Kruger to do it, then this hunt is legal..It is not a cull, it is a meat hunt, and that is a technicality in the business of African hunting I guess.
So before some dumb ass jumps up and sez. "oh your doing business with Magabe" I will clarify that everyone in the hunting business in Zimbabwe is doing business wiht Magabee otherwise they would not be there. He is the president like it or not, just like Obama, like it or not. The safari companies that opposed him are gone., the ones that made the best out of a bad situation are still there.
Saeed realized that Drummond is just an internet flamer who obviously hates me, and told him to take his vendetta elewhere, as he was tired of listening to it. Drummond has a couple of hired guns that back up all his posts, sometimes they even use different names..As far as flaming me, it has no effect other than I get tired and bored reading it. I have been in business about as long as anyone and I wouldn't have survived all these years if 1/10th of what they say was true..I intend to wind down and retire after I have completed all my 2011 hunts that are now booked. I will always book for my old cleintele on request as they have been loyal friends for years, but I am looking forward to that retirement and persueing my team roping habit.
I am off to shoot my Antelope tomorrow and then look forward to roping in Arizona during the months of Feb. and maybe into March.
Interesting
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Ray, I can only shake my head at your last post. There is so much that is wrong with it I am having trouble believing that you even posted it
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HS, kinda like what Saeed said on AR, why don't you take it somewhere else.......  Greenhorn, why do you have to be such a d**k about everything..... maddog
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You can bullchit the fans and when it comes to safariclowns you can also bullchit the players. I have to tell you, azzhole, I'm tired of anyone who hunts Africa being your "safariclown". You know schidt about Africa. If you were some kind of authority and had years of experience there, you might make some sense. You are just an ignorant puke who can't think beyond N America. The only right way seems to be your way. Have you ever had personal dealings with Ray? No... Did he ever send you on a bogus hunt? No... Have you ever had to deal with African politics? No... I'm not passing judgement regarding this hunt offering, but I do know how Africa works, and it isn't dealing with your local Dudley Doright fish and game department. Man...you are an obsessive-compulsive regarding your dislike for anything African and anyone who loves that continent. ...you're back on ignore... for a great many here, by the way.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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You put me on ignore? That's flattering and it rocks! You seem to know what I like - not what I dislike.
And for the love of God, please stop sending me personal messages that say you want to kill me, then you love me, then you want to kill me.. Your schizobipolarism is off the charts.
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HS, kinda like what Saeed said on AR, why don't you take it somewhere else....... Because if I did somebody might actually book this hunt and end up in a world of hurt. Ray says
I will be the one who determines if this hunt is legitamate or not, not these flunkys that have never been to Africa, don't know the politics or geographical boundries, and don't understand that Gokwe is a National Park run by the Government, and Gokwe has a number of concession and Dudley Rogers does not own them all...
If the Govnor is right and he is sending me a letter of permission to hunt as he is the instigator of the hunt with the OK from Magabe and he commissioned Peter Uys and Robbie Kruger to do it, then this hunt is legal..It is not a cull, it is a meat hunt, and that is a technicality in the business of African hunting I guess.
So before some dumb ass jumps up and sez. "oh your doing business with Magabe" I will clarify that everyone in the hunting business in Zimbabwe is doing business wiht Magabee otherwise they would not be there. He is the president like it or not, just like Obama, like it or not. The safari companies that opposed him are gone., the ones that made the best out of a bad situation are still there.
