Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Small Better Than Big ???

I had a thread going about the .338 Federal.

Chrome posted this.......

I hunted one last year.

A Ruger 77 Stainless Steel Hawkeye. It would put 180 Nosler Ballistic Tips inside an inch at 100 yards. Was getting 2,740 fps.

I shot a doe (double lung shot) at 60 yards, she made a mad dash for 50 yards then crashed.
Was thinking more power than I need and sold it to a pard that hunts elk on a regular basis.

I shot a doe last week in the same area as the one taken with the .338 Federal. She was poked in the brisket with a 45 grain Barnes XLT out of a .223 and dropped DRT.

Then Steelhead came back with........

I'd much rather shoot deer with a 223AI than with a 338 Federal or it's ilk.

The above example is something I've seen over and over again.

What is happening here???


Is a whitetail just not enough to open up a bigger bullet???

bullits that it

Maybe Steelhead is just cranky and doesn't like those funky Federals?

I'd not worry much. To me it's rare that pure lung hits yield many DRT's anyway. Load up some 200 gr Hornady's and go kill some deer.

Little and fast, assuming good construction, impresses deer much more than big and slow.

Not a difficult concept to follow.

This arguement is like the old golf saying.

Drive for show, put for dough

Fast has benefits, but with big and slow you can eat right up to the bullet hole. Now if you can figure out how to make soup out of blood shot meat.

DRT doesn't make the deer taste better

Really, so how many have you shot with a little X bullet? Again more guessing.

Worth a read....

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/06/30-06-day.html

Shot'em with everything from a 54 cal Muzzle loader to bow including 243's

Kind of hard to drive a ford focus when I've got the pick up in the driveway - same thing with rifles.

Funny thing about personal pref. - Tell ya what - video tape some deer shot with a 223 vs. 06, show some meat damage in the shots from both and if it's a better performer I'll give it a shot.

I do know I haven't had a non-pass through on my 338 fed and 30-06 on deer - but that has some to do with the shooter as well.

Spot

It don't offend me any if a deer runs 50 yards, all I've ever said is that I've seen more drop right now with little and fast.

This year was another example, helped track a guys doe he shot with a 30/06 and 180's. Had a few of use with lights and finally found her about 175 yards away. Perfect shot, but it didn't impress her much for awhile.

The 10 point I shot with the 6mm/223 went maybe 20 yards. But to be fair I didn't plug that deer in the running gear as I typically do.


I do know I've only caught 1 223 bullet, and it's not the bullet I typically use.


It don't have to be a 223, throw an 85gr X at almost 3400 fps into the running gear and see stuff drop.

Outside CNS you can never count on a drop, but I've never found one running a 150 yards after the shot to be more preferable over one that drops there.

I have to agree with you that faster drops them more quickly than slow.

I also like shooting lighter bullets more than heavies
I may need to try the 223 tsx combo, most of the lighter stuff I've shot was with lead bullets, and that can be messy.

Tracking game is part of the deal for the most part, it isn't easy all the time - and newb's have a hard time doing it.

TSX break the rules so I'd be ok shooting a deer wtih a 223 tsx.

If an double lung arrow shot takes them down, I'm sure a 223 will do it.

Spot

Ive used them both...alot...and I usually do shoot them through the heart/lungs rather than in the front running gear.Overall my experience says little and fast and they drop over quicker, often within 30 yards. Big and slow and they will usually go 50-100 yards.


" Often" and "usually" are the operative words there...but generally ( also operative word) speaking....little and fast.....

Here is a classic Keith vs O'Connor debate ...In my younger yrs I was a believer in the big and slow mentality but as I get older, sub 30's driven faster are the way I go. I've also come to the conclusion that put one in the boiler room and it dies no matter what(within reason). I'm not a user of the Barnes X bullets but it looks as that may change and need to experiment during the off season. These are ones that look like the small and fast camp love and do it w/o excessive meat loss.

Can you imaging if the Barnes X bullets were around during the 40's and 50's where the fued may have gone....

Steely,
The 85 x at 3400, which cartridge??? I have a 243 that are going to try some of these.

I've killed an awful lot of deer over the past 35 years and I've used a wide variety of cartridges and bullets. Including everything from .222, .223., .22-250 and .243 on the small/fast side, to 12 and 20 ga. slugs and .50 caliber lead conicals from a muzzleloader on the big/slow side. In my experience, "putting one through the running gear" with anything will usually drop a deer immediately so long as the bullet has enough integrity to break bone and penetrate. The Barnes fans here prove nothing when they drop deer immediately and repeatedly with this shot placement. I've done the same many times over with 170 gr. .30-30 core-lokts, shotgun slugs and .50 cal. maxi balls. With lung shots "fast" tends to drop them a little quicker on average than "slow" providing you use a bullet that tends toward rapid expansion. The "big and slow" bullets/cartridges are very dependable killers though, and do tend to produce good blood trails. A few extra yards of tracking doesn't bother me.

What about big and fast?

Any distance parameters for a gut shot?

Big and fast will almost always sometimes work......

Thanks for the link-Good stuff.

Lot's of great articles on this site.

I may be something of a luddite but long ago I found that a heavy for calibre bullet at a respectable velocity --if your hunting bullet is going over 3000fps, you need to add some weight of metal-- will kill stuff very dead. And so I've never gotten into the "let's see what I can do with this tiny bullet" craze. If I had ever had to track a deer or elk 150 yards, maybe I'd give it a try.

Will agree on many counts...the only thing Ive shot more deer with than my 7x57 with 162s or 175s ( at a whopping 2600 fps..)was a .223...they both put venison in the freezer...and for that matter, I always liked the way a .375 H&H with 300 grainers worked..on anything..