Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Congress woman Gabby Giifords has been shot.

The "literate 5%", or something like that, right?

Haven't read the whole thread, and not gonna.

I would think that in principle at least, the "it's time to shoot the politicians!" chest-thumpers around here are very supportive of this shooting? Not the particulars, perhaps, but in principle?

Internet invective can have consequences. Every person here knows in their heart that this wack-job built up to this, internally, by finding people sayin' chit on the Internet who talked openly about shooting politicians. This is the power of words.

Legally, when we talk about "innocent" victims, it typically refers to whether those people were engaged in a crime at the time of the shooting. Every single one of the people at that gathering MAY have committed a crime in their past, but at the time of the shooting, they were just exercising their right to assemble peacefully. The fact that this kid shot them during this gathering is not justified legally in any way. If any of them had been engaged in a crime at the time of the shooting, this would be an entirely different discussion. For some here, the act of being a politician is a crime against humanity. That is the root of the disagreement. Unfortunately for their argument, there is no law on the books that says it is a crime to engage in politics.

I can't believe I waded through all this crap except what Barak and TRH posted is not crap as usual.

1. I'm happy I'm a Pagan and don't have all that Bible stuff to deal with.

2. It is my greatest dream that medical science will be able some day to come up with a cure for the mental illness that afflicts financiers and politicans.

3. Without the financial and political class anarchy works.

4. It is tragic that anybody is killed or injured at any political rally but it goes with the territory. When one group of people tries to control and exercise power over another group well then it happens.

5. Some of the most insane people this country ever produced, or so King George the Third thought, were:

Sam Adams
John Adams
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Ben Franklin
Patrick Henry
Thomas Paine
Etc.

6. I guess I'm a radical anarcho-capitalist. The lowest form of life is the financial and political class. I find it very hard to shed a tear for whatever happens to them.

� he claims to have a ministry and claims to know the Bible. �

TRH,
I implied no such thing. I implied that everyone in this was equal and that your buddy barak is wrong in saying just because one is in congress and one is a judge that it was not so bad and in a sense ok for them to have been shot. He reasoned they were not so bad because they are extortionists of the tax payers. I pointed out by way of the bible that HE supposedly reads and understands where he was wrong.

Barak never said that. Are you aware that bearing false witness is a sin?

If their kids are going to grow up to be politicians too, it's tough for me to feel too bad for them.

The only thing you got right is that I'm anti-Constitutionalist.

I'm not going to say it was right for this particular congresswoman and judge to be shot; but however right or wrong it was, it was more wrong for the other people and the little girl to be shot.

There was a span of maybe three months or so a few years back when it's only by the grace of God that I didn't set my affairs in order, withdraw a bunch of savings, toss a rifle in the truck, drive to Washington, and pot me as many politicians as I could before they got me. My objective is to suck power away from the State, not to hand it more.

Plumbers and farmers and doctors help people. Politicians hurt people. To me, a politician is a peg or two lower on the scale than an armed robber.

In my world, if somebody commits a crime (initiates force) against you, you're the only one who's qualified to determine what retaliation is justified. The decision should be ultimately yours, if you're the victim.

Anyone who expects politicians to be anything other than gilded scum is a fool.

I don't know whether being a politician is a sin or not. Is it a sin for a fish to swim or a bird to fly? Perhaps politicians are politicians simply because God chose to leave something important out of them when he created them, and it's not to be held against their account at all. After all, I have to believe God doesn't hold retarded people to account for not being smart.
But if it's a crime to take something that belongs to somebody else without his permission, and being a politician implies being paid with taxes, then being a politician is essentially a crime, yes, if not a sin. The only reason it's not popularly called a crime is the popular legitimization of the State's monopoly on the initiation of force.
Of course, the vast majority of politicians in the real world are guilty of far more than just extortion.

The injuries and deaths of the bystanders are more tragic than the injuries and deaths of the politicians. I would have said the same thing if the damage had been caused by an earthquake or a tornado.

As to whether politicians are subhuman or not...it's an interesting question. If they are simply fundamentally incapable of restraining themselves, then they don't bear any moral responsibility for the death and devastation they cause, but they're also pretty undeniably subhuman.
On the other hand, if they're fully human, it means that they've chosen to commit the crimes they've committed, when they could have made different choices instead, and are therefore fully responsible for them.
I'll admit that it'd be awfully difficult for me to love a politician. Much easier to love an armed robber.

I rate my compassion for politicians based on whether they're politicians or not.

Actually, I've already been through that stage and come out the other side. I'm actually further down the road than he is. There was a span of maybe three months or so a few years back when it's only by the grace of God that I didn't set my affairs in order, withdraw a bunch of savings, toss a rifle in the truck, drive to Washington, and pot me as many politicians as I could before they got me.

These are not the ramblings of a different person, but of a sick one. The ramblings of one who believes that one life is more important than another, simply by what they do in life, and that he has the power to judge and stratify them.
Unbelievable.
Seek some psychiatric care fella, before you hurt someone.

Giffords and Roll: how were they paid? Do you know where their salaries came from? One group of people, or its delegates, put them in office over the protests of another group of people, yet the second group of people is still extorted by the State to pay their salaries.

Completely ignoring any and all other offenses they may have committed while in office, that right there qualifies as doing something to harm someone. Extortion is a crime. (When the government does it, it's called taxation rather than extortion, but it's still an initiation of force, therefore a crime.)

TRH,
Read thru all the posts. He said that. He said they were extortionists because people that didn't vote for them are paying their salaries.
That is what got this whole thing started and me so upset. That he is trying to justify the act!

I'm going to cross my fingers and hope you get a very special wee hours in the morning visit from some totally humorless men, who without fanfare, introduce you to a pair of shiny bracelets, and are dragged, kicking and screaming, to some Godforsaken underground hole somewhere. I also hope someone 'forgets' standard protocol, and you are left with only your delusions and a belt for company in the quiet of the night.

There is a line, and you have crossed it.

Show me where Barak said this: "Barak is wrong in saying just because one is in congress and one is a judge that it was not so bad and in a sense ok for them to have been shot."

the three of them are just unbelievable.....when you think they can't get any loonier, they always manage to surprise.