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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2004
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Actually, I've already been through that stage and come out the other side. I'm actually further down the road than he is. There was a span of maybe three months or so a few years back when it's only by the grace of God that I didn't set my affairs in order, withdraw a bunch of savings, toss a rifle in the truck, drive to Washington, and pot me as many politicians as I could before they got me.
I'm going to cross my fingers and hope you get a very special wee hours in the morning visit from some totally humorless men, who without fanfare, introduce you to a pair of shiny bracelets, and are dragged, kicking and screaming, to some Godforsaken underground hole somewhere. I also hope someone 'forgets' standard protocol, and you are left with only your delusions and a belt for company in the quiet of the night. There is a line, and you have crossed it. I have TOTALLY stayed out of this because I feel I have nothing intelligent to add. But Barak, you REALLY have pizzed me off. You should be jailed and the key tossed for posting words like that. All the prayes and forgiveness in the world wouldn't help your sorry a$$. You sir are a pathetic waste of oxygen.
NRA Endowment Life Member (and proud of it)
Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
Deuteronomy 22:5
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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Yup, and the little prick did it HERE, ...on this board.
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Well , this board IS a cross-section of humanity . Which fact don't speak well of humanity . I ain't seen Big Stick on this thread .Maybe he is off workin' [ or maybe just smart].
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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John 13:34-35 A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.By this I know you're NOT a disciple of Christ Laughing at a funny post--one intended to be funny--is what? An insult to your sense of humor? And insulting your sense of humor is less than loving? Is that how you're thinking? Did you read alpinecrick's post? You know damn well what I'm talking about. It's your cold calused heart that preaches hate. That is not of Christ, and you know it. You sir are an anti-Christ.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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The COLDNESS of the rhetoric discussed that makes it so disheartening and downright creepy.
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Wow....
Good thing y'all didn't "attack" Barak by saying he needed to get help.
Lord only knows what folks would be saying about you, had you crossed THAT bridge....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
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Hate to dig up this toxic thread but...
Barak, ya asked my opinion. Sorry--I didn't know you had responded, so I didn't look here for awhile. Your assertion that all government figures are corrupt and worse than armed robber and perhaps even rapists is absurd. I don't think I said politicians are worse than rapists; I just compared the professions of politician and rapist to say that one can be morally condemned for being a politician according to the same mechanism by which one can be morally condemned for being a rapist, without reference to individual nuances. In order to qualify as either a politician or a rapist, you have to hurt people; therefore being a politician or a rapist is always bad, period. Your belief is that innate human goodness or Christian values whatever would prevent people from committing abuses upon others or upon their own children There may be an ancap somewhere who believes in innate human goodness, but the overwhelming majority of us believe just the opposite: in innate human depravity, corruption, and wickedness. If people were basically good, any kind of government would work swimmingly. It's the fact that people are basically evil that makes government dangerous, in that its coercive power amplifies the innate evil of those in the ruling class so that it can devastate the lives of hundreds or millions of people, rather than just a handful. Because people are basically evil, all forms of human government are also basically evil. A nicely idealized world perhaps. Except that innumerable examples past and present, show that left unchecked, all sorts of perversions and violence can become the norm and yet those communities persist indefinitely. It'd be an interesting debate to have, and maybe we should have it at some point; but as I said before, I'm a moralist, not a utilitarian. Utilitarianism has led to some of the greatest atrocities in human history. In short, experience has shown that a rule of law, as imposed by a government, is a necessary adjunct. What experience has shown is that no entity in human history is as prolific in torture, murder, and wholesale destruction as a government. Last century, as I'm sure you've heard me say before, governments murdered between 160 and 200 million of their own innocent subjects--not criminals, not foreign soldiers, but just regular folks. I suspect that in this century, with technology advancing, unless governments soon become obsolete, the government murder toll may exceed a billion. No private entity has ever achieved anything within orders of magnitude of those numbers; it's inconceivable that any private entity could. Keeping in mind my disavowal of utilitarianism above, it still seems clear that however bad a free society could be, it couldn't be nearly as bad as a government. No government is perfect, ours ain't bad, especially considering the alternatives. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Where it becomes more than just a difference of opinion is your lunatic assertion that anyone in government is necessarily corrupt and fundamentally evil. Politicians hurt people. They have to, in order to be politicians. A person who doesn't hurt people can't be a politician, any more than he can be a rapist. I posted the beginnings of a list of the ways in which we know Gabbie Giffords in particular hurt people. You're free to consider it lunatic if you like; but in my world, people who make a living by hurting other people are necessarily corrupt and fundamentally evil. IN this Tuscon case most of us see a tragedy involving an insane person inflicting horrible losses on decent people, you see a young man carrying out an act of public good. Normally I don't bother to defend myself against false accusations like this, because in most cases if people don't bother to read carefully the first time they're not going to bother to read carefully a second or third time either, and experience shows that you-show-me-where-I-said-that flame wars are almost universally unprofitable and ineffectual. But I have the impression that you're a little smarter than the average bear, so with you I'll go this far: I never said any such thing. Even more lunatic, you go on to aver that the children of politicians are themselves deficient, by genetics one presumes. What makes the child of a politician become a politician? Is it nature or nurture? If it's nature, then it'd be difficult to argue that the child wasn't just as deficient as his parent. If it's nurture, then the degradation and corruption of the child can be laid on the account of the parent. Either way, it's not pretty. 'Oh the shooter ain't a hero' you say 'because he also shot the general public, and a kid'. Leaving us with the implication that if he had just murdered or maimed the politician and the judge, then his act would have been virtuous in your eyes. You're of course free to draw whatever implication you like; but given that I pointed out several times that I thought shooting the politicians was wrong, just not as wrong as shooting the innocents, hanging on to that implication seems a little disingenuous. I think you would have made a very fervent Islamic radical, the logic and assumptions being very similar. Similar in what way?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You should be jailed and the key tossed for posting words like that. Am I to understand, then, that you advocate the commission of violence in response to an act of mere speech? (Kind of the way folks say the Tucson shooter did, I mean.) If so, there's a familiar feel to you. I may have gone to high school with you.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
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It's your cold calused heart that preaches hate. That is not of Christ, and you know it. You sir are an anti-Christ. Booga booga!