There is so much here so I'll just deal with the obvious. Aside from the fact that this is an illegal hunt offering there are sanctions against Mugabe in Zimbabwe and per section 1 of Executive Order 13288 it states that you cannot do business in Zimbabwe with the persons listed in the Annex to this order; and any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State, to be owned or controlled by, or acting or purporting to act directly or indirectly for or on behalf of, any of the persons listed in the Annex to this orderhttp://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/legal/eo/13288.pdfAnd this idiot(Ray) not only openly admits that he isnt afraid of doing business with Mugabe but is willing to send anybody thats not educated enough on the matter across the drink to hunt with them. Ray claims that "I'm a flunky that doesnt know the politics of Africa" yet he doesnt even understand the laws of his own country. Its mind boggling to me to see people defend the guy and ask me to take this type of information elsewhere. Since Ray obviously doesnt know about the sanctions I'm sure he is unaware of the penalties for doing business with Mugabe or an associate of Mugabe. Hows a $250,000 fine per person and up to 10 years in a federal penetentiary sound to you? Ray cannot just admit this this is a hunt offering that he needs to pull from the message boards, his mental condition simply will not allow him to do this. There is ZERO shame in coming on, stating that he isnt willing to risk it and pull it, instead he fights tooth and nail and even admits that he is more than willing to break federal laws to do it. Its astonishing! IMO Ray needs to retire yesterday, today would not be soon enough. Within the industry he is looked upon as a joke. The problem is that on the internet you can be whoever you want to be and some of you take it, hook, line and sinker. Rays fantasy persona that he has created is interesting and should be looked upon like a Louis L'Amour novel, some of the places are real but the characters and stories are not. Drummond
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Drummond,
Who is it exactly, that you guide for?
Shut up and hunt!
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Here's a cut and paste, from a PM sent to me that was forwarded to somebody else from somebody else. Funny stuff..
I had no idea Ray was as experienced as he is. I believe I owe Ray an apology. I had no idea he had so much experience. I did a search of his old posts and came up with a world of info on him.
He really should write a book and serve as a consultant for those less experienced (like Craig Boddington, who is the only person I know of that approaches Ray's experience.)
After all Ray has faced Buffalo charges! (he can't remember how many, so cut him some slack. In some cases he even get's confused as to whose Buffalo it really is!)
Ray on Buffalo Charges:
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I killed a clients buffalo and the momentum of his charge was such that his chin was on top of my foot for all practical purposes and my foot was burried in dirt....I have had 3 for sure and a 4th that was iffy, but none of them were up real close and personal but the one mentioned as most were shot and killed as the charge was, shall we say stopped early, in its development stage..
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I have stood the Buffalo charge more than several times, I know what he looks like and it ain't pretty, and I never have been satisfied with the caliber I had on hand at the time and they were 404s, 416s, and 505s..Thats my opinnion.
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I have a 38" bull on my wall ... I mounted him because he died at my feet and covered my shoes with mud when he went down..He is MY trophy....
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Other things people do not realize when criticizing Ray is that he has pretty much been there and done that (on a border patrol agent's salary)
Just look, all you nay sayers, what Ray has done in his life (on a border patrol agent's salary). You will be sorry you ever said anything negative about him. This guy has hunted everywhere! He has forgotten more than I will ever know about hunting.
Where Ray has hunted
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(on Ruhiji) I have not hunted those areas in several years but I have hunted next to them in the last few years....both are very good concession, the Kigosi is just below the Mayowashi and is swampy, and has some terrific bulls on the islands...
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I have hunted Mahenge several times, but I don't recall if it was North or South,
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The Moyowosi ...I have hunted it many times and its a great experience as is the nearby Kigosi which is a series of islands to be boated to daily and hunted
(Ray sometimes get's confused about where he has been ...)
I have hunted the Selous a couple of times
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...I have hunted so many [Selous] blocks it has become a blur..I have never hunted in a bad block in the Selous.
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I have hunted all the above concessions and found them all to be excellent (LU2, R2, K1, K2, K4, LU5, R2)
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I have hunted R1 about 11 years ago It is hilly and flat where I was.
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I have hunted the Mayowashi many times and its always been one of my favorite areas....
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I have hunted the 4 cornors of the earth
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I have hunted Africa with the 416 Rem since its birth
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I have hunted the outback of Austrailia
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I have hunted the So. Texas brush about as much as anyone
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...I have hunted their many times... (RSA)
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....I have hunted about everywhere in Tanzania and Zimbabwe.
