Just heard on the news that Tucson Congress woman "Gabby" Giffords has been shot while at an event in Tucson. Apparently several other people were shot as well. She is alive and at a hospital but nothing else has been said.
I wonder? She's been very active on closing the border. Could it be the cartels?
You can damn well bet the anti-gun people are gonna be on a roll with this.
Paul B.

That sucks...

Sounds bad,..

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/08/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona

"shot in the head" doesn't sound good.

Sycamore

Reports indicate that the shooter was caught almost immediately.

Be interesting to find out who he is.

Just looked on Democratic Underground and people there are blaming the tea party.

Talk about some brain dead sumbitches.

Yes it will.

I'm guessing some latino punk who is out to make a name for himself rather than action by a cartel.

Hope she makes it.

Fox is saying 11 people shot

That's an understatement... the pot was already at full boil.

FYI, CNN is reporting a dozen people shot.

And only one hit her???

Eyewitnesses are saying that the gunman rushed up and shot her point blank in the head.

checked again :
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/08/arizona-congresswoman-reportedly-shot-public-event/

JHC...her assailant will be the headline and cause of so many theorized sub-plots that the simple fact he's a frikken,whacked out kid will be lost on many.

Just reported that she is dead. Damn shame.

She and 6 others killed!

Damn!

Prayers on the way for all those injured.

Can't imagine the blame game to come.

Prayers to the families!

Regardless of Political party this should never happen. She was good and bad, but she was still a person. This is senseless, cowardess and stupid.

Idiots!

She died? Wow! Tragic.

The anti-tea party cook remarks are all over the place from mental midgets leaping to the rather astonishing conclusions that Rush and Palin are to blame.

Everyone prematurely guessing at the identity and motives of the shooter -- based soley on their own warped libtard ideology -- is sickening.

There is apparantly no limit to the utter stupidity and classless invective of our citizenry...

Hence the reason I think there is no return. Too many dumbphucks, but I'll continually kick them till my last breath.


Again, crying shame and this should never happen but you can't stop one retard intent on harm.

cnn replies to the story are full of the blame game posts

My prayers are with the famillies of the victims.

MSNBC is asking all witnessess if a semi auto was used or not.
I can bet that new guns laws are going to be blamed, semi auto's are going to be blamed. Expect new gun laws and changes to take place.

Stupid People need to get their head out of their a$$es and realize shootings and killings do nothing!

RIP Mrs. Giffords and others that time was ended too soon!

Kique

As for those classless people getting exersize jumping to their own conclusion and spouting their ideology, they are a product of anonimity on the internet. Too easy to make statements here on the net than to have to look someone in the eyes and make such foolish statements.
The real sad part about these statements, there are people out there clueless enough to believe what they read here.

Just awfull.

We all will be subject to endless finger pointing and hysterical accusations from the talking idiots in office and media.

God speed to all involved.

Aw geeze.
This is not good for our country.

I heard a child was killed also. I don't understand

Fox is saying the assasin was shot by security guards but is still alive.

what is this f@#$ing world coming too.

A UMC staff member is saying she is alive and in surgery.

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=13807790

Dirt bags, is my guess...never a good thing.

Fox has reported the wound was indeed fatal.

Fox has just reported she is ALIVE.

Check current headline.

Still alive per Fox News.

Still saying she's alive and critical. Hope for the time being the bastard that shot her is too. Can you use gasoline on a waterboard?

This FOX headline still up,though.Regardless, of course I hope I'm wrong.


URGENT: Democrat Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Ariz. Fatally Shot

I am watching Tucson ABC affiliate Channel 9 on the shootings. According to them, there is no official report of any fatalities. There is also a report of a news conference at University Medical Center at 1:30. The station also just reported that according to ABC News, Congresswoman Giffords is still alive in critical condition.

TT

Giffords was pretty conservative in her views. She was pro Second Amendment, Pro border security and pro life. She just introduced a bill this week requiring Congress to take a pay cut.

She is married to CPT Mark Kelly, a Navy pilot, a Desert Storm veteran and an astronaut. Kelly was in the queue to pilot the next shuttle mission.

Iphones are great when you are out and about.

PIO of UMC saying that she was shot in the head. Didn't say that she was dead. CNN

UMC staff lady on CNN still saying she is alive. Comfirmed 1 child was also shot.

PIO UMC: She's still in surgery. Others injured in surgery.

She had a D rating from both NRA and GOA, not sure how pro 2nd Amendment she was, although she supported doing away with the D.C. ban.

She voted for Obamacare, Repealing Don't ask, Don't tell and the Dream Act.

So she was really all over the map and only moderate on a few issues.

Also she has a 100% grade from NARAL. She is big time Pro Choice, NOT Pro Life.

Dang shame. We need more like her.

I hope the perpetrator succumbs to any injuries he received.

Hospital rep on TV now. Fox News

Who cares about her freaking politics right now...for the love of God! 12-13 people were shot. Politics doesn't matter, IMHO, human life does.
Kids, Fed. Judge, Congresswoman, civilians...what has it come to???

Reports said he 'shouted something'...

Lemme guess: Allah Akbar...

This whole thing is terrible.. You can bet the libbies will be calling for tons more 'gun control', if not out an out Marshall Law..

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Gabby_Giffords.htm

Damn shame. It'll be interesting to see who the punk was.

It is a damn shame, I don't care what her politics are. She is also a wife and mother.

Prayers for all the victims & their families.

Yes it will, bet they keep that underwraps as long as they can, if the old boy is "not" white.

EXACTLY MY POINT! She is a human and politics are just bullschitt right about now! Say your prayers!

Get a grip. How many people will this chick have killed by being a Pro Abortion nut and voting for Obamacare which will kill people.

The Truth should always matter.

How many troops have died in Afghanistan in the past couple months because of this Administration and these [bleep] Democrats? I care far more about them.

She is alive. One of her aides was killed. Twelve to fifteen people shot, is the latest word. The earliest reports are of a twenty-something Latino being the shooter. I have no confirmation on the latter-it is just tentative.

My Sister and BIL live less than 2 miles from there. Prayers sent to all!

She had a pretty tough stance on illegals and even called for the National Guard to help out down there. If there is a link to this shooting, this might be a wake up call for this Country.

Fox reports that a bystander returned fire.

wow!

They just reported that she is responding to commands.

If she pulls through she has isaac to thank for it.

OMG.....you're incorrigible!! TFF too!

Exactly what I thought...could not even respond to it. WOW!

Reports are tentative on the Latino shooter. I have no idea of their accuracy. Lots of libnuts going crazed on the 'net.

ABC saying the shooter is a Caucasian in his twenty's.

Don't worry Sycamore, the shooter will turn out to be an Illegal Alien and you leftists can cry that it was a senseless death that could have been averted if we didn't have guns, not because we've got 14 million illegals running around killing people every day.

Death and taxes have nothing on certainty compared to your predictions.

Vet

Sounds like a Tea Party guy, for sure.

Just heard that also.

That could pan out well.

Some deaths are more certain,quicker and unexpected than others,too!

Now saying it was a Afghanistan vet.

I personally think they are running in circles and need to slow down and FIND OUT.

Ever consider that POLITICS may have been the motivation? Unfortunately nothing that has happened can be undone now.

i just hope it (the shooter) wasn't someone protesting that she wasn't enforcing Border Security in an effective manner.

Federal Judge killed

Fox: Federal judge John Roll killed in shooting.

Also a Federal Judge killed in the shooting.

Exactly, trying pretend politics aren't involved in a guaranteed politically motivated killing is beyond naive.

This wasn't a random act of violence.

She was killed because she was a politician. All that's unknown is what political position the shooter was pissed off by.

what a mess.
prayers for the victims and families.

Shooter had a white sounding name.
Jarrod something was the name FOX is putting out.

Jarrod Laffer/laffner something of the sort is the name going around on FOx 10 News

He had been under Marshalls protection for death threats a year or so ago for certifying a lawsuit against a Rancher by Illegal Aliens.

22 Year old white male according to Fox

Anyone heard from Crossfire?

Knew a guy named Bob Smith - from Puerto Rico. What will interest me is if the guy is allowed to live long enough to give a statement.

I'm not going to say ANYTHING about this, until things settle down a bit,....and there are some clear denominators.

At this time this is all conjectural "Talking Head" chatter,...........

GTC

Scanned through the thread and have a couple of comments. I bet the shooter is a left wing loon or a hispanic, or both.

The other thing I have seen no mention of is the draconic gun control laws they are going to shove down our throats, because of this shooting.

You know "Never let a good crisis go to waste"....

Was shooter shot?

Obama has been salivating for his own McVeigh....

UMC DR. says child died.

UMC chief Surgeon saying 1 or 10 died at UMC and was a child. 5 in critical care and 5 in Surgery. Giffords has came out of surgery and He is expecting a recovery. She was shot thru the brain.

Some of the better news of terrible event.

A democrat who supported stronger border security and the 2nd amendment. Too bad there aren't more like her.

LINK to Fox story

Here's our very OWN

Talking [bleep] Head,.....

not saying anything,.....

noise and chatter more then adequate......and clearly a new form of masturbation.

GTC

This is terrible but I'll say this, when our politicians repeatedly show themselves to not only be unresponsive but downright hostile to the will of the people, this is the kind of thing that will happen. There are lots and lots of crazy people out there and politics will make them even crazier.

What will of the people was Giffords hostile towards as it related to this specific shooter POS?

Text from a You Tube video discusses Conscience dreaming. A 22 year old nut job, period.

Tend to agree with Cossatotjoe_redux, sad but probably very true.

radio in Arizona reporting 10 at the hospital, 5 in critical condition, including Giffords, Giffords was "shot through and through" the brain, is in critical condition, and the surgeon says the next 24 hours will tell the tale.

Also, one child and one federal judge are stated to have died.

Sycamore

Scott....right the [bleep] on with that summation!

It would appear that she was AGAINST Arizona SB 1070.

I'm just speaking in general. People are pissed. In my county, the last election wiped out all the encumbants and put Republicans in offices THAT HAD NEVER, in the 175 year history of the county been held by Republicans. When people are pissed, the crazies do stuff like this. Expect more of it as things get worse.

[Updated at 4:07 p.m. ET] Rep. Gabriella Gifford is in critical condition and a young child has died after a shooting at a political meeting at an Arizona grocery store, a hospital spokesman said Saturday.

Gifford, who was hosting the event, is under anesthesia after undergoing surgery for a single gunshot wound to the head, said Dr. Peter Rhee, Trauma Director at the University Medical Center in Tucson.

"The Congresswoman is not deceased. She is in critical condition," Rhee said in a press conference. "I am very optimistic about recovery."

You look like a pretty good verifier of your own thesis there, Buck,.....

Another talking head,......all [bleep] ego and noise,.....and not a goddam lick of sense.

GTC

Right, you're the one always raising hell about one thing or another and barely speaking English to boot.

I'm saying nothing more controversial than that there are lot of pissed off people out there right now and some of them are crazy.

I understand your pitch but was Giffords the first person shot? Was she even the intended primary target?

And, a 22 year old psycho is hardly the political victim and he certainly is not a credible spokesperson or arbiter for the will of the people being downtrodden by politicians.

Foxbat,

I don't presume you are a moron, just because you have posted some dumb things today. They were so dumb even I won't bother refuting them.

Giffords is probably the most moderate of the Democrat Congressman in Arizona. If she is replaced, it WILL be by someone more liberal. She is the wife of an active duty service member. She is moderate for her District.

I NEVER thought I'd see the day when a Democratic Tucson congressman stuck up for the Second Amendment.

Sycamore

I didn't say he was. He is crazy, obviously, but the overall mood of the country is extremely pissed right now. When the mood is like that, crazy people get crazier.

True, it may have been the judge....

If you watch the purported Youtube made by the shooter, it is mainly aimed at Government control and repeatedly refers to controlling ones own currency and using gold instead of U.S. currency.

IF this is really his, it is going to be spun right at the Tea Party by the left.

http://shortformblog.com/culture/jared-loughner-youtube-videos/

WOW I was on facebook and "Texans for Arizona's New Immigration Law" posted a youtube clip the nut job posted. He has issues and is a nutbag!
Get a Rope!

Oh yeah, get ready for it. It will be open season on the Tea Party.

They name the shooter on Drudge,..as Jared Laughner.

This is supposedly his Youtube page, don't know if it's legit. Bunch of rambling.....

[b][color:#3333FF]Ramblings[/color][/b]

Fox News currently saying his "favorite books" Mein Kompf" -Hitler; "Communist Manifesto".
Last post on "MySpace" was "Goodbye friends".

Sounds like a nut job for sure.

He was upset about our currency not being backed by gold, and the "illiteracy of the people in district 8".

I read that he was on Hawkeye's twitter account.

And all I pointed out initially was that the poster claiming she was conservative and pro life and pro gun was wrong according to her actual votes on the issues.

Being the wife of an active duty serviceman didn't stop her from voting to put queers in the military.

