|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
While I think we have proven without a doubt you don't know schit about an Echols Legend you may know about the Marlin. Hope they fix it in the future and you can get your ideal hunting rifle.  We are all victim of our experience.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
Luckily you got us all learned up about $20k HS precision M700's also.
Would the Greybull signature series bedding block alone on a marlin command a $10k price tag Burns?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7 |
Where in hell do you come up with $20K?
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
The $20k model is limited edition.It's engraved with a pic of burns stump breaking his mule.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,788 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,788 Likes: 1 |
Bauer,
I just came up with a curious thought?
Do you have a SC FN Winchester M70 in 375HH?
?
Thomas
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,561
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,561 |
Value?, Worth?
Pretty subjective terms because everybody has their own relative idea of it. Based on Brians excellent outline of all their machining steps and 12-14 rifles per year in production I'm going to guesstimate that they probably have close to 400+ hrs per rifle in man hours, possibly more. I can only imagine the tooling set up time for each of the operations. Where I live a highly skilled machinist makes over $30 an hr before benefits, employer taxes, SSI, etc. Thats over 12k per rifle just in manpower. Add to that, tooling, CNC equipment, parts, buildings, lights, insurance, phones, etc, etc,
Time is money and so is the value of highly skilled craftsmen.
A very good attorney friend of mine won't bat an eye when he tells you his going rate is $350 an hour. When your backside is in a real jam and you need some expert legal help do you want a $150 an hour wannabe lawyer or a real attorney that thats worth every penny of his fee?
When you want the apex of anything, whether its a custom rifle crafted by highly skilled and experienced hands, or a handmade mahogany runabout boat or the custom built home of your dreams, unless you can do it better yourself, your best bet is to tell them exactly what you want, and unless they have a question for you, or there is a problem, then keep your mouth shut, write the checks and let the experts do their work.
JME
Men ocassionaly stumble over the truth from time to time but, most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.
- Winston Churchill-
NRA Endowment Life Member
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
Brian,
You forgot to add the last step to building Legends, where everybody in the shop drives home at the end of each day in their Rolls-Royces.
See you in Reno! Pardon me Sir, do you have any Grey Poupon?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 186
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 186 |
Bauer...just a suggestion...
Why don't you take some of that pile of money you've saved being so thrifty and enroll in a top notch charm school?
Cope
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,665 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,665 Likes: 6 |
Brian is there any way you could share the actual steps used in the making of a Legend M70.Preferably not just a copy and paste of the standard brochure type response? Thanks.
"Hey, Brian, while I see no value in your product and have no interest in purchasing one, please take an hour or two out of your busy day to appease me"....The word "narcissist" comes to mind. Muchos kudos to Brian for being a gentleman, and, for a well-crafted response.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Bauer...just a suggestion...
Why don't you take some of that pile of money you've saved being so thrifty and enroll in a top notch charm school? Priceless ROTFLMFAO 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,341 Likes: 6
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,341 Likes: 6 |
Brian Bingham,
Your responses are as classy as anything I have ever seen here.
Al
Al
Spend your life wisely.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813 |
Here is one that was up for resale at one time: http://www.gunsinternational.com/D-...16-Remington-magnum.cfm?gun_id=100113296Same as John Burns rifles. No one is making anyone purchase anything. Seems like Echols is upfront with what he does and since he is still making rifles there seems to be enough customers who agree with his price. There will always be items that we buy that could be replaced with something less expensive. There is nothing wrong with pride of ownership and appreciation of the craftsmanship that goes into the more expensive product. There will always be those who only purchase something based on look at what I have, and there will always be those who pony up for the same item because they have a true appreciation of the extras that go into making something the best it can be. Addition: I have a good machinist/rifle nut friend who I'm sure if he could afford a Legend would buy one based solely on his awareness and knowledge of the skill and workmanship that went into the final product. Those Mountain Men of the past according to passed down history payed additional pelts to buy a Hawken. Why? It was the best to be had at the time.
Last edited by battue; 01/06/11.
laissez les bons temps rouler
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,771
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,771 |
Did quite a bit of work over the years, for a doctor that once lived in this area. He lived in a house he had built when he came here, that sold for roughly $1.2 million when he eventually moved out of state.