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I have hunted about everywhere there is to hunt in Africa and those places I have not hunted I have visited at one time or another most likly...
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I have hunted with and know some of the great PHs of all time, it was an honor to just listen...
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I have hunted about every nook and cranny in Africa for all species...
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You will all be embarressed when Ray comes out with his book detailing all his adventures. As far as I know, he is the only person who has hunted this much who has not written a book. (But, don't forget his 18,600 posts on AR! That should count for something!)
Now, I will tell you guys, if you doubt his experience, consider that if Ray has not done it, he has seen it!
What Ray has seen
I have seen it done more than several times.. [elephant brained with a 375]
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I saw a 505 wack an elephant in the head front on and it didn't phase that old boy...
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I have seen over 50 Buffalo and know of a 100 being shot with Noslers in our camps alone
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[458 Lott] I have seen several big bulls shot with that round with a 500 gr. solid at 2350 FPS with 84 grs. of IMR-4320
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I have seen Elephant shot and killed with a 7x57 ...I have used it on Buffalo sucessfully.
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As to culling with the .308, there is a hell of a lot of difference in a full auto burst of 308s in the head of an elephant than one shot from a bolt gun.. I have witness these culls and if shot no. 1 doesn't drop an elephant, and many many times it will not the a full auto burst will..that ain't no fair comparison, that full aut burst is a devastating killer akin to a 900 N. E.
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I conseder the 9.3x62 an nice minimum but acceptable DG rifle..I have shot a number of Buffalo with it and have seen a couple of elephant taken with it...
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I have seen two buff take 9 shots from two 470's and another took 13 hits from a 500, 470 and 577 before expiring....
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I have seen Lion and Eland shot with the 30-06 and 300 H&H
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I know a few that use the 460 Wby ..... I have witnessed a number of Buff, a couple of elephant and one lion killed with it by clients
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Now, if he hasn't seen it, he has killed it with any manner of rifle known to mankind. I had no idea that so many guns were popular to shoot Buffalo with! I thought that people only used adequate calibers, I stand corrected! Apparently, people will use any caliber of gun to take on a Buffalo.
What Ray has killed and with what caliber
I have killed a few Buffalo with a borrowed 308 and military ball ammo...
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I have killed a hell of lot of Buffalo with solids without any problems and I have seen a lot of Buffalo killed with solids...
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The best 223, 222 or 22-250 deer bullet is hands down the 60 gr. Hornady H.P. or S.P....I have killed a world of Blesbok, Springbok, Mule deer and antelope with them
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Saeed,
I'm going to have to correct the situation of you having killed more Buffalo than anyone on this board, by the time I get back in October, even if I have to stay a couple of extra weeks and cull...
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I killed a few buff with a military 8x57 with german ww2 ball ammo, and every third or fouth one misfired...
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..I have killed Cape Buffalo with a milsurp 8mm Mauser with old ammo that fired every 3rd round
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Just take the .338, it will do anything the 375 or the 300 will do...I have all three and the .338 is usually the one I pick short of buffalo and I have killed a few buffalo with it.
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I have killed several Cape Buff with a .338 Win....
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9.3x62 ...I have neatly killed Cape Buffalo with that load and with the 286 gr. Nosler at 2520 FPS
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I have always shot the 450-400 and probably killed 30 or 40, maybe more buffalo with it..I have shot a dozen or two with my .470 Searcy...
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in fact I have killed nemourous Buffalo with the 450-400s in both 3 and 3-1/4" length with perfect satisfaction...
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I have shot the 505 a lot and I have hunted with it and killed Buffalo with it and the 500 Jefferys...
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I have culled Springbuck and Blesbok with the 22-250 and 6x45 and got instant kills...I did have a few rather sloppy kills that fortunately did not get away, but that was out of hundreds of animals shot...
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I have killed a number of Eland with the 260 partition, but I sure prefer the 300 gr. Nosler for them...
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I have shot about everything in Africa up to and encluding Buffalo with the 06 and I have seen the 300 H&H used on Buffalo and they both worked great on everything, but both killed the buffalo a little slow IMO.