People are trying to make her a martyr that was against illegals and pro gun. Both are not truthful, she voted for the damn Dream Act. She was all over the map.

If she was pro gun how did she get "D" ratings from both the GOA and NRA?

He obviously crazy as a loon, but the reality is, this opportunity will not be wasted by the left.

It's pretty sad when they report that she is DEAD and then the surgeon gets up and says that she is alive, has one gunshot wound to the head and he is "optimistic" of her recovery. The Doc actually looked like he believed what he was saying so what a stretch that these jokers said she was dead and family had to hear that when, in fact, it wasn't true!!!

Oh good, the TSA is helping in the investigation....

Unfortunately but predictably, this will be spun far beyond what it likely is, the random act of a deranged individual. Whether he is a right wing nut job or a left wing nut job, or whatever, his mental condition is the key factor, not his politics. The content of somebody's delusional system can be anything, political or otherwise. Think about John Hinkley's obsession with Jodie Foster.

Prayers for the victims and their loved ones.

Paul

Honestly, I don't know why anyone is shocked. Do you not remember how mad people were at those townhall meetings for healthcare reform? I suspect that at some of those things, but for security goons, some of those congressmen would have been beaten up by a mob at the very least, people were so mad.

But this is just terrible all the way around for lots and lots of different reasons.

AP has the 22 year old gunman identified as Jared Laughner.

Fox News reported, also, that someone in the audience fired on the suspect.

She seems like a decent person and an honest politician. This is a terrible thing on many levels, as she was doing what a good representative should be...meeting the people and listening to them.

On another level, this will only serve to further shrink our rights and give fodder to those who are hell-bent on controlling society, all the while rationalizing it by using incidents like this as prime examples of why they are right, and we need to be guided and controlled.

My thoughts are with the good lady, and I hope for the day we hear of her recovery. We also need to remember the fate of the injured and those who passed today.

....In Arizona,....WTH else would you expect ?

Locally this is no clearer then it is Nationally,....the cracks about whether "Gabby" supported 1070 or not are both RUDE, Misdirected, and intrusive,....CHEAP SHOTS !.....at a time when we should ALL be praying for her recovery.

GTC

Yep, that's his name. You should check out his youtube page and his facebook page. The boy is more than half a bubble off of plumb.

www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

Probably wouldn't even make the top 5 for Kook of the Year on here.

Never have Heller and McDonald been more important.

The craziness this lunacy will trigger will be staggering.

Live updates from Giffords press conference

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Live updates from Giffords press conference

Becky Pallack/Arizona Daily Star Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Saturday, January 8, 2011 1:37 pm | Comments

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University Medical Center is hosting a press conference for the official word on the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords and several of her supporters this morning.

Trauma surgeon Peter Rhee called the situation a catastrophe. He said UMC received 10 patients and one child who is dead. Five are in critical condition and five are in surgery, he said.

The congresswoman is in critical condition. Neurosurgeons have finished operating on her after she was shot through the head one time. Rhee is optimistic about her condition because she was able to follow commands.

Giffords will go into the intensive care unit.

Rhee did not release information about any of the other patients.

Mayor Bob Walkup called it a "grave tragedy" for Tucson, Arizona and the nation. He asked people to pray. He said those who died won't be forgotten.

The Tucson Police Department is supporting the Pima County Sheriff's Department investigation, Walkup said.

Walkup spoke to Giffords' father and told him his family has Tucson's prayers, he said. Giffords' father was overcome with emotion, said Walkup, tearfully.

TPD Chief Roberto Villase�or said TPD has secured the offices and residences of Giffords and other federal officials as a precaution, although there was no information of a threat.

University of Arizona president Robert Shelton said he sends his thoughts and prayers to the families. He acknowledged the good work of law enforcement and medical professionals.

Just looked at the youtube stuff,....sounds very disjointed,...clinically schizo kinda stuff.

He owns nunchucks also.

Sounded a little like Hawkeye or similar

That dude is wacked out of his skull.

Brian.

It would appear so.

If he has truly killed a child a rope is too good for him. Only truly sadistic and or insane folks kill children. They will spin this politically for sure but the bottom line will always be this person is a mental case...

Brain Damage from Summer Temperatures / Sun is not uncommon here,....

I'm glad he didn't start in on "International Bankers"

GTC

That sir is for sure and for certain...

One doesn't need to know anything about the shooter know he's a nut job, other than his actions today, it needs no reinforcement.

No doubt...

What he did is proof enough ain't it?

Watching his videos are proof that he suffers from severe Schizophrenia. Dude makes John Hinkley look normal in comparison.

Brian.

+1 the proof is in the pudding. Prayers sent to the victims and families.

the suspect appears to be in custody.

hopefully he'll be better protected by the Custodians than the Kennedy Assasin was.

Trying to get the latest "update" puts the "program" into an endless loop,....

this is the Headline,....that won't download it's "Update"

U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords's outlook is "optimistic," but 5 die, including a judge and a child. � Obama sends FBI director

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

So,....when you "Open" that it doesn't do a little dance, and go back to previous pages ?

That's DAMN sure what it does here,....on Qwest DSL,.....

GTC

From his own page per mike7.62...dude's favorite books. Doesn't sound very conservative or right-wing to me. More like a college hanger-on whackjob nutcase.

Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

It ain't qwest - mine does it too.

Might be an old page or something.

Either way for a young kid to do this - well it's screwed up. Sad day. Prayers for the family's

Spot

Palins website had a gunsite on Giffords district...that ain't gonna go over good.

http://www.talksy.com/83221/the-pal...gabrielle-gifford-s-district-is-down-now

Odds are, and just saying, that at least some of the shooting victimes weren't hit by the nutcase, but by security and possibly civilians in the crowd.

Not that it minimizes anything, and definitely not the gravity of Rep. Giffords' condition nor the loss of life, but it certainly could compound and add complexity to the situation.

already talking gun control on fox

This is already about the bad right wingers , tea party and Palin. No real info but lots of bs . Yes it will be about gun control as well.

How many people think that some sick progressives in district 8 are toasting to the death of a Bush appointed judge?

A seriously mentally ill man shot some people.

Whatever "motive" he may have had came from the other side of the rabbit hole.

He's just a nut. That's all there is to say about it.

I hope none of the dead or wounded were hit by a citizen returning fire.
That would add a lot of problems.

Now FOX is saying they have no records of the guy being a veteran- go figure that rumor would be leak immediately without confirmation.

And a politician and a judge too--don't forget them.

Photos of alleged shooter
http://gallery.pictopia.com/azstar/gallery/102269/photo/8842226/?o=12

http://twitpic.com/3o8ajp/full

===========

Yes sir!

I doubt the guy is in ANY way connected to any right wing, tea party or Military organization.

The video on Youtube of him burning a US flag is pretty much a dead giveaway.

The reading material he lists is also a clue.

I'm betting this guy is pretty much a lone nut-job.

From FoxNews off the punks web-site. This sounds a whole lot like a couple folks here.

edited - go find it if you like but it's scary

Saw on TV that there is no evidence confirming he was a veteran.

CBS evening news reporting 19 shot instead of 10

Go join Democratic Underground and you can participate in the discussions that say he sounds like *everybody* on here.

The difference between you and them is only a matter of degree.

Yeah, that was my first thought???

Eyewitness (an MD) account: Giffords was shot from about 2 feet away. Still, she was sitting up and was responsive. The witness describes Loughner as about 6 feet tall, 150 pounds. Witness denies that anyone returned fire. One of Gifford's aides tackled the shooter, several of them separated him from his firearm and held him down, while a female bystander removed the magazine from the weapon. Hope she cleared the chamber as well.

He certainly doesn't have the look of your typical pro gun person.

My buddy just called me, his buddy's buddy in LE in AZ said the shooter used a Glock 45 with a 30 round clip.
Gifford was hit in the temple and the the bullet exited her forhead. Man, she was lucky!

JD338

A 30 round clip on a Glock? I've never heard of such a thing.

Brian.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MAG258-36.html

Well that's 'cause you're from Kali where they are illegal.

Here is a twenty five rounder for a .45 cal.

http://www.thegunsource.com/item/43135_Scherer_High_Capacity_Magazine_SCHERER_MAG_GLOCK_45ACP_E.aspx

Palin listed Giffords' seat as one of the top "targets" in the midterm elections because of the lawmakers' support for the health care law.

"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said in an interview with msnbc.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Msnbc makes Sarah Palin sound like a killer..Shocker huh -this came from my yahoo homepage.

My prayers go out to all those involved and their family's. This isn't the way to go about making changes, but like so many others I'm wondering what the after effects of this is going to be...

A federal judge is supposed to make a ruling on California's AB962 on the 18th...

Hope that judge isn't going to take this creeps action and use it against us.



Phil

twitter here

Comments from someone who knew him: Pothead, reclusive, obsessed with the 2012 prophecy, very liberal, very left wing, suffered a severe bout of alcohol poisoning.

Interesting. Thank ya kindly.

Brian.

I think all sides need to tone down the rhetoric that just feeds these wackos. I understand that the shooter�s favorite book is Mein Kampf and that he exhibited paranoid tendencies on a web site..

In any event, the possibility of additional gun restriction is looming - perhaps in the form of capacity limits, semi-auto limits, competency (and psychological) tests for purchasers), restrictions on CCW, etc. I certainly hope there are no serious calls for such, but they are possible.

Interesting. She was also known for liberal leanings also - better health care, higher veterans beneifts, improved Medicare.

LE is having a news conference in about 8 minutes...

This person seems to be just like the Fort Hood shooter.
Except he is not Muslim.

More like the VT shooter,I think. One isolated incident committed by some delusional paranoid or schizophrenic who has been a walking incendiary device since the Dems started moving back to center.

sheriff stuck it to the media outlets.

you know, through the years i have seen posts by a lot of idiots on this forum, but you sir can go straight to hell. With my apologies to the administrator for that remark.
There were a lot of people killed today, a lot of people wounded in MY state. Giffords is a democrat, i am a conservative republican, so WHAT!
This stuff is not suppose to happen, particularly in my state.
Giffords was and is a pretty nice woman that often has views different than mine.
That does NOT mean these things are to happen.

dickweasel

I also am praying for Rep. Gilford's recovery. It makes no difference which letter follows her name (D or R), she is a victim. As for the alleged shooter, if it is who has been reported, he would appear to be mentally ill, based on his ramblings on You Tube, I would say he is neither left wing or right wing. Schizophrenia doesn't have political leanings. Everyone is a threat to a paranoid personality.

IF that's true, the mainstream media will cover it up like an outbreak of VD among the deacons. Their mantra will be -- as we're already seeing -- almost entirely anti-gun.

Seriously doubting that all the rounds that hit folks came from the nutjob's pistol, as one of the staffers said he was tackled VERY quickly, and one of the tacklers was the next guy in line to speak with the Congresswoman.

This is not looking like an easy ride,....

Best advice is to ignore FOOLS, and their beaking off, it has nothing to do with our own local situation.

I'd like to thank those who chased down the "Inside Skinny", and in this case Mike762 for these links. Best they be got back up......

Link: www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

WATCH these, before they are taken down, would be my best advice.

Az. did NOT need , or want this,.....and I'd encourage all to remember that.

Eyewitness (an emergency room doc) I heard interviewed on Fox refuted any notion of a second shooter. Said the perp was the sole shooter and fired cooly and methodically for what he estimated to be 8 to 10 seconds before being tackled. Entirely plausible.

I have three of them, all made by Glock themselves.

Great RUMOR, but,....GOOD Hunters know how to wait

GTC


Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said Saturday evening that the man linked to the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others might have an accomplice.

"We are not convinced he acted alone," Dupnik said at a news conference.

Dupnik said investigators have reason to believe the 22-year-old suspect whom he would not name came to the scene with someone else. "We have photos," Dupnik said of the gunman's companion.

Nate T. Grey, of the FBI, referred to bringing "those responsible" to justice.

Six people have now died in the attack, said Grey, who is in charge of the FBI office in Phoenix. Five people died at the scene and a 9-year-old girl died at a hospital, said Dupnik.

There was no security at the event, a meet-and-greet outside a Safeway on the northwest side, Grey said.

Two of the people who were wounded have not been identified by authorities, he said.

The surgeon is "cautiously optimistic" that Giffords "may survive," Dupnik said.

Federal Judge John Roll went to mass at Tucson's cathedral, as he did every Saturday, and on his way home decided to stop and say �hi' to Giffords, his friend, Dupnik said.

"He was at the wrong place at the wrong time," Dupnik said.

Dupnik called two people who tackled the gunman "were brave individuals, noting that the semi-automatic pistol still had ammunition when the gunman was taken into sheriff's custody.

He said the gunman was a subject of, "some police interest in the recent past," and he has made death threats in the past, but not toward Giffords. There was no reason to worry about the Giffords event in advance, he said. The attack started at 10:10 a.m. amid a crowd of about two dozen people.

The gunman might have planned to shoot himself, Dupnik told reporters.