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,898 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,898 Likes: 5 |
"The 375HH is the greatest level of power you can get for the investment in recoil." (JJHack) 79s and losttrail, biggest waste of air.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 2,677 |
Barak, OMG, I can't believe you said what you said.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
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Hate to dig up this toxic thread but...
Barak, ya asked my opinion. Sorry--I didn't know you had responded, so I didn't look here for awhile. Your assertion that all government figures are corrupt and worse than armed robber and perhaps even rapists is absurd. I don't think I said politicians are worse than rapists; I just compared the professions of politician and rapist to say that one can be morally condemned for being a politician according to the same mechanism by which one can be morally condemned for being a rapist, without reference to individual nuances. In order to qualify as either a politician or a rapist, you have to hurt people; therefore being a politician or a rapist is always bad, period. Your belief is that innate human goodness or Christian values whatever would prevent people from committing abuses upon others or upon their own children There may be an ancap somewhere who believes in innate human goodness, but the overwhelming majority of us believe just the opposite: in innate human depravity, corruption, and wickedness. If people were basically good, any kind of government would work swimmingly. It's the fact that people are basically evil that makes government dangerous, in that its coercive power amplifies the innate evil of those in the ruling class so that it can devastate the lives of hundreds or millions of people, rather than just a handful. Because people are basically evil, all forms of human government are also basically evil. A nicely idealized world perhaps. Except that innumerable examples past and present, show that left unchecked, all sorts of perversions and violence can become the norm and yet those communities persist indefinitely. It'd be an interesting debate to have, and maybe we should have it at some point; but as I said before, I'm a moralist, not a utilitarian. Utilitarianism has led to some of the greatest atrocities in human history. In short, experience has shown that a rule of law, as imposed by a government, is a necessary adjunct. What experience has shown is that no entity in human history is as prolific in torture, murder, and wholesale destruction as a government. Last century, as I'm sure you've heard me say before, governments murdered between 160 and 200 million of their own innocent subjects--not criminals, not foreign soldiers, but just regular folks. I suspect that in this century, with technology advancing, unless governments soon become obsolete, the government murder toll may exceed a billion. No private entity has ever achieved anything within orders of magnitude of those numbers; it's inconceivable that any private entity could. Keeping in mind my disavowal of utilitarianism above, it still seems clear that however bad a free society could be, it couldn't be nearly as bad as a government. No government is perfect, ours ain't bad, especially considering the alternatives. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Where it becomes more than just a difference of opinion is your lunatic assertion that anyone in government is necessarily corrupt and fundamentally evil. Politicians hurt people. They have to, in order to be politicians. A person who doesn't hurt people can't be a politician, any more than he can be a rapist. I posted the beginnings of a list of the ways in which we know Gabbie Giffords in particular hurt people. You're free to consider it lunatic if you like; but in my world, people who make a living by hurting other people are necessarily corrupt and fundamentally evil. IN this Tuscon case most of us see a tragedy involving an insane person inflicting horrible losses on decent people, you see a young man carrying out an act of public good. Normally I don't bother to defend myself against false accusations like this, because in most cases if people don't bother to read carefully the first time they're not going to bother to read carefully a second or third time either, and experience shows that you-show-me-where-I-said-that flame wars are almost universally unprofitable and ineffectual. But I have the impression that you're a little smarter than the average bear, so with you I'll go this far: I never said any such thing. Even more lunatic, you go on to aver that the children of politicians are themselves deficient, by genetics one presumes. What makes the child of a politician become a politician? Is it nature or nurture? If it's nature, then it'd be difficult to argue that the child wasn't just as deficient as his parent. If it's nurture, then the degradation and corruption of the child can be laid on the account of the parent. Either way, it's not pretty. 'Oh the shooter ain't a hero' you say 'because he also shot the general public, and a kid'. Leaving us with the implication that if he had just murdered or maimed the politician and the judge, then his act would have been virtuous in your eyes. You're of course free to draw whatever implication you like; but given that I pointed out several times that I thought shooting the politicians was wrong, just not as wrong as shooting the innocents, hanging on to that implication seems a little disingenuous. I think you would have made a very fervent Islamic radical, the logic and assumptions being very similar. Similar in what way? I get the same feeling from this manifesto from Barak that I got from Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. Lunatic Fringe!