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"In a pinch", a 308 will work for buffalo, I have used it and several other of its class including 8x57 with military ball ammo, and my 300 H&H has killed one buff for me and several for a friend of mine...
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the 338 Win is my all time baby ... I have killed Cape Buffalo with it on ocassions and it does'em up neat and tidy.
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I really like the 338 Win. I have killed everything on earth except elephant with it..and I would not hesitate to do that ....
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BUT I have also killed Buffalo with a 7x57, 8x57 ... a 308 and a 30-06, and both 9.3s,
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I have killed as many buffalo as any American born citizen that I know....I have hunted about everywhere in Tanzania and Zimbabwe.
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I have made a one gun safari several times with a 375 and a 416 Rem.
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But my favorite Buffalo bullet is the new Northfork cup point..I have now shot about a dozen buffalo in the last two years with the Northfork ..I have used them in 375, 416, 404 and 470 and the cup point is the do it all bullet, expands a just right and penetrates like a solid, and knocks those old boys down hard..
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I have shot buffalo at beyond 250 yards on rare ocassions
I have also shot Buffalo at two feet off my barrel in high grass
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Woodleigh....Round nose bonded core, been around forever and they surly do work, I have been using Woodleighs foe nearly 30 years I think....I killed a 375 B&C elk with a 300 gr. Woodleigh RN in my 338 this year.
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Anyone who thinks they will not use Ray for their next hunt should reconsider .... after all, he has to shoot the biggest animals of any booking agent I have ever heard of!
Ray on setting expectations:
I have a 10 day elephant, Croc, Hippo hunt in the Gache Gache area of Zimbabwe...elephants will go from 45 to 75 lbs (Isn't that pretty big?)
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[The Selous] It has a huge, by comparison to anywhere else, Buffalo population and everyone kills a good bull...It has some real quality big bulls and I have always seen or killed big bulls in the Selous, in fact the best I have killed was in the Selous..(referring to his 40"Buffalo killed with Pierre a few years ago)
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and the biggest bull I ever shot there was ... over 50 inches ... another a client shot one that had drop to the ground almost, and a 36 inch spread and he was beatiful...My best bull is displayed on my web page and he only has a hair under 40 inches. (wait, isnt 50" bigger than 39")
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I have seen a number of 42 to 46 inch Buffalo in the Selous over the years and even killed a few of them
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....your expectations are reasonable and I suspect you will be able to get a nice 42 to 43 inch bull if you give yourself enough time, [in the Selous]...I have always seen plus 40 inch bulls in the selous, sometimes I didn't get them because they didn't get that big being stupid...All of these concession produce a number of 40 inch and better bulls every year,
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I have some trophy Mule Deer and we kill two or three each year in the 208 to 235 B&C class, spreads of 40 plus inches, which is pretty good because we only take about 7 hunters.... (wouldn't that be about 30-40% on 208 or better deer? I should have booked this hunt with him!)
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I have had a cancellation on my Texas Mule Deer Trophy hunts...This hunt is on a 20,000 acre low fenced ranch that backs up to about 100,000 acres of Gov. land..
These may be the best trophy deer in the world today, they only allow you to shoot the big ones, the largest shot so far was a 46" spread, 30 inch beam and 6 inch base, Texas no. 1...A number of 170 to 180 were shot and several each year over 200..The adjoining ranch I have booked up into 2008 shot several in the 200 to 234 B&C class...This is one heck of a trophy mule deer country and about half what the guys in Mexico are getting...
Cost: $2000. for 4 days (Dec.4 through 7) fully guided, $2000.00 for kill...Also have some openings for 2006..
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we have some great Bear Hunts at $9,500.00 and everyone gets a bear in a day or two...We have ventured elsewhere in the country with good results and last year they killed a Moose in the 80" spread catagory, now thats BIG and some of the elk will scare you to death.....