Don't bother with them. Only the ones made by Glock are reliable.

through the years it has been very easy and not considered worthy of comment to approach elected officials.
as a very young boy when barry goldwater was first running for office, i sat on his lap with him on his horse in prescott.
When mccain first ran for office, he was hanging around at the square in prescott.
I would have NOT thought it possible for someone to do this in this state. Which i guess proves i am an old man and not in touch with the times.
Heck, you could write or call congressmen/women in this state and they would respond to you.

for that matter, my wife seems to remember rightly or wrongly that giffords was at a border rally this summer along the border.

by the way greg, this morning was up on a 4x4 road off the gila river. 80year in a jeep with his 50something daughter had a flat tire. We stopped to change it for him.
Would you believe upon us leaving this rather good looking woman grabbed by hand to shake it,then kissed my hand?
Must be the facial fur i sport.

Random murder of bystanders. Yeah, he shot a judge and congressman. That makes him a political assassin at best. Then shooting those just gathered around? That makes him a cowardly, bent, twisted, perverted sonofabitch on nobody's side but his own. Rick, forgive me but there's no synonym. Doesn't matter how decrepid his past, how unfulfilling his childhood, or how persecuted he may have felt. I'll be first in line to throw the switch, drop the hammer or push the syringe. But he'll have an attorney, exposure and sympathy from some. Most likely trial delays and appeals. Just hope he dies as swiftly as McVeigh after Oklahoma. Kill him quickly, extreme prejudice.

a 30 rd. glock 45 mag?

i don't think so

Amen.

e.g.
There was no security at the event, a meet-and-greet outside a Safeway on the northwest side, Grey said.

There was a Tuscon Daily Star web news blurb up,....( I read it aloud to Vanimrod ) all full of quotes from one of her "Congressional Aides",.....HIS "Eyewitness account",.....he used the phrase "caught in the crossfire",....while describing how he passed up the opportunity to stop the thing before it started.

....It's been "Taken Down",....and will require some searching,....

GTC

8-10 seconds, yeah, I can easily see that.

[bleep]' nutcase.

33 round 9mm.

i know they make the 33 rd 9mm.

some one state he used a glock 45. and i don't believe they make a 30 rounder for that.

She sounds like one of my students, I probably kissed HER hand sometime recent,.....and she was just thinking that it was the right thing to do.

you gracious and well behaved old fart.

GTC

You may be right. I don't know.

That video of him in the wizard robe and HappyFace burning the American flag in the desert was sure weird.

Betcha he's been under psychiatric care, probably voiced some crazy ideas that the counsellor was praying he never acted-out.

Factory Glock 33-round 9mm 3rd Generation New Unmarked magazines. Fits Glock 17, 18, 19, 26, and 34. also fits Kel-tec rifles which use the Glock

Looks like someone beat me to it, but there is the facts.

For those ESPOUSING the "Lone Gunman" theory, I went and searched,.....this little "HERO's" report,.....

His 15 seconds of fame might have lain in STOPPING this , before it started,

I encourage you to read, and RE-READ his little tale ....



Link: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/76bc3c24-1b79-11e0-b748-001cc4c002e0.html

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Witness: Gunman 'was going for the congresswoman'

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Witness: Gunman 'was going for the congresswoman'

By Patrick Finley Arizona Daily Star Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Saturday, January 8, 2011 3:45 pm | Comments

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The gunman, wearing a beanie and baggy clothes, approached Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords� meet-and-greet Saturday wanting to speak with her immediately, a witness says.

Alex Villec, a 19-year-old volunteer, organized the line of constituents outside the Safeway where a young man approached the line.

He said, �Can I talk to the congresswoman?�, or something to that effect, Villec said. He told the man to stand at the back of a line to wait for about 20 minutes.

�He went to the back of the line,� Villec said, �and didn�t seem too interested in what I had to say.�

Minutes later, the man left the back of the line and walked toward Giffords, who was with 20 to 25 constituents, employees and volunteers.

�He was intent,� Villec said. �He was intent when he came back � a pretty stone cold glance and glare.�

�I didn�t see his gun, but it was clear who he was going for. He was going for the congresswoman,� Villec said.

�A few staff members were caught in the crossfire �. His goal was the congresswoman.�

The shooter walked past Villec and to his left, past tables and toward Giffords. He raised his hand. Villec heard gunshots before ducking behind a pillar and later running across the Safeway parking lot to a bank for safety.

�It was bedlam,� he said. �People were getting down on the ground. They were screaming. I just did what I could to keep myself protected.�

Villec worked on Giffords� 2008 campaign and interned twice in the past year for her, both in Tucson and in Washington, D.C. The Catalina Foothills High School graduate volunteered Saturday in part to see old friends. He was set to return to Georgetown University on Sunday.

The weapon �sounded like a handgun.� He did not hear the shooter speak while firing; from behind a pillar, Villec heard someone cry, �Get down.� Villec did not see two men tackle the gunman, though spoke with one of the men afterward. That tackler, he said, was next in line to greet Giffords.

�It�s heroic,� Villec said.� I�m at a loss for words to describe the courage it takes to do a thing like that.�

At 10:19 a.m., Villec texted his mother, Anne Hoff.

�I�m safe and fine,� it read. �There was a shooting outside Safeway. I�m completely O.K.�

Hoff, who drove to the Safeway lot, said she was thankful for the pre-emptive text.

�I don�t know,� she said, �what makes someone lucky.�

Villec, who was still shocked about his close call, knew the gravity of what occurred outside the Safeway early Saturday.

�It�s clear that this is a contentious district. Passions run deep on these issues, so much so that somebody would be compelled to do something like this,� he said. �However, the kind of bickering that happens on a day-to-day basis never reaches physical violence.

�This is unprecedented � and it�s going to send shockwaves throughout the country.�

I just put up a link for a twenty-five round .45 magazine awhile ago. I can't say about thirty, but I found the 25 rounder with only a quick search.

Given that the "Event as it unfolds" is kinda' important to a FEW,.....COULD SOMEONE please GO START A [bleep]' "Glock Magazine Capacity" thread ?

GTC

i dont know about glock magazine capacities, but the sheriff did say durring the news conference that the shooter was using an "extended capacity magazine"

Since it seems a certainty the shooter's ramblings will be taken offline, here's the text, given on a plain back background, the 1:10 minute video jumps between six different screens of text...

Screen 1: Hello, my name is... <gives his name>

Screen 2: This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming; the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you dont dream - sadly.

Screen 3: Firstly, the current government officials are in power for their currency, but I'm informing you for your new currency! If you're treasurer of a new money system, then you're responsible for the distribution of a new currency. We know now - the treasurer for a new money system is the distributor of the new currency. As a result, the people approve a new money system which is promising new information thats accurate, and we truly believe in a new currency. Above all you have your new currency, listener?

Screen 4: Secondly my hope is for you to be literate! If you're literate in English grammar, then you comprehend English grammar. The majority of people who reside in District-8, are illiterate - hilarious. I don't control your English grammar structure, but you control your English grammar structure.

Screen 5: Thirdly, I know who's listening: Government Officials and the People. Nearly all the People, who don't know this accurate information of a new currency, aren't aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I had my Civil Rights, then this message wouldn't have happen.

Screen 6: In conclusion, my ambition - is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I'm conscience dreaming! Thank you!


FYI

Birdwatcher

it's not really important.

it's just another schitty day in america.

it's amazing how a few schitt heads in america make all of as look bad to the rest of the world.

godspeed to the victims of this madness

Oughta be your answer for everything, your signature line, and your [bleep]' motto...

No interest in owning a Glock or a high cap magazine. I had just never heard of such a large mag for a Glock.

Apologies for getting the thread off subject.

Brian.

me too

Whack job gets gun, shoots notable people. Unfortunately, the human tragedy will be lost in the shuffle. This is gonna be trouble. We all know where the "Brady" bill came from.

I'm just putting this stuff up in raw form,.....cause there are some SERIOUS problems recording it's co-ords at all, the "program" just keeps jumping from story to story,...and NO, there's nothing wrong with this devil-box, or my server.....

Here:



Link: http://azstarnet.com/article_91db5db4-1b74-11e0-ba23-001cc4c002e0.html

Here:

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Man linked to Giffords shooting rampage called 'very disturbed'

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Man linked to Giffords shooting rampage called 'very disturbed'

By Tim Steller, Arizona Daily Star Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Saturday, January 8, 2011 3:11 pm | Comments

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buy this photo Mamta Popat/Arizona Daily Star Jared Loughner is the man identified by the Associated Press as the suspect in the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and slayings of U.S. District Judge John Roll and 5 others this morning in Tucson. Law enforcement is at house on Soledad Avenue that matches the address of the Jared Loughner who registered as a volunteer at the 2010 Tucson Festival of Books, where this photo was taken.
Related Video

'Introduction: Jared Loughner'
'Introduction: Jared Loughner'

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* Related: What was in his head? YouTube reveals grievances on currencies, grammar, religion, Constitution

The man linked to the shooting today of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others is 22-year-old Jared Lee Loughner, the Associated Press reported.

Saturday afternoon, police surrounded a house at 7700 N. Soledad Ave., which is the address listed by a man with the same name on a variety of online accounts and in the volunteer registry for the 2010 Tucson Festival of Books. The home is near West Magee Road and North Thornydale Road on the northwest side, about five miles from the shooting scene.

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik would not confirm Loughner is the suspected shooter. He said the person arrested for the shooting is uninjured and uncooperative.

The suspected shooter has made death threats before and been contacted by law-enforcement officers, but the threats weren't against Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Dupnik said. The suspect is unstable, Dupnik said, but the sheriff would not say he is "insane."

A former classmate of Loughner at Pima Community College said he was "obviously very disturbed."

"He disrupted class frequently with nonsensical outbursts," said Lynda Sorenson, who took a math class with Loughner last summer at Pima Community College's Northwest campus.

Sorenson doesn't recall if he ever made any threats or uttered political statements but he was very disruptive, she said. He was asked to leave the pre-algebra class several times and eventually was barred from class, said Sorenson, a Tucson resident.

Another Pima classmate, Lydian Ali, said Loughner would frequently laugh aloud to himself during the advanced-poetry class they attended. Only about 16 people were in the class, so Loughner's behavior stood out, Ali said.

"It almost seemed like he was on his own planet, because his comments would have nothing to do with what we were talking about," Ali said.

MySpace, YouTube and Facebook accounts maintained by Loughner suggest he has spent most of his life on the northwest side: His profile says he attended Thornydale Elementary, Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View High School

The online accounts also contain bizarre discussions of a new currency and literacy, as well as threatening and despairing messages.

"WOW! I'm glad i didn't kill myself. I'll see you on National T.v.! This is foreshadow .... why doesn't anyone talk to me?.." he posted on MySpace Dec. 14.

On Dec. 13, he wrote: "I don't feel good: I'm ready to kill a police officer! I can say it."

In a posting on YouTube, Loughner wrote repeatedly about a new currency.

"I'm thinking of creating a new currency," he wrote. "Therefore, I'm thinking of a design for my new coins size, shape, color, material, and image to start a new money system."

He also wrote repeatedly about literacy. In a written message on YouTube, Loughner said: "The majority of people, who reside in District-8 are illiterate - hilarious. I don't control your English grammar structure, but you control your English grammar structure."

In a message posted on his MySpace account, titled "Goodbye friends," Loughner said: "Dear friends...please don't be mad at me. The literacy rate is below 5%. I haven't talked to one person who is literate." It was unclear when it was posted.

In a MySpace profile, Loughner said "My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college."

He lists among his favorite books "Mein Kampf" and "The Communist Manifesto". But he also includes a broad variety of other titles, including: "Animal Farm," "Brave New World," "To Kill a Mockingbird," and "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".

In another YouTube message, Loughner said: "I know who's listening: Government Officials, and the People. Nearly all the people, who don't know this accurate information of a new currency, aren't aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn't have happen."

"In conclusion, my ambition - is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I'm conscience dreaming! Thank you!"

In a YouTube video dated Dec. 15, titled "Introduction: Jared Loughner" the accused gunman describes himself as a U.S. military recruit who had applied to join the Army. The Army, however, said it rejected Lougher as a recruit in 2008.

In the video, Loughner makes a rambling mention of "MEPS in Phoenix" a reference to the Military Entrance Processing Station in the state capital that all Arizona recruits from every branch of service pass through before leaving for basic training.

"Every United States military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix is receiving one mini bible before the tests," it said. "Jared Loughner is a United States military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix. Therefore, Jared Loughner is receiving one mini bible before the tests.

"I didn't write a belief on my Army application and the recruiter wrote on the application: None."

First Sgt. Brian Homme, who oversees Army recruiting in Tucson, said Loughner applied to enlist in December 2008 and was sent to Phoenix to take a test and physical. But "he was found to be unqualified so he never joined the Army," Homme said.

He declined to say why Loughner was rejected, citing confidentiality laws.

Loughner has had at least two minor run-ins with police, according to on-line court records.

