Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 7mm mag on elk vs. heavier calibers

bsa: Heck I built the Mashburn because I was itching for another rifle ; something I would actually use and not let gather dust.....and thought the project would be fun...(I had not had a wildcat in a good many years)and not because I needed it,for sure.Plus Dober and Docbill seemed to be the only Mashburn users on here,and I had always been curious about the cartridge.

I like Partitions as a hunting bullet;the Mashburn makes the heavy 160-175 gr bullets go fast as I need them,and it seemed like a very nice balance of carry weight,tolerable recoil,lethal effect,and ranging ability. The fact that the 7mm's have taken everything in North America,and in Africa as well,didn't hurt either.

We see JB,AGW,Ingwe, and others on here knocking off elk and moose and critters of the same size in Africa with 7x57's;Scenar rolls them with a 308,near and far.....

I don't worry about calibers much any more,which is why I shoot/own so few....and I ain't gonna lose a moments sleep worrying about whether the same range of 7mm bullets, at higher velocity,is gonna work on a bull elk. To me it's just this great,big non-issue..

There are far more imortant things to worry about....like getting to go elk hunting.If I can do that, I don't really much care, within reason, what I use

Well said and philosophically impregnable Bob. If this was a rational thing.

I think there's a Commandment somewhere though that says, he who carries expensive custom rifle in obscure chambering, shall not laugh at others overthinking same! Lol. Or maybe it's a Chinese proverb. Sumptin'.

Jeff: I could not agree more....get what you want and hunt it with confidence....that's my point.

Kenneth �

It�s a sickness shared by many. I should know�

For 20 years my 7mm RM killed elk with boring efficiency. In 2001 I added a Marlin in .375 Winchester, then a Marlin .45-70 in 2002. A .257 Roberts went into the safe in January 2004 and a .300 Win Mag joined it that Christmas. Like a rock rolling down a steep slope and gathering speed, the rifles came faster and faster - .30-30, .308 Win, three .30-06s and a 6.5-06AI. Now I�m slowly putting together another custom, just need the barrel.

It used to be I�d grab my 7mm RM, stoked with 160g Grand Slams and, for backup, my Browning B92 in .44 Mag with 240g FP�s and go hunting. Simple. These days I spend 11 months thinking about which rifle to use and what bullets to load it with. Things tend to narrow down fairly quickly but it is common to make the final decision based on the last range session.

The upside is I spend those 11 months having fun, whether it is playing with new bullets and loads or tweaking old ones or just practicing with loads I�ve already developed. So much more fun than boring simplicity�

Jeff, I would get rid of all the guns you mentioned, get a moderate weight(8lb) 300wsm,win mag, or ultra mag and stop worrying about sorting fly shat from pepper.

Bob.. I really think for Elk the Mashburn could be on the light side using those 160 and 175s.......why don't you consider a caliber shooting a 250 grain bullet at say 2,940+ fps...seems like Elmer once recommended such a cartridge for Elk...

The .340 is a very good contender for the title of elk round as well. I wore out a couple barrels trying to convince myself it was a better round for elk than my Mashburn....grin

Dober

7mm, shy on Elk??? Shirly you jest. I believe that Less Bowman took the 338 win case and necked it to 7mm and let his Elk hunting clients use it. He then convinced Remington to commercialize the cartridge, because it was so effective on Elk

Pretty sure he was saying it TIC...right?

Side note, good to see others who knew Bowman writings now that man had his stuff together!!

Dober

Hagel liked the 340 too...but I like more bullet mass and therefore am not a 340 fan...I once knew a fella who did some test using a heavier caliber vs the 340 and the heavier caliber won hands down out to 400 yards...the limit to which I would shoot any game animal...I think his test may also include the Mashburn....in fact maybe he would do such a test and provide us with the results...would be interesting...

Huh...what heavier cal than 340 was he using and kind of a test was he doing to sort this out?

And yeah, I recall Bob liking the .340. For some reason or another after meeting him I gravitated to both the Mash and the .340...grin

Also, what do you like for more bullet mass on elk than what the .340 has to offer? I shot the 275's a fair bit but mainly on chucks/yotes etc.

