|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,668 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,668 Likes: 6 |
Bauer, your village beckons.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
It's ok STane,you can keep saving up to buy a legend,I won't think any less of you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,561
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,561 |
Value?, Worth?
Pretty subjective terms because everybody has their own relative idea of it. Based on Brians excellent outline of all their machining steps and 12-14 rifles per year in production I'm going to guesstimate that they probably have close to 400+ hrs per rifle in man hours, possibly more. I can only imagine the tooling set up time for each of the operations. Where I live a highly skilled machinist makes over $30 an hr before benefits, employer taxes, SSI, etc. Thats over 12k per rifle just in manpower. Add to that, tooling, CNC equipment, parts, buildings, lights, insurance, phones, etc, etc,
Time is money and so is the value of highly skilled craftsmen.
A very good attorney friend of mine won't bat an eye when he tells you his going rate is $350 an hour. When your backside is in a real jam and you need some expert legal help do you want a $150 an hour wannabe lawyer or a real attorney that thats worth every penny of his fee?
When you want the apex of anything, whether its a custom rifle crafted by highly skilled and experienced hands, or a handmade mahogany runabout boat or the custom built home of your dreams, unless you can do it better yourself, your best bet is to tell them exactly what you want, and unless they have a question for you, or there is a problem, then keep your mouth shut, write the checks and let the experts do their work.
JME You're making the assumption that they actually do all of things they list. One could only imagine how many steps it would take D'arcy to properly sharpen a pencil.Of course you'd be charged in accordance with his expertise. Bauer,I'd like to ask you something, When you walk into a grocery store, fill your cart with groceries and then go up to the cash register, do you tell them what you are going to pay? and what do you think the store manager is going to tell you after you did? Think about it.
Men ocassionaly stumble over the truth from time to time but, most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.
- Winston Churchill-
NRA Endowment Life Member
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,168
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,168 |
To answer your question JB,NO.I could care less about talking anyone out of buying a legend. It's simply too much fun to watch people on a forum try to justify the purchase of a $14k M70,which you and I both know is over priced.
The guy buying a legend does so as a symbol of economic status.And in most cases it's a counterfeit example of status,such as allen. You aren't going to see a self made millionaire buying one of these.You're going to see a guy who wants to be able to hang out with the rich and fit in buying a legend. Is it worth $14K? To me it is not but then again a lot of people don't believe that a Randall Knife is worth the money they charge when a $30 Buck Knife will do the job just as well yet I have 3 Randalls. Heck I just spent $1300 on a custom ice auger when the most expensive factory auger goes for about $500, is it worth $1300? To 99.9% of the ice fishermen out there it is not but it is to me. Same thing for these rifles. So the question beckons who the hell are you to tell people what something is worth or how they should spend their money? Obviously enough people believe that they are worth $14k that there is a long wait for them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,331
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,331 |
for those of you who don't know D'Arcy, Brian is a great front man for the good-cop-bad-cop routine  I spit my coffee laughing at this. This is definitely true!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
Everything will get you down the road. With some things there is the knowing that you have the very best.
I would never belittle someone who stops at "good enough" but never try to convince me that good enough is the same as the very best cause it is not so. This guy probably summed it up best for me. In my younger years I never thought for a second when I bought a Submariner, Porsche's, custom knives, semi custom rifles and other expensive toys. If D'Arcy's rifle is the best, that's likely all I've would have needed to hear when I was seeking the best of something to buy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 496
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 496 |
This may have been said already but expensive fine guns are like a lot of other fine things. At some point small gains start costing a LOT more. Premium cars and optics being two good examples. Is a 60k Mercedes sedan that much better than a 25k Ford? Well, it is if you can afford it and want the finest.
Bauer, do you feel the same way about all premium goods? Just wondering. It would explain if it's an overall attitude or if you're just picking on Echols.
Last edited by wyattd; 01/06/11.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
Just because something qualifies as a "premium good"doesn't mean the price tag has to be artificially inflated.
The legend M70 is an example of an inflated price being attached to a rifle thats components and quality assembly can readily be had for a fraction of D'arcy's asking price.
In inflating the price of the rifle D'arcy has now catered to a small segment of the wealthy and wannabe wealthy who are ignorant enough to believe that paying $14k some how means that the Legend is above and beyond the quality and performance of other custom M70's using the same components and proper assembly.
All D'arcy has effectively done is lower the demand for his rifle through increasing the price. Increased his profit margin on the 10 or so rifles he actually builds in a year and keep his overhead lower by not needing more then one additional smith. Drop the legend down to 4 grand where it belongs and see what happens.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 296
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 296 |
Drop the legend down to 4 grand where it belongs and see what happens. You argue like a liberal.
gunmaker
------------------
Custom Metalsmith & Stockmaker
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 496
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 496 |
Well you really didn't answer my question. I'll ask specifically.
Do you feel Mercedes cars and Leica optics are over priced too?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 798
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 798 |
All D'arcy has effectively done is lower the demand for his rifle through increasing the price. Increased his profit margin on the 10 or so rifles he actually builds in a year and keep his overhead lower by not needing more then one additional smith. Drop the legend down to 4 grand where it belongs and see what happens. Would you buy one at four thousand dollars? Would you build us one for four thousand? Jim
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
Mercedes cars are largely over priced when you look at their actual durability in comparison to other cars.BMW is worse.
It's nothing less then amazing how the price on glass drops when the latest flavor of the month lens coating arrives.The difference is leica doesn't hose you as bad as a Legend rifle does. I own Leica glass that was bought right.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
All D'arcy has effectively done is lower the demand for his rifle through increasing the price. Increased his profit margin on the 10 or so rifles he actually builds in a year and keep his overhead lower by not needing more then one additional smith. Drop the legend down to 4 grand where it belongs and see what happens. Would you buy one at four thousand dollars? Would you build us one for four thousand? Jim Actually I'd buy a used one for two grand or less.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
As far as fit, finish ride quality and ergonomics, there is no comparison between the Mercedes and domestic sedans, but I don't have to guess to make that assessment.
Anyone who has actually worked on firearms and with machine tools also knows that craftsmanship at the highest level is not merely screwing together parts, and not everyone is capable of let level of craftsmanship. There is a difference between a mechanic and a machinist.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
As far as fit, finish ride quality and ergonomics, there is no comparison between the Mercedes and domestic sedans, but I don't have to guess to make that assessment.
Anyone who has actually worked on firearms and with machine tools also knows that craftsmanship at the highest level is not merely screwing together parts, and not everyone is capable of let level of craftsmanship. There is a difference between a mechanic and a machinist.
Yes,it's always important to have the quality of your seats and dash exceed the durability and quality of your drive train. Of course D'arcy has set the standard of machinists by pricing his rifle at $14k.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
175,000 miles, drivetrain is flawless.
You've made it clear you have no clue of what you speak, but go ahead and keep reinforcing that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 154 |
Flawless after how many replaced parts?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 1 |
Bauer,
So you call my friend a douche, ask questions which, frankly are none of your business then when Brian is gracious enough to answer them you call them liars. Life is too short to live so miserably. There's got to be a D'Arcyism to describe this.
|
|
|
|
|
538 members (222Sako, 24HourCampFireGuy50, 10ring1, 1234, 160user, 1lessdog, 65 invisible),
2,448
guests, and
1,187
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,577
Posts18,532,148
Members74,041
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