In October 2007, Loughner was cited by the Pima County Sheriff's Department for possession of drug paraphernalia, a charge that was dismissed in November 2007 when he completed a diversion program.

One year later, in October 2008, Loughner was charged with a "local charge" in Marana Municipal Court, that charge was also dismissed following the completion of a diversion program in March 2009.

Court records indicate the Marana case file is due to be purged in December 2013. It's unclear what the exact charge was.

Grant Wiens, 22, attended Mountain View High School with Loughner, although they were not in the same grade.

Wiens also took a class at Pima Community College with Loughner, where they occasionally talked, he said.

"He was a guy in high school who definitely had his opinions on stuff and didn't seem to care what people thought of him," Wiens said. "He did his own thing."

Ryan Miller, 19, was a sophomore at Mountain View when Loughner was a senior.

He said Loughner was seemed like a normal kid.

"I was in shock," he said, describing his reaction to the shooting. "I didn't know what possessed someone our age to do something like this."

Stay tuned to StarNet for updates

This is bad, very bad for our side.

Here is a young white man, obviously deranged, but not a Muslim who shoots a Liberal Democrat Congresswoman with a High cap semi-auto pistol, in gun friendly Arizona. Can't get much worse than that (for us), just hope he isn't an NRA member with a CCW.

This is the Liberal, gunbanners dream scenario, just stand back and watch the MSM go full bore on this and expect more restrictive gun laws.

The only good thing is that this didn't happen in California.

If you're done gloating,

.....PLEASE go back to bragging about your own good fortune and wealth.

GTC

Glock makes a 33 rounder for the 9mm, a 22 rounder for the .40 and a 13 for the .45. Can't say what the aftermarkets are producing, but I can state that many aftermarket mags do not function and very few will drop free of the well when empty. That includes the Korean mags that have been popping up lately. Junk, as far as I'm concerned.

Just a sad friggin' day in America.

A tragedy.

Ditto that.

http://www.glock.com/english/index_magazines.htm

The news has been reporting it was a 9mm. So I take it the 33 plus 2 according to the glock website?

I can see a lawsuit heading Glocks way and the direction of whoever sold him the gun 3 days ago. (CNN reporting gun was bought 3 days ago)

My family headed into town this afternoon and the road was still closed. Guess its reopened now. Either way it didn't seem like a normal day in Tucson. Did notice there was less traffic out. I am just glad my in laws were not there(thank God for old age). It's just odd to think it happened in my state, my city, affected my neighbors and my community. Most never expect it in their town. I was wrong and I am asshamed because I shoulda known better. I never thought of it.
This situation wakes people up. It has for my family. Sad that this world has turned out so bad.

Kique

Not done reading all the posts but that's the best news I've heard yet!

I am not gloating, If you are not concerned about the implications of this event I refer you to Columbine and previous high profile shootings.

You may remember some unpleasantness back in the early 60's that led to some law in 1968 that many here do not like.

Go back to Bragging,...you do it WAY better.

Thanks for the "History lesson", Spankojackoffalus.

I also remember some events SINCE 1968 like Ronald Reagan, after he was the victim of a nearly identical shooting, REPEALED some of the aspects of the GCA of '68.

What ant-gun legislation resulted from Columbine?
The liberal MSM trying to make hay out of a trajedy that had NOTHING to do with the behavior of the average gun owner does not automatically result in ant- gun legislation. It only HIGHLIGHTS the bogus arguments of the Anti gun crowd.

Other than Bill Clinton/ and Rosie O'Donnell trying to sir up schit -NOTHING happened after Columbine. Higher NRA membership and more guns sold. The assult weapons ban still sunsetted a few years later. More CCW states now than ever before. Pretty much only YOUR state's gun laws have steadily gone to hell in a hand basket since then. While you know doubt ,were sailing yachts with your anti-gun freinds.

Most Americans are SMART enough to know their rights should not be sacrificed due to the actions of a nut-job.
In Kalifornia, I am SURE your fellow members of the "Marin County Yacht club" support such bullschit, but here in the Heartland, not so much.

Thanks to the folks in "flyover country" as you call us,we now have a Republican controlled house. They will no doubt send their condolences to the victims BUT will not commit political suicide and hasten more of their membership into early retirement in 2012 by passing any stupid anti-gun legislation over this.

Did anybody notice ABC commie news tonight.

They reported that a reporter asked Gabby's father if she had any more know enemies, he replied,
"The TEA Party".

Damage done.

Of course the Tea Party did this to Gabby.

Ya'll need to chill a bit. Spanokopitas is a good dude, and he's just offering his opinion here.

Brian.

Yup,.....and I can't pull down and post stuff I can READ on my computer, which is strange.

Short takes......

"agents in FBI jackets milling about the location."

""We're getting out of here. We are freaked out,"

""He has kind of a troubled past, I can tell you that," Dupnik said. "(Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, and idiot with connections, and a prick with ears)

and THIS,....perhaps the lowest "BLOW" of all

"During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.

"I don't see the connection," between the fundraisers featuring weapons and Saturday's shooting, said John Ellinwood, Kelly's spokesman. "I don't know this person, we cannot find any records that he was associated with the campaign in any way. I just don't see the connection."

..........We hosted Kelly at OUR range , too.

"Firepower Demonstrations" are Not about "Unseating" anybody, they are an old and revered American tradition.

Sad day indeed, and the Libs will lap this kinda' press up like dogs do with the chit from a scouring calf.

GTC

Oh,...Yah,....

between his bragging and razzing the board in general about his OWN personal good luck, and wealth.

Heads up,....this did NOT go down in California,...and if Arizona wants an opinion from California we'll goddam well ISSUE you one.

That post was ALL about gloating,...[bleep] "Chillin OUT"

GTC

So only Arizonans can talk about something that's national news?

Get off your high horse and go [bleep] yourself dude.

Brian.

now now. lets be reasonable here. Next thing I'm gonna read is you guys kissing and making up and then you guys [bleep] each other. This is not broke back mountain. It's 24hourcampfire. LOL

Sorry guys just had to change the mood a bit. Hope it helped.

Spano says, "The only good thing is that this didn't happen in California."

Brilliant Statesmanship there,...

.... VERY sensitive "National News" attitude,.....it's almost overwhelming in it's clarity, and lack of bias.

GTC

Yah; I'm amazed at the amount of ado about nothing.

The shooter is a bad guy, sure enough, because he shot up a bunch of regular folks and killed a kid.

But Giffords? Roll? It's just a politician and a judge, for Pete's sake. Why all the hoopla? Shouldn't government legislators and adjudicators expect to get shot at when they ignore the will of their subjects? Isn't that what the Second Amendment is about? I know government enforcers certainly expect to get shot at when they trample the will of the people: it's why they hide their identities, carry heavy firepower, wear vests, and ride in armored vehicles. Why should the other two branches of the State be any different?

"Congratulations: the computers say you won the election. So: here is the power to tax away our income. Here's the power to regulate away our livelihoods. Here's the power to throw us in prison for doing harmless things you disapprove of. Here's the power to conscript our children and use them up in pointless foreign wars. Here's the power to send thugs to break down our doors in the middle of the night and murder us in our sleep. Here's the power to make radical foreign terrorists so angry at us that they kill us by the thousands.

"Okay...got all that? Can you carry it? You okay? Great: good luck. See you on C-SPAN.

"Oh--wait. One more thing. Almost forgot. Here's a bullseye to wear on your back in case we decide you're getting a bit uppity in the way you use all those powers."

Sounds fair to me.

I don't think anyone wants a tragedy to happen in their locale. I wouldn't wish such a thing on anyone, anywhere.

Brian.

REPEAT!

""The only good thing is that this didn't happen in California."

...indefensible

You got a point.

This was looking like NORMAL dialogue,....'til you showed up.

Later,

GTC

You're taking him out of context. This is what he said-



Since it happened in fairly conservative Arizona, it's doubtful that a bunch of new gun laws will be passed there. If it happened in California, they'd be going door to door to take folk's handguns.

I don't think Spanokopitas meant anything more than that.

Brian.

One day we will be chatting about some of the folks who used to post here when they finally snap.

You're a fair man.

Point taken,....and I'm really sorry that our angst has attracted 2 of the "Trilogy",......

Cuz' NOTHING we have said up to now is as loony as what's just been posted by the Philosopher General......and it's NOT the sorta' chit I associate with, so I am History from this,....until they are gone.

I can't believe they let those two Corksockers near children, or incarcerated felons.

Hasta Luego

GTC

Reported by Fox early on, but unfortunately, flatly denied by the eyewitness I heard later on. The shooter was apparently tackled and separated from his gun by a couple of men, and his weapon was unloaded by a woman.

My family headed into town this afternoon and the road was still closed. Guess its reopened now. Either way it didn't seem like a normal day in Tucson. Did notice there was less traffic out. I am just glad my in laws were not there(thank God for old age). It's just odd to think it happened in my state, my city, affected my neighbors and my community. Most never expect it in their town. I was wrong and I am asshamed because I shoulda known better. I never thought of it.
This situation wakes people up. It has for my family. Sad that this world has turned out so bad.

i think a lot of us feel that way

anothe post by one of the resident idiot svants.
A man that professes to be a christian spreading the good work with loosers in prison, and can't see what he writes "just another politican and judge"
And because of his dicked up prejiduce doesn't think of a woman with two kids, and a judge with a family that didn't deserve what happened to them because they were just a politician and a judge.
Another graphic example of the idiots on this forum. The fact they were human beings doesnt count in barks world

and another post by one of the other dumphucks on the eastern side of the country.

+1

Ron,...we just need to turn this OVER to these two azzwholes,.....Talk about "painting Targets" on peoples back,.....this [bleep]' "Barak" azzwhole just carved "Drop an A-Bomb Here" into the 24Hour site,...with a [bleep]' DOZER.

Trh will be running around filling it with fluorescent paint.

Double dittos, Mike.

GTC

Here's the thing about people who volunteer in prisons, not that I'm against it. They get a distorted view of inmates. Inmates are on their best behavior in front of these people. Yet these people will talk as experts and think I'm just a hard azz thug as a C/O, not realizing that I spend 8 hours + a day with those same inmates and know far more about them than they ever will.

Damn, this sure brought out the loonies.

This, and other events of the nature, are more damaging to the right of lawful citizens to bear arms than all the rantings of the myriad anti-gun cabals. Let us hope he is not an NRA member with a CCW.

What we have here is a perfect storm: a white rightwing nutcase attacks a liberal Congresswoman using a handgun with a high cap magazine in gun friendly Arizona. This is what the Antis live for. Stand back and brace for recoil.

Best thing we can do is to loudly condemn the shooter as a deranged rightwing nutcase, another Timothy MacVeigh.

This is not going to be pretty.

Hey--it's not as though they involuntarily became a politician and a judge through a random act of God. They both worked very hard at getting to where they were. Lots of deliberate time, effort, money, influence, and corruption to get to the point where they had enough power to piss off enough people that statistically they ran across one who would do something about it.

I'm sure it was very gratifying to them to be part of the ruling-class elite. Well, ruling-class elite sometimes get assassinated. Corruption has a price. They knew--or should have known--what they were getting into. Hopefully they provided for their families accordingly.

On the other hand, the disease of political ambition has been demonstrated to be at least partly genetic. If their kids are going to grow up to be politicians too, it's tough for me to feel too bad for them.

This thread has brought out the worst in everyone.

Bottom line: the guy was a psycho, the incident was a tragedy no matter who was hurt, and the MSM and politicians will undoubtedly and despicably try to exploit the matter for their own benefit. Let's all move on- albeit saddened.

Barak, you are truly f-ucked up. Welcome to my ignore list.

[bleep] me Jesus, you are a complete nut job. Course since you are an autistic SOB, I shouldn't be bothered and I'm not.

Still a shame that train didn't come along the day you laid your head upon the rails to commit suicide. Figures you couldn't even do that.

His day will come

First of all Skippy, get your "facts" straight.

WHAT actual information do you possess that lead you to believe the shooter was "right wing" ???

His Youtube videos showed an AMERICAN FLAG being burned.

He was REJECTED for service by the US Army (never served)

DOES THAT sound like a "right wing" nutcase?

It sounds to ME like some socialist [bleep] from Marin county or Berkley!

Maybe you should get a job as a reporter for CNN- you certainly bring a left wing slant to your 'facts".

Tell me, exactly what right wing republican would call "Mein Kampf," the "Communist Manifesto," "Animal Farm" and "Brave New World." their favorite reads? Those are books about socialism and complete government control.

You're absolutely right. We always--almost always--get to be the good guys, and the COs have to be the bad guys. Occasionally we see or discover something unsavory about a prisoner, but more often our experience of them is all good and no bad. We get that.


Expert what?

Certainly I have never represented myself to be an expert CO: I'm no kind of CO. I couldn't do what you do.

However, it's just as true that because you do what you do and know what you know, you could never do what I do.

We'll both get more productive work done if we each hold off a bit on running the other guy down and concentrate on the work that has been vouchsafed us.