Dober

Mark...just messing with you about the Mashburn...I knew Art back when I lived in OKC...and have talked to Bobin NH several times about the Mashburn...I believe Hagel even used his Mashburn on animals the size of AY Moose with no problems...the test with the 340 and 375 H&H were interesting to say the least..the 340 was the 210 Nosler and the 375 H&H with the 250...maybe we can talk Bobin NH into doing another test vs the Mashburn..as far as the 340 I still have mine but after my 1st Grizzly hunt I went to the 375....of course Bob Hagel informed me I was making a mistake...but 18 shots and 14 NA bears later the ol' 375 H&H with BBCs are still doing the job...in all fairness to the 340 I most likely picked the wrong bullet on my 1st Grizzly...

The bullets are the most important element in which caliber penetrates the most

Yep I agree...that is why I use BBC and Nosler Partitions...and to a lesser degree Carter's Trophy Boned from Texas...not Federal stuff..

I had a thread over a year back titled "In defense of big rifles"* that a number of you contributed to. There was some good stuff in that thread from a lot of people with a lot of experience. If I was going to pare down a couple observations from that thread:

Bullets that take out vital functions make things dead. That's true if it's a .243 for elk or a 7x57 for elephant. Everybody knows this 'cause it's actually been done. But...

...at what point is there an ADVANTAGE to more rifle? The 2nd rifle I ever owned (and the 1st I purchased with my own money) was a 7mmRM. Especially with modern bullets it's silly to think you can't make a killing shot from any sane distance on an elk. When I considered stepping up I didn't really think there was much to gain with a .300 but instead went to a .338. (Actually a .340 Bee) I personally think there's an advantage but as far as "power" is concerned most people seem to think there's a law of diminishing returns and I tend to agree. Is there a way to measure it? Not that I can tell. But will anybody argue that a +30 mag won't cover a 7mm's bets 100% of the time? I won't, and I doubt I'm alone. What about the other way? For an identical shot would a .340 make a difference 1% of the time? 2%? 5% maybe? For argument let's say it does. Is that enough? Is it worth the extra cost of weight and recoil? (I'm with Dober in that as I get older carrying the Bee is becoming more a deal breaker than the recoil. And no, that doesn't mean I should just go out and have a 7lb .340 built )

Something to ponder; if you had a "magic" rifle that was identical in every way to your favorite 7mm (or 308/'06/etc) but could fire .340's with no increase in recoil or muzzle blast would you prefer it over the non-magical calibers? Why? So you'd take the ballistics if you got them for free? If the answer is yes then you DO believe there at least MIGHT be an advantage...but without "magic" rifles you have to decide if that "might" is worth the cost.

*For any that might have missed it but want to peruse that earlier thread for more on the topic:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3067972/1

Jeff anyone who thinks there is a practical difference between a 7mm 30 or 33 cal in in the lungs of a elk is only kidding themselves.A good bullet and shot placement is the key.

Wasted keystrokes, bro..

Anyone who wasn't hooked to a bong all waking hours (and looking to save some bucks) would buy one of those cheep A7's in .300 WSM and START LEARNING about hunting elk and open country muleys..

Yeah, I think it was right here when dober hooked Bob (hook line and sinker):


Absolutely nothing wrong with it though. Maybe they're on to something here. I've heard there's nothing you can't do with a 175 gr. nosler partiton (or similarly constructed bullet) in one of these things.

Dober; OU76 is talking about drop tests to 400 yards my pal, Paul and I did a few years back with his 340 and the 210 Partition at 3125, against my 375 with the 250's at 2900+.

Paul is an engineer, astute ballistically,and a good shot.We got to the targets,and the results had him scratching his head.....I remember his comment...."......uh...this can't be right....where are you holding?" So, we did it again.....and again...Short of it,the 375 was staying right along with the 340 with those particular bullets.

Now things could change with other bullets available today....but I will hook up with Paul and his 340 after the seasons and Holidays are done,and run the same tests again to post results.

Were the scope hieghts the same and were both sithed in at the same distance. What was the BC of the bullets tested


Although 400 yards is really not far enough for the advantage of one over the other to really show up