Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why the 270-08 Winchester BEATS a 7mm-08 140 Corelokt

JWP, let's see here:

Remington has the 280 and still makes and sells it. It comes in a long action rifle. The 280 came out in 1957. The 270 came out in 1925.

You want to tell me WHY Remington is able to sell 280s? WHAT ballistically CAN and DOES a 280 do, KILLING, better than a 270?

I won't hold my breath. They are BOTH the same ballistically.

It's a headstamp issue. You keep focusing on functional aspects/dimensions of one round vs. the other.

ALL work, we have agreed upon that, yet you want to disagree with my idea and that's fine, your point is made.

The fact is in ANY business, a certain segment of consumers Look, WANT, and BUY, 'New Products' because they are the trend setters and thought leaders.

I think you are very closed minded to anything new.

Again, Give me YOUR new rifle cartridge proposal of something that deer hunters will buy.

Waiting..........anyone else. Give me your ideas. Let's put them all out here in the open.

What? No ideas? NO creative intellect here?

OH, perhaps nobody with the Balls to speak up and risk a shellacking

Anyone with Better ideas, I am ALL ears, love to hear the idea, in full - complete w/ballistic comparisons supporting it's value, and a marketing strategy guaranteeing success in how you are going to market and SELL this to the MASS buying public. SO bulletproof, not even the likes of a JWP, VA, or anyone else can ridicule.

TFF.

I tend to think that for now we are in the time of the 7mm and it will be a good while before we see anything with a .277 bore introduced and truly take off commercially.

You may be correct sir, the 30's market is saturated, the 6.5s not much wanted in the USA but slowly growing among Loony's and non-loony's alike, and apparently nobody 'wants' any new 270 rounds if we consider the feedback here any indication of the masses.

Perhpas the catalyst to NEW 270 rounds would be NEW higher B.C. .277 Bullets, yet those must be accompanied by faster twist barrels to work. THEN perhaps the 277 bore size would have a re-newed vigor of interest....esp. paper punchers. Perhaps - we may never know. We have seen some interest in the '6.8s' though mostly in the AR platforms.

What sir - and I am not posing a trick question, but what do you 'envision' as a new 7mm round for bolt rifles? If any?

Thanks for your post.

No doubt the marketplace is crowded and saturated, but I still anticipate seeing new additions, whether a success or failure commercially.

I do think the industry found some success w/20 caliber rounds i.e. 204 and others, many wildcats. Great Varmint rounds.

Since the 25 caliber market place is 'not as crowded' would you suppose there may be room in that bore size? No doubt it's been less popular, yet unlike the Euro originating 6.5mm's, the quarter bore does IIRC have roots here, and perhaps that would help, I am not sure.

I know there are 25 caliber fans here, perhaps they would feel a 25-08 or something else, might be viable.

Anyone? I am open minded and listening........

I would like to see a commercialized 6.5-06.
I would have one of those!

No ballistic comparison will validate any new cartridge. It will have to be the package. The Ruger Hawkeye rifles for example have garnered a lot of interest.
There is so much over lap in cartridge already as to offer little to no room. A 27-08 offers nothing that a 260 rem or 7-08 doesn't already offer. Personally I prefer the 7X57 because it is loaded to lower pressure than the 708 and in a lightweight short barreled rifle is a joy to shoot

You call it ridicule, the rest of the free world calls it reality

The 280 was brought out in the Remington semi auto to approach 270 trajectories. At the time the semi would not take the pressure of the 270 and that is the niche that the 280 filled
Even so the 280 is a very slow mover

The is no niche to fill with a 270-08

I think it might sell to a few, it has had a following fan base for a long time, since perhaps the 256 Newton IIRC, the 25-06 Neidner has done well.

I was thinking the very round Might just be something Ruger might do, they are treading new waters pushing the 6.5C for it's short action, heck, if you want to run a 26" bolt, you might just run a 24-25" 6.5-06.

I think if standardized/Saami'd it would be a good round. MY experience has only been knowing a gent who owned a wildcat long ago, by a reputable smith. The owner got me started into handloaded, and he had some serious pressure issues in it and sold it. I believe he needed to get handle on neck turning brass- something he never did to his brass.

I believe the smith was Womack, on a '98, he said it was a very accurate rifle.

The 6.5 x 64 Brenneke has created some interest.

Its been oft mentioned as well: Twist.

Ruger and Kimber have already hedged their bets on those packages.

Did someone mention the 264 cal. Hawkeye on the 375 Ruger case, spun 1-8? It might even be a 7mm. The .277 caliber is right where it will always be, in a 270 Winchester.

A SA/ "lighter recoiling" 277 has no market, period.

Yep, looks like a lot of Rem vs Win going on in your mind.

You like the round if it's referred to as a 6.5-308 Winchester, but not as a 260 Rem.



Nope, no anti-Remington here either....

