|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35 |
LOL you are a funny man when you aren't defending people with moronic tendencies. Nothing this VA fellow has quoted defends you from your false claim that Barak said that it was in some sense OK for this nutjob to have killed any of these people.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
You best get a coloring book and some crayons if you wish to keep explaining it to him. Even the 6th graders he teaches know he's not smarter than a 6th grader.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails. William Arthur Ward
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,702 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,702 Likes: 1 |
I've had Barak on ignore for quite some time, but occasionally toggle his posts. Human nature I suppose. Hard to look the other way when there's a train wreck....
I see he has out-done himself this time.
You need help Barak...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
Barak keeps insisting that the government is extorting from the taxpayers even when the bible mentions to pay taxes and listen to the government. It doesn't say we can pick and choose. Okay, look. I have a presentation to prepare, and I can't spend all day here. But let me take one more shot at this. Enrique: in first-century Palestine, it was perfectly legal for a Roman soldier to grab a random Jew, who was just going about his business and hurting nobody, and force him to carry the soldier's load--in whatever direction the soldier happened to be going and for as long as he felt like--under threat of violence. Okay? In our world today, that's kidnapping and involuntary servitude. Felonies. Prison. So what did Jesus say about that? He said that if a soldier demands that you carry his burden a mile, you should carry it two miles instead. Now did Jesus mean by this that when a soldier forces his burden on you, it's not kidnapping or involuntary servitude? No, of course not. It's still kidnapping and involuntary servitude. Jesus is just saying that you shouldn't resist it. (Why not is a whole other lesson. No time now. Later, maybe.) So...by analogy, when he says you shouldn't resist taxation, he is not saying that taxation isn't extortion. Of course it's extortion: it fits every single definition of extortion there is, other than ones that make a clear exception for the State. (No, he didn't say "extortion." The word "extortion" didn't exist. The entire English language didn't exist. If he had said "extortion" nobody would have known what he meant.) It's not a crime to give a robber what he demands; but it's still a crime for him to rob you, whether or not he gets what he demands.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35 |
Barak keeps insisting that the government is extorting from the taxpayers even when the bible mentions to pay taxes and listen to the government. It doesn't say we can pick and choose. Okay, look. I have a presentation to prepare, and I can't spend all day here. But let me take one more shot at this. Enrique: in first-century Palestine, it was perfectly legal for a Roman soldier to grab a random Jew, who was just going about his business and hurting nobody, and force him to carry the soldier's load--in whatever direction the soldier happened to be going and for as long as he felt like--under threat of violence. Okay? In our world today, that's kidnapping and involuntary servitude. Felonies. Prison. So what did Jesus say about that? He said that if a soldier demands that you carry his burden a mile, you should carry it two miles instead. Now did Jesus mean by this that when a soldier forces his burden on you, it's not kidnapping or involuntary servitude? No, of course not. It's still kidnapping and involuntary servitude. Jesus is just saying that you shouldn't resist it. (Why not is a whole other lesson. No time now. Later, maybe.) So...by analogy, when he says you shouldn't resist taxation, he is not saying that taxation isn't extortion. Of course it's extortion: it fits every single definition of extortion there is, other than ones that make a clear exception for the State. (No, he didn't say "extortion." The word "extortion" didn't exist. The entire English language didn't exist. If he had said "extortion" nobody would have known what he meant.) It's not a crime to give a robber what he demands; but it's still a crime for him to rob you, whether or not he gets what he demands. Well said. Sort of what I was trying to say earlier.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Barak keeps insisting that the government is extorting from the taxpayers even when the bible mentions to pay taxes and listen to the government. It doesn't say we can pick and choose. Okay, look. I have a presentation to prepare, and I can't spend all day here. But let me take one more shot at this. Enrique: in first-century Palestine, it was perfectly legal for a Roman soldier to grab a random Jew, who was just going about his business and hurting nobody, and force him to carry the soldier's load--in whatever direction the soldier happened to be going and for as long as he felt like--under threat of violence. Okay? In our world today, that's kidnapping and involuntary servitude. Felonies. Prison. So what did Jesus say about that? He said that if a soldier demands that you carry his burden a mile, you should carry it two miles instead. Now did Jesus mean by this that when a soldier forces his burden on you, it's not kidnapping or involuntary servitude? No, of course not. It's still kidnapping and involuntary servitude. Jesus is just saying that you shouldn't resist it. (Why not is a whole other lesson. No time now. Later, maybe.) So...by analogy, when he says you shouldn't resist taxation, he is not saying that taxation isn't extortion. Of course it's extortion: it fits every single definition of extortion there is, other than ones that make a clear exception for the State. (No, he didn't say "extortion." The word "extortion" didn't exist. The entire English language didn't exist. If he had said "extortion" nobody would have known what he meant.) It's not a crime to give a robber what he demands; but it's still a crime for him to rob you, whether or not he gets what he demands. Well said. Sort of what I was trying to say earlier. Completely wrong, as to carry the load for 2 miles would have created a crime that the soldier would have been guilty of, or a service for which the Jew would have had to have been paid for the entire time of service (both miles).