And, Just for fun ....other statements about the most interesting life of Walter Mitty, um, I mean Ray Atkinson
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The next elephant I kill will have no less than 100 lbs of Ivory or I will never shoot another one, so that would be my holy grail...unless someone found me an Ethopian Sable...
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I have shot a lot of stuff from the truck, I have jumped out of the truck and shot from a nearby tree, I have shot them at night, and I have shot them running while we chased them in a truck...I have also walked the track behind the elephant for 20 miles a day, day after day, climbed the highest slopes for various sheep, climbed some damn rough country in Idaho, Alaska, canada and other parts of the world, been on some grueling hunts, and some cakewalks...and I made all the choices myself
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You can't make stuff up that's any funnier.. search tool at AR: I leased the 75,000 ac. Rosillas Mt. Ranch in the Big Bend of Texas, 90 miles So. of Marathon, Texas in the 70s and it had wild longhorn cattle on it that had Cap Yates brand on them so most of the old branded cows had to be at least 20 years old. I was told I could shoot them, have them hunted or do whatever I wanted to with them as they could not be gathered..
Over the next 120 days me and 4 Mexican cowboys roped them, sewed their eyelids near shut and lead them out one at a time to my pens. I sold them to JD Bloodworth in Colorado..I shot one steer but only because he had 7 ropes on him, and he presented himself at just the right time, he had a fantastic set of horns so I had him butchered and his head mounted. The meat was not good at all..
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you guys crack me up! Who has the time to research someone like that?
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You put me on ignore? That's flattering and it rocks! You seem to know what I like - not what I dislike.
And for the love of God, please stop sending me personal messages that say you want to kill me, then you love me, then you want to kill me.. Your schizobipolarism is off the charts. Well congratulations mouth....you are now on my ignore list. Now kindly f_ck off and take your vitriol elsewhere.....your word is no good here.
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You put me on ignore? That's flattering and it rocks! You seem to know what I like - not what I dislike.
And for the love of God, please stop sending me personal messages that say you want to kill me, then you love me, then you want to kill me.. Your schizobipolarism is off the charts. Got the wrong guy there, gayhorn. I don't want to snuff anyone here. I think you've been getting too many private messages for you to keep track of. I did send one, but it had no threats. You're a liar, as well as an azzhole.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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You put me on ignore? That's flattering and it rocks! You seem to know what I like - not what I dislike.
And for the love of God, please stop sending me personal messages that say you want to kill me, then you love me, then you want to kill me.. Your schizobipolarism is off the charts. Got the wrong guy there, gayhorn. I don't want to snuff anyone here. I think you've been getting too many private messages for you to keep track of. I did send one, but it had no threats. You're a liar, as well as an azzhole. Finally, something we can all agree on.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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I am just glad that the Ray Atkinson supporters have something other than whats really important to focus on  Also, just want to point out that I called this over on AR 2 years ago when Ray was advertising an illegal NM mule deer hunt. If you want to see what was advertised just do a search but here was me being clairvoyant Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
In all seriousness, I think AR needs to take a look at his practices and make a decision on whether or not he should be allowed to advertise here, he just advertised a hunt and was promoting illegal practices. Accident or not the members of AR deserve better from anybody promoting these hunts here. Anybody that has spent time hunting the west knows that you cannot hunt both seasons in NM!
If he doesnt know the rules right here in the USA how could anybody trust what he says about hunting in a 3rd world country? Its downright scary
Drummond Drummond
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Posts: 195 |
Two things I have noticed by following AR and here:
1. Ray's prices seem to be a couple grand more than what other booking agents charge for 'discounted' hunts. I've seen that several times. Can't blame the guy though, he's trying to make a buck like everyone else. Just funny to see multiple agents selling the same hunt only Ray's is higher.
2. Drummond posts pictures of his hunts. Proofs in the pudding so to speak. Never known Drummond to hunt any fenced areas. I know that he hunts Colorado and Mexico quite a bit and he's led his hunters to some absolute monster muleys and elk.
I'd hunt with Drummond any day.
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