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea. I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
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Trouble with the ignore - feature - posters quoteing the ignored.
Conclusion -
the ignore - feature is useless.
We have to deal with ignorance, callousness, abusiveness, bitterness...
Member of the Merry Band of turdlike People.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,646 Likes: 2 |
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35 |
I thought Barak's defense was rational and well reasoned.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
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Yes it was and so was Ted Kaczynski's!
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea. I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35 |
Yes it was and so was Ted Kaczynski's! You believe that Kaczynski's defense of his actions was rational and well reasoned??
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Nope.
Hence the crazy face.
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea. I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Hate to dig up this toxic thread but...
Barak, ya asked my opinion. Sorry--I didn't know you had responded, so I didn't look here for awhile. Your assertion that all government figures are corrupt and worse than armed robber and perhaps even rapists is absurd. I don't think I said politicians are worse than rapists; I just compared the professions of politician and rapist to say that one can be morally condemned for being a politician according to the same mechanism by which one can be morally condemned for being a rapist, without reference to individual nuances. In order to qualify as either a politician or a rapist, you have to hurt people; therefore being a politician or a rapist is always bad, period. Your belief is that innate human goodness or Christian values whatever would prevent people from committing abuses upon others or upon their own children There may be an ancap somewhere who believes in innate human goodness, but the overwhelming majority of us believe just the opposite: in innate human depravity, corruption, and wickedness. If people were basically good, any kind of government would work swimmingly. It's the fact that people are basically evil that makes government dangerous, in that its coercive power amplifies the innate evil of those in the ruling class so that it can devastate the lives of hundreds or millions of people, rather than just a handful. Because people are basically evil, all forms of human government are also basically evil. A nicely idealized world perhaps. Except that innumerable examples past and present, show that left unchecked, all sorts of perversions and violence can become the norm and yet those communities persist indefinitely. It'd be an interesting debate to have, and maybe we should have it at some point; but as I said before, I'm a moralist, not a utilitarian. Utilitarianism has led to some of the greatest atrocities in human history. In short, experience has shown that a rule of law, as imposed by a government, is a necessary adjunct. What experience has shown is that no entity in human history is as prolific in torture, murder, and wholesale destruction as a government. Last century, as I'm sure you've heard me say before, governments murdered between 160 and 200 million of their own innocent subjects--not criminals, not foreign soldiers, but just regular folks. I suspect that in this century, with technology advancing, unless governments soon become obsolete, the government murder toll may exceed a billion. No private entity has ever achieved anything within orders of magnitude of those numbers; it's inconceivable that any private entity could. Keeping in mind my disavowal of utilitarianism above, it still seems clear that however bad a free society could be, it couldn't be nearly as bad as a government. No government is perfect, ours ain't bad, especially considering the alternatives. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Where it becomes more than just a difference of opinion is your lunatic assertion that anyone in government is necessarily corrupt and fundamentally evil. Politicians hurt people. They have to, in order to be politicians. A person who doesn't hurt people can't be a politician, any more than he can be a rapist. I posted the beginnings of a list of the ways in which we know Gabbie Giffords in particular hurt people. You're free to consider it lunatic if you like; but in my world, people who make a living by hurting other people are necessarily corrupt and fundamentally evil. IN this Tuscon case most of us see a tragedy involving an insane person inflicting horrible losses on decent people, you see a young man carrying out an act of public good. Normally I don't bother to defend myself against false accusations like this, because in most cases if people don't bother to read carefully the first time they're not going to bother to read carefully a second or third time either, and experience shows that you-show-me-where-I-said-that flame wars are almost universally unprofitable and ineffectual. But I have the impression that you're a little smarter than the average bear, so with you I'll go this far: I never said any such thing. Even more lunatic, you go on to aver that the children of politicians are themselves deficient, by genetics one presumes. What makes the child of a politician become a politician? Is it nature or nurture? If it's nature, then it'd be difficult to argue that the child wasn't just as deficient as his parent. If it's nurture, then the degradation and corruption of the child can be laid on the account of the parent. Either way, it's not pretty. 'Oh the shooter ain't a hero' you say 'because he also shot the general public, and a kid'. Leaving us with the implication that if he had just murdered or maimed the politician and the judge, then his act would have been virtuous in your eyes. You're of course free to draw whatever implication you like; but given that I pointed out several times that I thought shooting the politicians was wrong, just not as wrong as shooting the innocents, hanging on to that implication seems a little disingenuous. I think you would have made a very fervent Islamic radical, the logic and assumptions being very similar. Similar in what way? Res ipsa loquitur.
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
I thought Barak's defense was rational and well reasoned. Res ipsa loquitur.
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