Do you ever question whether Winchester acknowledges the success of the hugely popular 7mm REMINGTON Magnum?



There are very few "guarantees" in life, and even less in the overcrowded cartridge-creating arena. With an overabundance of more than adequate, and very much overlapping and redundant, chamberings available, there is very little room left for reinventing the wheel in the sporting rounds world.



No thorn here. Remington happens to be my first choice, although there are a few Winchesters ( ), Rugers, Marlins, and others in the safe. As a matter of fact, my competition target rifle is built on a M70 action, one of four old M70's leaning there. My shelves are loaded with Remington, Winchester, and Federal ammo, with all kinds of headstamps from both camps. My handloads may use Rem brass holding Win primers (I wonder if they have little fights inside the boxes at night when nobody's around?). I freely support whichever one produces the best of what I need in that item.

I think that you're obsessed over something that is not going to happen, by any major manufacturer. If it's a slam dunk, get a reamer cut to your specs, build something, develop the ammo, and pitch the idea to the big boys. If successful, you can bask in the glory, and come back here to rub everybody's nose in it. My bet is that you won't get so much as a return phone call...

JWP, agree, ballistics alone will never make a round successfully and the package I proposed was in a handy short actioned carbine. Know a fella who put a surplus 7x57 bbl on a Ruger, turned down the steps, chopped at 19 or 20" at spits 140s at 3k, pressure unknown, but in a handy light stock. Works.

No doubt, the 280 is a slower mover, the 7/08 better, both same bore size, yet the 7/08 is in a package that has a niche demand.

What do you do for a living (rhetorical question, no need to actually answer).

In YOUR business, how well is the idea of "any idea, even if a commercial failure", received?

Have you ever once, for even a moment, thought that the major makers are in this to make a PROFIT, and not to constantly float new experiments to keep a tiny portion of their audience amused, at their expense?

Seriously?

I guess a lot of us are waiting to hear YOUR foolproof marketing strategy here as well....

Hawk, no doubt, there CAN be no market for something that does not exist.

Coldbore, I had Pac-Nor do a 6.5-308 for me in 1995. Asquare as you may know applied for Saami, yet somehow things did not play out for Asquare even though they were first. Makes no difference to me, I OWN a Custom FULL BLOWN 260 Rem so Stamped on the bbl. I also have some RP brass.

I have said and agree the market is saturated. In 308 siblings, the 25 and 27 bore have yet to be standardized. Who knows if/when and who may do it.

As to my 'aspirations' to make a buck in the industry, I truly have none. I enjoy this OUTSIDE the commercial aspect. Being 'Inside' would take some fun factor out for me.

65 I think what you have here is a two fold problem..First so many of these wildcat conversions only get the attention of rifle loonies like us...and secondly its gonna take a marketing genius to talk average joe hunter out of his 243/270/7mag and 30/06...I think if you took a national poll and asked these people what do you think of the 260/..7/08 or winchester shorts they wouldn't have a clue..there lies your answer IMO...Flem

Sometimes a cartridge fins its own niche, even when that niche is different than the one the designer had in mind.

For instance, Jack Huntington designed the 500 JRH in order to fit a 50 caliber cartridge into the FA-83. FA seemed interested in the cartridge and asked Jack for spec's on chambering and for cases. Jack thought that FA intended to produce the FA-83 in 500 JRH, but they did not. FA brought out a near ballistic twin but with a belt instead of a rim to chamber in the FA-83.

Here comes the amazing part. BFR started chambering the 500 JRH in the BFR's from the custom shop. The BFR doesn't need the small rim to fit in there cylinder the way that the FA-83 does. BFR is going to announce at this years shot show that the 500 JRH will now be offered in the across the counter BFR's and Grizzly ammo is making the factory ammo for the cartridge.

I know this because Grizzly is using my 500 JRH to test and evaluate their factory ammo.

Not as big of a fool as you think there hotshot

There must be an interest to develop a cartridge that doesn't exist, no interest =s no development

I think the niche is glutted and until there is a major new development in cases or propellents you will not see a new cartridge the will have a significant impact of the market. I think right now though most shooters are more attracted to the .284 bore than the .277 diameter. One advantage is the wider choice of bullets for the 7mm.

The results are inconsequential since I see the difference in performance is as important as two beautiful twins except one is more willing to be versatile in her preferences.

Have not read the thread...

A couple buddies bought 270 WSM's because it's a (debateably) tangible upgrade over ol' Faithful the .270, of which they were intimatly acquainted.

With the .270/08 being a downgrade in performance it's hard to see the appeal of it.

Just my impression.

I chron'ed a 270 WSM at the range for a guy a while back and with Winchester factory ammo his rifle got 3225 FPS. That is moving in a user friendly package

I agree with Jeff_O why would a down grade in performance in .277 bore be appealing to the general shooting public?