And incidentally, I have no idea whether you're a hardass thug. Some COs are; some are pretty much regular folks; and a very few have such a gift for the job that everybody loves them, from the prisoners to the volunteers to the other COs clear on up to the warden. I've met two such in my twenty-some years of volunteering. As far as I know now, you could be in any of those categories.

Never read Mein Kampf or The Communist Manifesto, but have read Animal Farm and Brave New World. Clearly seemed like warnings of the left (communist) future, to me.

But then I don't think of myself as a left leaning schizophrenic and that might have warped my view if I was.

From what I heard the Judge was passing by on his way to the Safeway and stopped to take a look. Wrong place at the wrong time.

But, then I suppose that's enough reason for Barak to...

................Hey Barack! Those wounded and killed today regardless of your warped analogy, did not deserve this! Whether you agree politically or disagree, human life is human life.

I notice that your user name happens to be the first name of that big spending marxist, socialist, anti-capitalist, anti free market and growth, anti Constitutionalist azz hole who happens to occupy the White House!!

How appropriate!!!

I don't think a pack of starving dogs would approach that bitch if she had a side of beef hanging from her neck.

As another member pointed out to me in a PM, there's an interesting dynamic going on here.

Lots of folks here believe that the State will eventually push decent folks far enough that violence will become the only viable option, and it's one of the reasons many of us have as many guns as we do.

However, that being said, there does seem to be a surprisingly strong knee-jerk reflex around here to squirt instant sympathy for any State figure or entity that can be successfully portrayed by the State's intellectuals as a victim.

I wonder how those two attitudes will play out when the time comes.

If you wish to address me in a respectful manner I will return the favor, otherwise I shall ignore your insolence.

I have seen dead people not look as bad as that nasty thing.

Dink

Its a damn shame no doubt. call me an idealist but I believe those who step up to become politicians/State Representatives do so with the intent to serve the people and their Country.
She sure as heck didnt deserve this.

The question that now comes to mind is how this guy with a known/documented mental case could have bought a firearm.
With California's 10 day wait/DOJ back round check, I doubt this guy would have been able to buy.

Barak's portrayal of the victims being deserving and the shootings being a rational reaction to today's political environment is beyond astounding... That he is allowed to remain here with his uncomprehendable dialog is more astounding.

Kent

I think the politicians and the media are gonna have a hard time dealing the spin on this one actually. Although she has liberal views on some issues, she supported more border security and was one of the stronger 2nd amendment democrats. In a way, she was the kind of democrat, that the democrats love to hate. The irony is that they will use her anyway to try and push their anti gun law agenda. You can't make this stuff up.

Barack,
The shooter was crazier than a chit house rat. His motivation was born out of his sickness, not his political beliefs.

Brian.

Barak's already painting him as a patriot.

Barak

What would you be thinking right now if your wife had been an innocent bystander and had been killed in a similar incident? Would you just say "Oh well, things like that happen in these times"?

True, but politicians are only politicians.


Not quite. The word sounds very similar in Hebrew and Arabic; it means "lightning." Of course, it looks very different, because Hebrew and Arabic have wildly different alphabets. But when the word is transliterated into English from Hebrew, it's traditionally spelled "barak," and when it's transliterated from Arabic, it's traditionally spelled "barack."

Hence the spelling difference.

But of course I've been using this screen name since long before anyone knew who Barack Obama (or Ehud Barak, for that matter) was.

And if you're seriously comparing me politically to Obama, you need to stick around and read a post or two. The only thing you got right is that I'm anti-Constitutionalist. The rest of it is dead wrong.

Careful, careful--your credibility's all you have on the Internet; if you lose that, you're in bad shape. Here's what I actually said about him:

Of course not.

Me reading what you write doesn't do any good if you don't read what I write.

Anytime you wish to compare my credibility to yours here, feel free to post a survey.

I read what you write.

What makes it right for a judge or a congressman to get shot but not your wife? Somebody loves them as much or more than you do your wife.

My wife does not hunger after coercive power over others. She does not claim a monopoly over the initiation of force. She does not commit acts that would be instantly identified as crimes if they came from any source other than government. She does useful things for which she is voluntarily compensated by people who freely choose to hire her.

In short, she is not a politician.

She is morally superior to a politician.

(A tapeworm is morally superior to a politician: it does survive parasitically on its host's essence, the same way a politician does, but at least it's not corrupt.)

I'm not going to say it was right for this particular congresswoman and judge to be shot; but however right or wrong it was, it was more wrong for the other people and the little girl to be shot.

He was addressing you respectfully.

We will all have to wait and see what his background was. I'm sure the MSM will give us an objective look in the coming days. From the limited stuff I've seen posted so far, he looks a lot closer to a left-wing nutcase than any right-winger. Right wingers don't have the Communist Manifesto as one of their favorite books. Mein Kampf either.

When in a deep hole, it is often advisable to quit digging. If not, sooner or later the sides will cave in.

The guy who committed these unspeakable acts today was just a little further down the road, that's all. You just have to hope that when they finally blow you're nowhere near them.

In other words you are saying it is more justifiable to shoot a congress person or a judge than a bystander?

Easy there Seabiscuit.

Might be time to just walk away from the computer and call it a night.

Brian.

That has to be the most vile thing I've ever read here.

I'd have to agree. Outrageous.

That's good advice Brian. I am going to take it also before I say something I'll be sorry for later.

Don't be too sure of that. Fact is if I get a chance to speak of Christ I do. I also make sure there is a bible provided when the inmate asks for it when I'm working the hole. But I don't let them play games, step across the line and the hammer drops, no matter who they are. When you establish reputation you can do that.






I think you do, I used to have the tag GarryC here. We have conversed many times about these matters.

Me too.

It just goes to show you how full of schitt most folks are.





Good Lord, one less politician and judge in the world. I'll be crying for weeks over this.

I predict they won't mention his political motivations and will focus on the gun.

Remember the Uni-Bomber. He was an ecoterrorist. I bet that really po'd the press who hoped it would be a white supremacist, a McVey type.

Quote from the sheriff:

In other words, it's those evil, hate filled bigoted people from Arizona that pushed him over the edge. Sheesh, give me a break. Maybe they're tired of being invaded by illegal occupiers?

From the same AP article:

Yep, that's it. We need to shut our mouths and bow down to Obama's every wish. Then the killings will stop.

The hate and vitriol spewed by the anti-1070 crowd is probably what this dude was fueled by. Again, it will only be by the most violent spinning that he can be characterized as anything but far-left, from what I've seen.

The dude was fueled by his extreme mental illness. Nothing more, nothing less.

Brian.

You real sure you don't want to run with "White and Right Wing" ?

GTC

I really HOPE that folks here will have common sense enough to just clearly file you away as "The Enemy", based on this little verbal/text/oral defecation.

I mean FILE THIS SOMEWHERE folks.

You are a [bleep]' sicko, and have nothing of any particular value , or substance to contribute here,......

I'd just like that to be on record, in these troubled times.
If I were you,...I'd avoid me, and my ilk. We're not "of like mind"

GTC

What I find incredulous is that a Congresswoman would hold a Town Hall meeting in an open air parking lot. True, she should have been able to hold a meeting anywhere she desired and remained safe, but that just isn't the reality in this day of terrorism. We have seen that terror attacks are just as likely to involve mentally ill individuals, such as today's events, or those at Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, or an Omaha high school, as they are radical Islamic terrorists.

I am shocked by the carnage and completely at a loss to understand why the good Congresswoman chose her venue without regard to security. Such meetings are safer when held in meeting halls with controlled entrances where attendees can be screened for weapons. I appreciate that Congresswoman Giffords desired to be close to her constituents, a desire that embodies the highest principles of public service, yet I hope that all future meetings will pay proper diligence to security. No one should suffer murder or mayhem for the sake of public discourse, such heinous crimes go against everything our country was established to eliminate in society.

I pray that Congresswoman Giffords recovers fully without any deficit and is able to return to her duties as soon as possible. I also pray that Almighty God provides comfort and solace to the families of those who perished, and places His healing spirit upon those who are wounded in body and soul.

These are trying times. A time when a prayer for wisdom and divine guidance is our best defense against the powers arrayed against our nation.

Trying times indeed,

here's a clip of a "Town Hall",...Douglas Az, last July 10

Link: http://americanpatrol.com/WMV/GiffordsTWDouglas.wmv

Long Day, here in the land of "The Dry Heat"

Here's a synopsis,and a damned good look at the Media version of Von Claussvitz's "Fog of War" .....some are linked, and can be opened at:

www.americanpatrol.com


Chronologically read from the bottom up....sorry, just did not feel compelled to "Flip them", this will all be there tomorrow.

GTC

Capitol News Connection sc
Giffords shooting shocks lawmakers, staff
Washington -- Lawmakers and other workers on Capitol Hill are dismayed after a shooting rampage in Arizona Saturday morning that killed at least six people and wounded more than a dozen others, including Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. -- Soon after the news broke, someone dropped off a small bouquet of yellow flowers outside Giffords' Congressional office in the Longworth House Office Building...

Arizona Republic -- Phoenix
Witnesses recount 'chaos' at scene of Tucson shooting
It was supposed to be an informal event outside a Tucson supermarket to meet and chat with Rep. Gabrielle Giffords about any concerns constituents might have about the federal government. -- Giffords had held many of these Town Hall-style events in the past, but this was her first "Congress on Your Corner' of the New Year...

East Valley Tribune -- Phoenix
Reaction to attack on Gabrielle Giffords
U.S. House Speaker John Boehner: "I am horrified by the senseless attack on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and members of her staff. An attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve. Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society..."

KTVK-TV -- Phoenix sc
Vigil held at State Capitol for Rep. Giffords, other victims of Tucson shooting
About 200 people took part in a candlelight vigil for Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of a mass shooting in Tucson Saturday morning. -- The vigil was held at the State Capitol less than 12 hours after the shooting that killed six people, including a 9-year-old girl and a federal judge, and wounded 13 others...

KNXV-TV -- Phoenix
Giffords among lawmakers threatened last year
The wounding of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in a Tucson, Ariz., shooting spree that killed at least five people, including one of her aides and a federal judge, follows a dramatic increase in threats against members of Congress over the past year. -- In the first three months of 2010 alone, officials reported 42 threats to federal lawmakers...

Globe and Mail -- Toronto, Ont.
Dupnik: Second male sought in connection with Tucson shooting
Gabrielle Giffords, an outspoken Democrat congresswoman was gravely wounded after an assassin opened fire with a semi-automatic pistol at grocery store in Tucson Ariz., on Saturday. -- Police identified the suspected gunman as Jared Lee Loughner, 22. In a news conference on Saturday, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said he has "a troubled past"...

Detroit Free Press
Lawmakers, aides urged to take safety precautions
The U.S. Capitol Police force is advising members of the House and their aides to "take reasonable and prudent precautions" about their own security in the wake of a congresswoman's shooting in Arizona. -- In an e-mail obtained by The Associated Press, the Capitol Police say they are directly involved in the investigation of the shooting in Tucson, Ariz., of Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords...

U.S. Customs and Border Protection
CBP Commissioner issues statement concerning shootings in Tucson
The U.S. Customs and Border Protection family expresses our sadness after learning of the shooting involving U. S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Chief U.S. District Judge John M. Roll and others in Tucson today. Rep. Giffords has been a champion for border issues during her career, working side-by-side with CBP on many fronts...

KVOA-TV -- Tucson
Suspicious package found at Giffords' office
Tucson -- Police have confirmed that a suspicious package has been found outside Gabrielle Giffords' office, and a bomb squad is being called in to investigate. -- People holding a vigil outside the office have been pushed well away from the area, while the investigation determines the nature of this package, and what threat it may cause...

Associated Press
Sheriff: Shooter targeted Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords
Tucson -- Law enforcement officials believe Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was the intended target of an armed attack in Tucson. -- Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said at a Saturday evening news conference that "I don't have information about whether she was the first person shot, but yes, I believe she was the target."

Reuters sc
Giffords had faced threats, vandalism previously
Representative Gabrielle Giffords, the lawmaker shot by a gunman in her Arizona district on Saturday, had previously warned that overheated political rhetoric had prompted violent threats against her and vandalism at her office. -- "It's important for all leaders... to say, 'Look, we can't stand for this," Giffords told MSNBC last March...

Sky News
U.S. Congresswoman critical after shooting
US Democratic congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords has been shot in the head during an event in Tucson, Arizona and is in a critical condition in hospital. -- Earlier there had been reports she died as a result of her injuries but a doctor at University Medical Centre confirmed she was alive and was "very optimistic of recovery"...

American Patrol Report
Video: Giffords at town hall meeting
U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords shown here at meeting in Douglas, Arizona on July 10, 2010.

American Patrol Report
Shooting suspect identified
1:00 PM PST -- Fox News has announced that the name of the suspect is Jared Loughner, age 22. He is reportedly a white male. Also Judge Roll is the judge who ruled in favor of illegal aliens who sued a southeast Arizona rancher not long ago, according to Fox. -- A doctor at UMC, Tucson, reports that the congresswoman's prognosis is very optimistic.