Also owned a Ferrari, Pantera and several other pricey vehicles while he lived here. All in all, a peach of a feller to work for and pretty down to earth, despite his income and niche in society.
Asked him once why he wanted a Ferrari, when his daily drivers were mostly a 'Vette or his new Toyota Land Cruiser. He answered that he'd always wanted one, could afford it and liked driving something now and then, that not everyone else would be driving.
Seemed like a fair enough reason to me? Same for anyone that can afford a pricey rifle and wants one. It's between them and the rifle builder, doesn't appear to be any of my bidness? Nor does it cause me any envy, either.
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
Yes,but did the good doctor own him a 82 trick M70?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,946 Likes: 25
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,946 Likes: 25 |
There are plenty of Doc's who do, and, as per your request, we named quite a few guides and PH's as well. There are also ranchers and farmers and lawyers. It's their money to spend as they see fit.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,216 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,216 Likes: 26 |
Bauer,
Do you actually think that you're going to talk potential Legend customers out of ordering one?
Or do you just like to reread your own rants?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
Some people simply don't understand the vaulue of time. What a Legend owner doing is trading his money for the time of highly skilled craftsmen. Instead of the rifle owner having to dink around with zeroing a scope, working up loads, and making sure the rifle functions flawlessly with his ammo, all that has already been done for him.
Many professionals spare time is very scarce, and if you put a dollar amount on it, would be easily over $1000 a day, I'd say it commands a premium, because it is so scarce. So the savings of not having to spend his precious free time dinking with a rifle, and having confidence that during a potentially very expensive hunt the rifle will be flawless is well worth the money.
I've yet to have a factory rifle that was anywhere near mechanical perfection. Yes, quite accurate and reasonably reliable, but not perfect, and alot of my time going into setting the rifle up. If I didn't enjoy dinking with rifles and spending time at the range, there is no question I'd in the waiting line for a legend.
It's hardly unreasonable for a top quality item to be priced 10 times that of a mass produced item. If anything I'd say given the time put into assebling a legend, they are underpriced. Also in a down economy it's telling that they are still running over a year backlog.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
To answer your question JB,NO.I could care less about talking anyone out of buying a legend. It's simply too much fun to watch people on a forum try to justify the purchase of a $14k M70,which you and I both know is over priced.
The guy buying a legend does so as a symbol of economic status.And in most cases it's a counterfeit example of status,such as allen. You aren't going to see a self made millionaire buying one of these.You're going to see a guy who wants to be able to hang out with the rich and fit in buying a legend.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,524 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,524 Likes: 1 |
so be it! but people with economic status keeps me probably you and a lot of other people employed.
gene
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
Value?, Worth?
Pretty subjective terms because everybody has their own relative idea of it. Based on Brians excellent outline of all their machining steps and 12-14 rifles per year in production I'm going to guesstimate that they probably have close to 400+ hrs per rifle in man hours, possibly more. I can only imagine the tooling set up time for each of the operations. Where I live a highly skilled machinist makes over $30 an hr before benefits, employer taxes, SSI, etc. Thats over 12k per rifle just in manpower. Add to that, tooling, CNC equipment, parts, buildings, lights, insurance, phones, etc, etc,
Time is money and so is the value of highly skilled craftsmen.
A very good attorney friend of mine won't bat an eye when he tells you his going rate is $350 an hour. When your backside is in a real jam and you need some expert legal help do you want a $150 an hour wannabe lawyer or a real attorney that thats worth every penny of his fee?
When you want the apex of anything, whether its a custom rifle crafted by highly skilled and experienced hands, or a handmade mahogany runabout boat or the custom built home of your dreams, unless you can do it better yourself, your best bet is to tell them exactly what you want, and unless they have a question for you, or there is a problem, then keep your mouth shut, write the checks and let the experts do their work.
JME You're making the assumption that they actually do all of things they list. One could only imagine how many steps it would take D'arcy to properly sharpen a pencil.Of course you'd be charged in accordance with his expertise.
|
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,978
Posts18,519,917
Members74,020
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