Washington Post
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in critical condition after Tucson shooting
Arizona Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot and critically wounded Saturday morning while hosting an event outside a Tucson grocery store, according to local news reports, a tragic turn of events after an unusually heated campaign season...

American Patrol Report
Federal judge also shot dead at Tucson event
12:50 PM PST -- Fox News is reporting that Judge John Roll was shot and killed at the 'Congress on the Corner' event in northwest Tucson where U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head and gravely wounded. Several others also have been reported killed by the gunman. UPDATE: 12:53 PM: The death of Judge Roll has not been confirmed. -- UPDATE at 1:10 PM: The death of Judge Roll has been confirmed.

London Telegraph
Obama says Gabrielle Giffords shooting 'an unspeakable tragedy'
Miss Giffords, 40, a Democrat congresswoman, was shot in the head at a public event in Tucson, Arizona. An aide to Miss Giffords was killed and at least ten people injured. -- A lone gunman described as a white man in his late teens or early twenties opened fire at a "Congress on Your Corner" event outside a supermarket in the city...

American Patrol Report
Update from Tucson on shooting of Rep. Giffords
12:15 PM PST -- According to KVOA-TV in Tucson, not only in Giffords alive, she was talking when she went into surgery. This report reached KVOA from a friend of Giffords who is at the hospital where she is being treated.

KGUN-TV -- Tucson
Conflicting reports in Giffords shooting
11:42 AM PST -- Channel 9, Tucson, just reported that Gabrielle Giffords is alive and in critical condition.

KVOA-TV -- Tucson
Reports indicate 6 were killed, 12 injured at Tucson event
11:25 AM PST -- Sources tell News 4 that 13 people are shot, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, and six people are dead after a man opened fire at a northside political event held by the Tucson congresswoman. -- No confirmation on Giffords' condition at this time [update on this], but sources at the scene confirm that the shooter is in custody...

Mediaite
Report: Rep. Gabrielle Giffords killed after point-blank shooting In Tucson
11:16 AM PST -- After being shot "point-blank" in the head by a gunman at a public constituent event, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords has passed away, according to NPR. Giffords represented the 8th District of Arizona and was known as a moderate Democrat particularly involved in the border control issues...

KVOA-TV -- Tucson
Update on Gabrielle Giffords shooting situation
11:05 AM PST -- Seven people, including Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords have been injured during shooting at a Northwest side grocery store. -- It happened this morning at the Safeway near Oracle and Ina Roads. News 4 has a crew on the scene and we are gathering information at this time...

Breaking News
U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords shot at N. Tucson event
10:31 AM PST -- This per the Fox News Channel. Three staff members were also reportedly shot at a Safeway store at Oracle and Ina Roads in Tucson. [Related video]

What you say has nothing to do with the facts : the shooter has been clearly identified as a strong leftist.

The strategy you recommend is dangerously absurd.

Why? Is it your position that it's more justifiable to shoot the bystander? If he'd missed the politicians but shot a bunch of other folks and the little girl, would your reaction be, "Whew! Terrible thing, but at least the public officials are okay!"?

Gah.

Are you one of the bystanders? That would certainly change my view of it.

Hey--I didn't know that. I had wondered where garryc had gotten off to. I feel like saying, "It's nice to see you back," even though of course you haven't gone anywhere.


I wasn't questioning your witness.

But I'll bet that as a CO you can't let yourself develop a close relationship with a prisoner or become personally involved in his life the way we can. As I understand things, it'd be a dereliction of your duty, as well as physically dangerous to you, as well as practically impossible in at least a few cases (which would probably turn out to be the most important ones), given what you know about the prisoners.

Now, in defense of your point, I know of at least one active-duty CO, an active-duty warden, a retired warden, and an active-duty deputy warden who have been Kairos volunteers--and reasonably effective ones--but never at their own prisons.

Even the two super-COs I mentioned earlier wouldn't dare volunteer at their own prisons.

Spend my time, go out in the cold, stand around in a parking lot somewhere, all to listen to a politician?

Surely you can't be serious.

But, were Loughner the speaker.....

Sheesh!

Now we know beyond any faint glimmer of doubt that no post, no subject, is immune from inane argument, condemnation, and cheap shots.

Wow. That's [bleep] up.

Being a politician does not make you more important than a bystander. Being a bystander does not make you more important than a politician. A human life is a human life. one is not more justifiable then the other. For you(Barak) to hint that one is more justafiable then the other is sad. Read the word and understand it. Jesus would not have acted in this manner or would want you to act in this manner.
Maybe we are all taking your words out of context, maybe you need to correct them. However you seem to be sticking to your guns so I doubt we have taken your words out of context.
It is sickening to see you right those words. Sure Gabby was a politician, sure she knew the risk, sure we all know she isn't perfect, but she is still a daughter, a mother and most of all one of God's creation. She was a victim of a crime. Regardless of what she is or has done,she didn't deserve to be shot, judge Roll didn't deserve to be killed. The public and others involved didn't deserve this. The little girl that still had her whole life in front of her didn't deserve this. None is more important than the other. They are equally important. It is sad to see you say that someone deserved this. No one did!

I've never had an issue with you, but I do have an issue with how you are coming off in this thread. You are wrong and in a sense just as bad as the dirt bag that committed this crime because you are justifying part of his actions.

Kique

The best I can do is a nudge. Sharing his pain isn't an option. Ministering to him isn't an option. Praying with him is not an option. Just an occasional word, a flicker of light.

Of course if he later gets stupid it's a face full of pepper gas and a trip to the floor. Don't cross the line, the inmate makes the choice of dealing with Mr. Crosshair or officer Crosshair. Even my snitches know I won't give them slack.




From the reading I've done it seems that her positions on boarder security were spot on. Not as aggressive as I would like to see, but not typical DP positions.

Agreed.

The cheap shots are particularly annoying and distasteful.

Actually, I've already been through that stage and come out the other side. I'm actually further down the road than he is. There was a span of maybe three months or so a few years back when it's only by the grace of God that I didn't set my affairs in order, withdraw a bunch of savings, toss a rifle in the truck, drive to Washington, and pot me as many politicians as I could before they got me.

But my perspective is considerably more mature now, because of two points that were revealed to me.

First, it's not useful to be angry at politicians for being corrupt human trash, any more than it would be useful to be angry at fish for swimming or birds for flying. They're politicians; it's who they are and what they do. Anger stems from unmet expectations, and anyone who expects politicians to be anything other than gilded scum is a fool.

Second, when a politician is assassinated, three things happen: he becomes a martyr, with everybody saying how great he was and how sad it is that he's dead (you can see that right here on this thread); and he simply gets replaced with another politician. The depravity of human nature assures that there will always be more garbage standing in line to take his place. Then, of course, the martyr-worshipers beg the State to take more of their liberties away so that their rulers can be safer.

So no, I won't be flying into any rages and killing any politicians. My objective is to suck power away from the State, not to hand it more.

Hitler had his Reichsstag fire for slaughtering the Communists and the Lib/Progressives will try to make Rep. Gifford's wounding
serve their purposes.

Jim

I'm surprised that anyone would expect anything different from Barak on this subject.

It doesn't take long, if you're paying attention, to realize that Barak is nowhere close to mentally right.

Perhaps now some other folks will start seeing more of his true colors.

Wait until he latches onto the fact the Rep. Giffords is married to an active-duty military officer as well.

As for the real subject of this thread (before it started getting hijacked to Barakistan and lunacy), I continue to pray that Mrs. Giffords and all the victims of this incident, have a full and speedy recovery; that the dead are mourned and their families consoled; and that the perpetrator meets swift justice.

Beyond that, I hope that we as a people can recognize this as the actions of a lunatic, nothing more than that; and that we do not kid ourselves about being protective of liberties instead of more quickly moving to indentify such lunatics among us, for their protection and our own.

+1 the man who did this was a drug user and insane, I don't know if he had a criminal record. I prefer to focus on the hope that perhaps the congress woman will make a complete recovery and offer my absolute condolences to the families that lost their loved ones. For the man that did it, if a criminal how did he get a pistol in the first place? Then justice and execution for murdering all of these people no matter who they were.

Haven't read, nor have the time to read, all the above posts.. But IMHO Barak has gotten to the point of either borderline madness or intentional board provocation.. In any case, as I stated a few weeks ago, I had at one time some respect for him.. That's history and he's best ignored and not responded to..

That said, in one way I'm sort of surprised it's taken this long to have a shooting event like this.. When you have an unheeding, uncaring out-of-control leftist, socialist government that is ON RECORD as legislating in full disregard of the majority of their consituents, why is the outcome so surprising??

IMVHO, this tragedy rests directly on the shoulders of Pelosi, Reid and especially the Liar In Chief himself. I will bet a million to one that not one of those three will 'man up' and take responsibility..

Off to church now and pray for those poor souls in AZ...

I typically just skim most of your stuff because quite frankly, it's not worthwhile. I missed your next-to-last sentence earlier. From every piece of evidence I've seen, the guy was a Left-Wing whacko. Spinning him as any sort of right-winger would be dishonest, not to mention damaging to our cause. You are a dangerous idiot.

Barak.....you need to seriously consider some psychiatric counselling and possible treatment. To post the first paragraph you wrote, on a open forum, was dangerously stupid and to believe your follow-up self serving comments as to a new found maturity has somehow ameliorated your psychotic delusions and paranoia is even more troubling.

Get some help or separate yourself from the normal, innocents in your family.

A homicidal psychopath murdering innocents turns my stomach. NONE of the victims deserved this. I am deeply sympathetic to the familes of the victims and have no inclination towards mercy for the murdering swine who did it.

The ONLY change I'd make to that would be to add "and society" to the last request.

+1.

Yahoo is now saying they are searching for a second guy.

I can see how your argument would hang together for somebody who believes that "politician" is just another job like "plumber" or "farmer" or "doctor."

I don't believe that, though.

Plumbers and farmers and doctors help people. Politicians hurt people. (They'll claim they help people, and they'll produce people who will swear they've been helped, but they can only ever help one person by hurting another person more.) Politicians do the same sorts of things that the State locks private criminals away for; but politicians get away with it because being part of the State makes them special.

Most folks would say that in a situation involving a child, a single mother, and an armed robber escaped from prison, the most important thing is that the child and the mother survive. It'd be better if the armed robber survives too, but if it works out that he doesn't, it's less loss than it would be if the mother or child hadn't made it.

I'm only saying the same thing. To me, a politician is a peg or two lower on the scale than an armed robber.

Exactly. The real travesty is when people (and I use that term loosely) try to use a tragedy such as this to make a political point.



Well said, VA, +1.

Others here have been saying this better than I could find the words for.

Barak, what you posted is at best enormously stupid, or perhaps indicative of a fundamental flaw in your perceptions.

This is the most alarming thing I have seen you post since the time you argued that those founding their own self-governing communities (a la "Barakistan") should have the freedom to abuse their own children if that is what they decide to do.

Birdwatcher

Go ahead: I'm listening.

Attributing evil motivation to all "them" of the other persuasion, and only then "assessing" their involvement, automatically and always leads to easy conclusions and assumptions of "their" involvement and culpability in nefarious acts. Consigning evil before-hand inevitably leads to condemnation. Consigning innocence before-hand inevitably leads to exoneration.

Those whom we approve never do anything bad. Everything that the others do is evil. Every evil act has to be "their" doing.

(For example, like attributing this shootiing to the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, alien invaders, liberals, Democrats, Republicans, conservatives, gun-owners, drug-smugglers, disgruntled voters, ?-wing conspiracies, etc.)

Within seconds and long after JFK was shot, Texans, Southerners, conservatives, gun-owners, right-wingers were assumed responsible. No such collective condemnation followed the discovery that Oswald was a leftist.

Get the facts, then opine and guess.

IMHO, any collective culpability belongs to those among us who cherish and promote discord as somehow admirable, desirable, or delicious. Leave it to kooks to take any consensus to an extreme.

Cole, I have been trying to follow that. IF as described the other suspect is an OLDER man, it smells like a "mentor/student" type of arrangement. That would mean somebody found a homicidal psychopath to do his dirty work. Even going so far as to lay the foundation for an insanity defense.

Which does go DIRECTLY toward doing better, working harder, and not kidding ourselves about threats when identifying lunatics within our midst.

there isnt really anything to add to this except that i couldnt agree more with redneck,i lurked here at the fire for a while before i joined and one of the first discussions i got into involved barak and said right away that he was a loose cannon with a fuse half lit and so i said so and immediately got told to go shove it by him and his supporters, my point is i hope every one can now see that this dude is NUCKING FUTS and would probably be best if was in a straight jacket and a padded room

...or Handler.

To in any way validate an individual taking a life because that person is a politician is sheer lunacy. The people shot, killed or wounded, have no more or less value than anyone else. The fact is, the value of the life, and the right to that life, of the little girl, the judge, the staffer and the congresswoman are all exactly the same.

The guy that did this used a right in order to take away the rights of another. This mass shooting, no better or worse than any other, the shooter should face severe repercussions. After trial, being found guilty, he should be put to death. No different than any other like situation, involving politicians or not.

Hitler had his Reichstag fire to as an excuse for slaughtering Communists. The Lib/Progressives will use this crime to blacken the reputations and motives of any Conservative. This administration does not like any disaster to go to waste, when it can be used for political gain.

Jim

Despite your normally articulate posts Barak, you probably could've worded your thoughts better on this one, my man. You're out on a limb here...

I mean, I don't put politicians on a pedestal either.........


Casey

insanity is running rampant here today

It's true what you say. I think it fits right in with the point Cossatotjoe_redux was making, though. Partisanship is a normal everyday human reflex, whether it makes sense or not. Once it gets pushed to the point of violence, every member of a targeted group is at risk, regardless of his individual specifics, simply because he's a member of the group.

I suspect there are some partisan Democrats who think this was a Tea Party job who are making calls and changing plans right this minute because of it, in fact.

Be rest assured the insanity defense will be asserted as a affirmative defense,and rather soon, I might add. I am not familiar enough with AZ statutes or case law to know of any precedence in regards these asserted defenses,though.

If this third guy played a integral role in this tragedy, it should be quickly ascertained through a look at the guy's computer hard drive and other documentary materials being found during what I suspect is a ongoing "tear it apart" search right now.

Who is going to define "nuts"?--The government?

I mean, given some of the suggestive rhetoric here at the 'fire directed towards Demos/liberals/Obama/Pelosi/Reid......there would be a fair number of 'fire denziens who could be "diagnosed" with a politically driven definition of nuts........

Not one person at that rally packing heat apparently......



Casey

Out on a limb in what way?

I believe he meant that it is less reprehensible and more understandable (not justifiable), from his radical anarchist perspective. From a standard libertarian perspective, one might say rather that most politicians are of a sort that it would be more understandable why certain folks would be pissed off enough to blow their tops and try and eliminate them, but understandable is not justification. Justification for shooting someone is only in actual imminent self-defense. You must understand the difference between someone saying X was justified and X's actions were understandable. The latter simply means that it was predictable based on available facts.

If the Godfather sends out his goons to all the local businesses threatening to break people's legs if they don't pay for their "protection" services and garbage pickup, it's predictable that lots of folks would be angry, and some angry enough to seek out the Godfather to do him in, even though that would not be justified morally or criminally (Although, shooting the goons in self-defense would be, should they actually attempt to carry out their threat).

Not all politicians, however, are like the Godfather, since some of them are actually working to place government back into its constitutional chains. At least that's the standard libertarian view, but the radical anarchist view would be that ALL politicians are equal to the Godfather, and therefore it is equally understandable (though still not justifiable) that one of their victims might seek to do them physical harm at some point. It would also be less reprehensible for said victim to do harm to the Godfather than to do harm to an innocent bystander, which is also what Barak said.

Barak is a radical anarchist of the anarcho-capitalist bent.

I can tell you there are very good reasons for not packing at a political event. I certainly wouldn't. Good way to get Oswalded.

There are plenty of crazoids running loose nowadays and if one of them decides to shoot a politician, I don't wanna even be near a gun lest some pusssy liberal screech that I did it. I can easily let the government be responsible for security at such an event and if I feel like I just gotta go, I will take my chances unarmed.

Did you see the thread on the ultimate fighter who made joking public statements concerning being in the ring with the President? It got him a quick visit from the Secret Service. If you're looking for extraordinary attention, keep this up. You'll probably get it, First Amendment right or not. That's the kind of limb you're on.

Barak is a nut job. It's a fact that he's autistic and autistic folks are about as emotionless/detached as they come involving others. I'm sure he could give a [bleep] about anyone, as it's obvious he doesn't about himself since he had previously attempted to commit suicide.

It's also apparent that he is such a screw-up that we wasn't even able to pull off killing himself, which we now all have to suffer from his ineptitude.

Is it really a wonder he's a computer guy (requires little human interaction, which he sucks at). Of course he deals with prisoners also, because where the heck can they run to.

In that under the circumstances being a bit more circumspect in our thoughts/beliefs directed at our leaders/politicians/fellow humans......(at the risk of sounding like Gus).


Casey

I am very suspicious of the second man hypothesis.

I am concerned by the fact that, having on their hands a shooter who is a confirmed far-leftist is an embarrassment for some and they may want to find a fall-guy that could be painted as "right-wing" or better still "Tea Partier" and "terrorist master-mind" of the whole story...

I'll take a stab. Verbalizing an untenable position?

Barak is a [bleep]' fruitcake, and you gladly go right along behind him down the rabbit hole.

I don't think you'd have to look far to start seeing some lunatics, if you chose to do so.

Insane people are insane and may not be totally responsible for their acts, yet be able to think of ways to create mayhem. In this case, I heard on the news that this guy has a long troubled history of irrational acts.

At Pima Community College, the police responded 5 times to calls regarding his behavior; he was rejected by the Army for unspecified reasons; others have noted (after the fact, of course) that he did not make sense when talking of asking questions. He also allegedly had a drug problem earlier.

Yet, no one did much to ascertain his real condition (just let him go away). He obtained a firearm (legally or illegally, from a dealer or private purchase? - yet to be publically known).

Unfortunately for us, there will probably be repercussions in the form of tighter gun control.

Unless the thread is completely apolitical and his post is about the size of yours or smaller, I generally skip Barak's stuff. I don't have anybody on Ignore, because I don roll that way, but Barak gets incredibly long-winded and tedious.

Any way a person looks at it, this whole shooting incident is a terrible tragedy for the Judge and all involved.

Not to get too far off point on this tragedy, but if if plenty of folks were armed in everyday fashion, being armed at a political event would not be so unusual.........

And I adamantly believe there are FAR more good Americans out there than bad/kooky ones.


Casey

That's the difference between a politician and a statesman � in Twain's words, the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning.

Shades of Virginia Tech.

"And I adamantly believe there are FAR more good Americans out there than bad/kooky ones."

I totally agree with you here, but the bad/kooky ones cause untold damage to others and the good/sane ones are left with the fallout.

Knowing you, and reading your post with ordinary care, I perfectly understood what you said, Barak. Lots of folks here are looking to spin it into something you didn't say.

Easy Steelie......





Casey

When guns are eliminated, killers will use bombs.

No, most folks see EXACTLY what he said clearly, and that he's a nutjob.

You, as a fellow nutjob, can't/won't see it that way.

I agree and while I am all for us modeling good behaviors to others I value being a father and husband enough that this is one area where I am going to err on the side of caution. If you want to pack at such events, it's your own business, but I'm not going to.

Thanks for trying to stick up for me.

Radical, huh? You think I'm radical? Interesting. All I did was accept the premise "Everyone owns himself" and try to follow it to its logical conclusions. Maybe that is radical.


In my world, if somebody commits a crime (initiates force) against you, you're the only one who's qualified to determine what retaliation is justified. I have no standing to decide, because the crime wasn't committed against me. The State has no standing to decide, because the crime wasn't committed against it.

Of course, if you decide to delegate that decision to somebody who makes a profession of those decisions and is much more likely than you are to come up with a solution that will address the problem without completely screwing up the rest of your life, that's your prerogative. But the decision should be ultimately yours, if you're the victim.

It's just like hiring a plumber. If your pipe freezes and breaks, nobody should say you're not allowed to try to fix it yourself. It's your pipe, your house, your problem, and you have every right to do what you think is appropriate. Lots of people, though, will decide to hire a plumber to take care of it, because they believe his solution will be better and more professional than their own.


That's what they say, for sure. It's interesting, though, how they finance their efforts with the very same sort of extortion that every other politician uses. Also, notice how they always conveniently fail, so that they don't actually have to give up any power.


And The_Real_Hawkeye is a minarchist libertarian.

Ken, thanks for the reminder; I had come to the point where I though the word statesman had become completely obsolete...

EXACTLY so.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Saying this, this way, or agreeing with it, might make Steelhead/me/you an azzhole for being so blunt with the facts. However, that does not change the factual content of what he said.

He pegged Barak squarely.

Off into Barakistan we go, as the Barakian attention-whore twists this thread right down the rabbit hole with him.

or cars, what if he would of driven a legally purchased car at high speed into the crowd? would they be crying to outlaw cars?

Short of banning firearm ownership and becoming a Soviet style police state, there will always be firearms, and there will always be kooks.

And the disgruntled/kooks still choose places where firearms in the hands of good Americans are unlikely......whether it be a school, university, an intentionally disarmed military building, liberal political event, or commercial airliner.

Let some kook try this at some of the Tea Party events I attended here in Colorado this summer........where 10% of the attendees were openly packing.......felt pretty safe from any assasins or kooks.....



Casey

CBS News is now reporting:
The gunman used a Glock with an extended magazine.

My wife even questioned the reports last night, saying
he must have reloaded. I guess a 30 rnd mag would explain that.

That's pretty much what I thought you'd say. Thanks for looking out for me.


That surprises me, though. Which position do you find untenable?

Barak,

Politicians and you are a lot alike. You feel what you are saying is correct and politician feel what they say and do is correct. Politicians do what they feel is best for the country not what they know is best for the country. No one is perfect, read the bible, you'll learn we all have flaws. God the father, Jesus the son, and the Holy spirit are perfect, we on earth are not. Politicians make mistakes just like you and I make mistakes.

You said they are a step or two below a armed robber, You are a step or two above a nut job.
In no way shape or form were any of the victims doing anything to harm anyone. There is no justification for that mans action. She was holding a meeting to hear the people she represents. I don't see how that is/was hurting anyone.

Like I said I have never had an issue with you, but saying it is ok to kill innocent people (yes politicians and judges are innocent people in this case)is crazy! If they do something wrong you vote them out (their punishment) not kill them and people around them.

+1, though I understand Cole Younger's point too.

Speaking of the kooky ones...

Well said.

He's attempted suicide and is autistic, in short why waste time arguing with a mentally unstable retard?

This whole thing is a terrible tragedy for the victim's and their families. Just no other way to look at it. I always enjoy your posts Enrique.

Loughner scheduled to be arraigned at 11 am. IF anyone knows,is the jail part of the court complex or are the inmates housed in a separate facility separate from the courthouse?

Is vehicle transport necessary?

I think that I know now what a cauterized conscience is.

Superb choice of words.

I won't even get into a discussion of the worth of a politican's life vs. another human being--I disagree with you completely, but arguing the point with you won't do any good.

What's untenable is your attempt to assign some kind of rationale or justification for the gunman's selection of his victims. Because there is none.

The guy is insane, and I'm sure this will come out at trial. He had no reason to choose to kill a politician, judge, or little girl, he just wanted to kill someone.

Only an idiot would attempt to rationalize it. Or someone completely out of touch with reality.

One thing that can be pointed out is this:
People want what they can't have. When Clinton in the 90's issued his ban on certain weapons the value and want for those guns went up. Extended mags were sought. After the ban everyone that wanted one got one. Companies that seen how they could capitalize on it did. A handgun with a 33 round mag is not needed. At least I don't. If I can't defend myself and end a threat with a few shots, I doubt I am gonna have enough time to unload 33 rounds down the range.
It is my belief that extended mags, more people with military style weapons and the likes are all the effect of gun control and the fault of Clinton.
Look at Mexico, people can't have guns their without a permit. very few own guns because of the cost and fees. That leaves the population at the mercy of law enforcement/government and criminals. Proof that gun control does not work.

Someone described Barak as a retarded pitbull with lockjaw a few years back; attacked an issue without understanding it, grabbed it from the wrong end, too stupid to realize that he's got it by the wrong end, and completely incapable of letting it go.

To compound those problems, he's becoming more and more unstable as time goes on, with further and continuing advocations and condonations of lawlessness, usurpations of power, and violence.

He's been mentally unstable as to comprehensions of reality. He's becoming mentally unstable as to actions toward reality and certain segments of the population.

Res ipsa loquitur; "the thing speaks for itself".

It doesn't take much research or comprehension of what Barak has been saying, and where he's been going with it, to figure out that he's got serious problems and that they are getting worse.

Absolutely superb.

I believe there is NO explaining the irrational.

Some great points.

Barak, I meant you were a radical in the sense of occupying the most extreme position on the libertarian scale. No offense was intended.

As for my being a minarchist libertarian, if that's the same as being a conservative in the tradition of US Senator Robert Taft, I'll accept the nomenclature. Libertarianism is at the heart of authentic conservatism, but the difference is only that a conservative seeks to conserve (or, where necessary, restore) those factors which have a historical track record of promoting and preserving liberty rather than ignoring history and shooting directly for liberty based on untested theories.

Stunningly so.

Giffords and Roll: how were they paid? Do you know where their salaries came from? One group of people, or its delegates, put them in office over the protests of another group of people, yet the second group of people is still extorted by the State to pay their salaries.

Completely ignoring any and all other offenses they may have committed while in office, that right there qualifies as doing something to harm someone. Extortion is a crime. (When the government does it, it's called taxation rather than extortion, but it's still an initiation of force, therefore a crime.)

You are living proof that we live in a free society.

We just yesterday witnessed indefensible actions by an incomprehensible, mentally unstable, lunatic whose ramblings about creating new currencies, realities, societies, etc., were clear warning signs.

Just because a mentally unstable lunatic whose ramblings about creating new currencies, realities, societies, etc., are comprehensible does not mean that they are not clear warning signs.

It was designed for the Glock 18, a fully automatic version of the 17, made for protection details. 33 rounds goes fast at a cyclic rate of 1300 rpm.

They're also pretty handy when using a Mech Tech carbine.

=================

A fool and his words!

From what I've read, he seemed pretty intent on getting to Giffords specifically. If he really didn't care whom he killed, why would he have been so discriminating at the beginning?

Sounds to me like he didn't mind creating a generalized mess, but he wanted to get Giffords first.

Saying "It wasn't Giffords, it couldn't have been Giffords, nothing she said or did could possibly have had anything to do with it, he was just insane" seems to prematurely eliminate a lot of possibilities.

This surprised me a little. I thought it would immediately focus on gun control, but it does look like they are focusing more on the anger about recent politics.

I had high hopes for this article MSNBC Story , but they lost me with this tag line at the beginning and I refused to read it. Typical MSNBC/NYT.



'Pretty soon we're not going to be able to find reasonable, decent people willing to subject themselves to serve in public office'

I think that some of them realize that the gun issue is a loser no matter the circumstances, and look to focus our attention on the "right wing white haters" that they think populate the Tea Party/Republican Party, totally ignoring this whack job's political leanings.

After reading Krugman's swill in the NYT, I have stopped reading or listening to most things that the MSM puts out, especially involving this subject.

Credible witness makes it certain that Gilffords was the target of the man.

There won't be any more gun control other than that which would be permitted by the SC under their ulitimate SC ruling as to scrutiny. For quick example,I seriously doubt this SC will rule that a localities prohibition against magazines containing more than,let's say 15 rounds, would be unconstitutional.

To think this tragedy will undo Heller or McDonald is paranoia!

Forgive the side-track but it's now been brought up 5 times, twice by one of our prolific libbers.

I wanted to reply to this when I read it just to bump those wise words back to the top, but rather decided to wade thru another 5 pages of crap instead .
As I felt yesterday , my prayers are still with the victims and thier families .
My sincere wishes are that justice is done . Whether just the one loony or more connected if there are any.
And a pox on anyone using this tragic event to spout thier own agenda w/ vitriol from either side ( left or right ) without having the whole story .

[bleep] us again isaac.

I can't decide who I'd rather have STFU on this one: Barak/TRH, or isaac...

Again I will say:

"It is a damn shame, I don't care what her politics are. She is also a wife and mother.

Prayers for all the victims & their families."

isaac, if just one Justice changes his or her mind, Heller and/or McDonald can be reversed. Who knows how the shooting of a federal judge will impact future Supreme Court decisions. Probably not for the better as far as I am concerned. Rick

Dayum straight!

And to the others harmed and killed as well. Senseless and pathetic.

I was out last evening and figured I would check in and see what the fire had to say about the shooting. My worst fears... a 40+ page [bleep] flinging exercise where some unbalanced nutjob decides to defend the evil of another unbalanced nutjob.

At least that is not the consensus opinion.

Democracy can be messy. It can be maddening. Sometimes it can be futile. But IF we are going to be a nation where we govern ourselves, the foundation it must be founded on is that political arguments are settled politically. You cannot grab a pistol and blow someone's brains out because you disagree with their politics.

If you can't get your arms around that one we cannot have a democracy or a republic. Take a good long look at Eastern Europe, the Balkans, the Middle East, large swaths of Africa and Asia. These are places where this kind of violence rules or has allowed dictatorships and despots to come to power.

Will

Good Morning, there is not much of anything NEW this AM, ...just more talking head photo ops.

That damned "Spin" that Spanoid put on this is almost incomprehensible, and in view of everything thus far released, somewhere VERY close to outright LYING.

Barak,......to much of a puzz to leave his head on the tracks,
I suggest that he wash his mouth out with a revolver,.....that [bleep] went off the edge a LONG time ago,.....and I'd thought his crap could not get any worse,.....I was wrong, the man IS "The Enemy",...and this here site does NOT need his language posted.

TRH,......same......

Repellent, neither one of these lunatics has a clue (apparently) as to what a threat their self indulgent, fantasy driven text could become to this VERY open forum.

GTC

Being a politician is an unforgivable sin, punishable by immediate death, at anyone's hands, with no necessity for a trial, accusation, or warning. No due process, just a do act.

Takes care of every possible problem this side of Eden.

Simple.

Quick.

It's so logical, so obvious, that po' stupid me simply missed it. I'm so ashamed! I'm so embarrassed! How fortunate we are to have an omniscient among us!

Would folks be as upset about this incident if it had been Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Clinton or Obama who had gotten hit?



Myself, it's just a politician so I only give it half a shrug. If a meteor came down and hit congress while in session, I'd give it a shrug and a half.

I guess I just have little empathy for politicians and couldn't care less what happens to the lot of them(of course I wouldn't go out of my way to make something happen).

The operative words in Isaac's post are, "...this SC". No telling what happens once BHO appoints a Liberal.

Nobody said anything to the contrary.

Ignoring mentally unstable lunatics, whether they be comprehensible or incomprehensible, is what got us this situation yesterday; it's what got us the unabomber; it's what got us UBL; it's what got us Manson, it's what got us Hitler...

You'd think that we'd learn that ignoring them, pacifying them, placating them, only gets us more of the same.

The question is, what do you do with them, how, and when, once they are identified?

Another one...

But, to replace whom?

Barak,
You stated:
"Giffords and Roll: how were they paid? Do you know where their salaries came from? One group of people, or its delegates, put them in office over the protests of another group of people, yet the second group of people is still extorted by the State to pay their salaries.

Completely ignoring any and all other offenses they may have committed while in office, that right there qualifies as doing something to harm someone. Extortion is a crime. (When the government does it, it's called taxation rather than extortion, but it's still an initiation of force, therefore a crime.)"


Whether you agree with the government or not it is still your Government. For one who knows the Bible, it is clear in the words Jesus spoke "give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's" this was said when Jesus was asked about taxes and he asked those who tried to trap him "who's face is on the coin you are holding?". And he responded.
In saying that, whether you like it or not it is far from extortion it is paying your taxes just like you are supposed to do.

Kique

Yes.

The meteor line of thinking is not analogous, unless you or someone else has figured out how to install human control on a meteor.

+1

autistic = retard?
My 13 yo is autistic,and is on the honor roll.So blow me.(note,Im not defending Barack)

How's that appointed liberal getting through both Houses? You guys are paranoid and, FlaRick,my man, don't forget the rule of Stare-Decisis.

Like always, in two weeks, after the shock,awe and blame game has minimized to normal levels, gun control will only be the chatter inside the blogs of the usual,harmless suspects.

Misses the point entirely.

John Hinckley was intent on shooting Ronald Reagan--to impress Jody Foster, or rather, a movie character.

Mark David Chapman was intent on shooting John Lennon.

Ascribing some sort of rationale to their actions or intent is idiotic.

At best.

Good point. Lunatics are supposed to identify themselves when purchasing a handgun. What crazy person thought that would work?

At least Barak is part of the Kairos Prison Ministry and spreading the good word of God.

Among what other "teachings", is a far better question.

Sweet Jesus dude. If I call my wife a bitch does that make your wife a bitch?

just wanted to point that out.

In fact fluffy, why don't you take it further and connect all the dots. Most everyone here is calling Barak a nut job, Barak is autistic so then by default that must make all autistic nut jobs.

It's a LEAP and I'm thinking you are taking it all wrong. I was speaking about Barak. If I call him a nut job I'm not calling your son a nut job.

Did you mean "unforgivable sin?"

I don't know whether being a politician is a sin or not. Is it a sin for a fish to swim or a bird to fly? Perhaps politicians are politicians simply because God chose to leave something important out of them when he created them, and it's not to be held against their account at all. After all, I have to believe God doesn't hold retarded people to account for not being smart.

But if it's a crime to take something that belongs to somebody else without his permission, and being a politician implies being paid with taxes, then being a politician is essentially a crime, yes, if not a sin. The only reason it's not popularly called a crime is the popular legitimization of the State's monopoly on the initiation of force.

Of course, the vast majority of politicians in the real world are guilty of far more than just extortion. There aren't many offices you can get into these days without giving your integrity to somebody.

I told barack he was an idiot several months ago.

I don't need anything pointed out as I am able to reason. I know what I say about one doesn't pertain to another. Gotta wonder how people have become so sensitive.

Regardless of politics or views, this was a horrible act. This shooting was a cowardly attack. It was perpetrated upon innocents. IMHO, this monster should be put away, in the most horrible prison, for the rest of his pitiful life! After, mind you, an appropriatly fair trial an sentencing. I, for one, would not be against a good tuning up by the family members that have been hurt or have lost a loved one in this heinous attack! MTG

Do you think his autism factors in at all in regards to his detached feelings and lack of empathy? If so does calling him an idiot then make your son one? Of course not.

violent rhetoric from the bolshies..... https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...olent_rhetoric_from_the_bols#Post4798999

That is the question, let us hope that none leave before he is voted out, or a Liberal leaves.

The hell he didn't. That's what this thread is all about: rationalizing evil.

He is trying to come up with a valid reason as to 'why' this unstable lunatic was justified in shooting one of OUR elected representatives. Notice the supposed crimes she is guilty of in his mind? Stealing, extortion, unjustified use of force to access tax money.

No, in the minds of Barak and more than a few other anarchists this evil is not evil at all. And if they cannot change course then they become the enemy of self governance. Then they become MY enemy.

Will

Res ipsa loquitur.

+1

News reports this morning say authorities had this guy on the radar due to a previous encounter. In fact, one involving the same killer and Giffords. Also, they are now seeking a second person of interest. So NOW what's wrong with this picture? Who missed the red blinking danger light several years ago?

Shooter must have been using 9 mm FMJ.
To cause a through and through head wound and not kill her.
That plus immediate intense trauma care.

I havent had any coffee yet today.

You worked your way throught it. I gotta wife who's still crying over being called a hog.

a few things should be pointed out concerning the above, pointed out in the statewide azzwipe:
Giffords is attributed to owning a glock and has been a strong support of the 2nt amendment and gun rights.
Which isn't surprising at all given the district she represents.

Contrary to other parts of the country, it is considered pretty normal for politicians to meet people in their district in public venues. She was NOT their to give speeches, and none were given, she was their to LISTEN to people in her district. Just because your politicians don't do that, doesn't mean that ours don't.
Judge Roll was appointed by Bush, and is a life long conservative republican, respected on both sides of the fence as to judicial mine.

people are going to use this tragedy to spin their own arguments in a lot of different areas.
Quoting the sheriff there as talk radio etc is contributory, is spinning, for his own political purpose.

And we unfortunately will have the idiot savant and his minions posting bullsh*t on the net.
Anybody that can't see the tragedy in unneeded loss of human life and even on this forum spinning and using this sad story to promulgate their own political view is proof of the idiot savant label.
I have a long term friendship with a guy in the midwest is as to liberal as i am to conservative. We exchange bantor all the time. He is a gun owner too by the way. He has emailed me periodically about the right wing loonies. I have always said they are more on the left. I just wrote him an email apologizing, that there are loonies all over the place, certainly on this forum, including the resident anarchist.
40pages of tripe for the most part, discussions about hi cap mags, blah blah blah.
We have degraded to a poor society when the respect for human life is so trivial among some.

We cool?

Exactly.

The fact is that the mental instability and delusional reality of someone caused yesterday; it caused Reagan's shooting; it caused the unabomber; it caused the Holocaust; it caused the triggering of WWI; it caused a myriad similar incidents throughout history.

Mental instability and delusional realities can become VERY dangerous.

The questions that now stand before us as a society (and on smaller scales) again are: when do we identify them as exactly that, and what do we do about them once identified?

I don't believe that we have to look very far to find some examples that we really should examine more closely with exactly those questions in mind, taking off the blinders, and truly looking at them.

Oh, give it a rest. Have you really seen anybody--not just me, anybody--try to justify any of the shootings, even the politicians?

Of course not.


The shooter is an evil man who did an evil thing. The reasons he did it are of only academic interest. He should be handed over to his victims and their families; beyond that what happens to him should be between them and him.


Lots of drama there.

My objective is self governance, although when I say it I mean "governing myself" rather than "having politicians govern me."

I for one would be, this is not the way to run a railroad, that and the fact innocent bystanders were also killed or injured.

This IS NOT the way a republic is run. It IS the way 3rd world chit holes are.

I'm no lawyer but I thought SC nominees only needed Senate approval. I could be wrong...