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 18,215
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 18,215 |
Any way to delete this whole thread..? It has lived past its usefulness.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,471 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,471 Likes: 2 |
If nothing else, it's served as a reminder just how [bleep] up some of the idiots around here are.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,051
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,051 |
WOW!
I know the rest of you guys are right. Can't fix stupid.
I'm done on this subject. TRH and Barak can defend the azzclown that killed and injured all those people all they want. I am sure they are part of the Westboro Baptist Church.
I am only going to stay on topic and the news at hand. No sense if trying to get them to understand when they don't want too. 20 people were shot, some killed while holding a peaceful assembly. God protect the victims and the family members of each and every family affected.
Kique
Enrique O. Ramirez CLAN OF THE BORDER RATS - Member
"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,788 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,788 Likes: 1 |
Let us hold a minute in silence for all victims in this senseless act.
After a breezer - let us show them respect and let this thread end.
Member of the Merry Band of turdlike People.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
Certainly, but he was making a specific theological argument, not a criminal law argument. Actually, it was a natural-law argument. We know she has voted--and done so where it counts--to have the State take resources away from people in group A and give them instead to people in group B. It's reasonable to argue--heck, lots of people here made this very argument--that without those resources, people on the margins in group A will die. It is not clear--again, lots of people here made this argument--that those resources will save anyone in group B; as a matter of fact, it's more likely that as a result of the nationalization of health care, more people in both group A and group B will die. We know that she voted to use federal tax money, extorted from people who are passionately opposed to abortion, to pay for abortions. We know that she voted to greatly expand the powers of the FDA, which will significantly raise the price of food, putting it further out of the reach of people on the margin and undoubtedly killing some of them. We know that she voted to have the State extort more money from responsible, successful people and use it to bail out irresponsible, unsuccessful people. We know that she voted for an expansion of the definition of employer discrimination, trampling the property rights of small business owners. There's much, much more. She's been a federal politician for four years. She is not innocent. She has used the coercive power of the state to hurt many, many people, undoubtedly killing some of them; and her legacy will live on after her, hurting and killing more. As for John Roll, it's anybody's guess--which means I don't feel like doing the research--how many people he's sent to prison over his lifetime for actions that didn't hurt anybody but of which the State disapproved. 63 is a decent-sized lifetime. My guess is that there were at least hundreds. If he hadn't been a minion of the State, every single one of those would count as a felony kidnapping. He's not innocent either. The thing that makes politicians and other criminals different from regular folks in my mind is that they deliberately pursue a compulsion to coercively control other people rather than minding their own business. But yes, for all those keeping score, even though Giffords and Roll were politicians, it was not OK for some guy to walk up and shoot them. In a republic, the majority elects representatives that vote for what they perceive the common good. Some people strongly believe that abortion is wrong, yet the Congress can say that we will use taxpayer money to support abortions. Others may believe that spending 48% of the combined world's entire defense budget is wrong, yet our leaders have decided that is justified. Some want to build bridges to nowhere; others want to do something else. Some oppose universal healthcare, others want all people to have access to medical care while hospitals want someone to pay for it. This is how it works in our republican form of government.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35 |
TRH and Barak can defend the azzclown that killed and injured all those people all they want.
Enrique More bearing of false witness? Have you no shame?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
It is what it is. He's already shown he can't actually face his own "convictions".
I meet plenty of "them" in "real life". The actions of a few on the 'net give me nothing but humor.
Talk....
George Me too. The difference being at that time I was being paid and didn't have a choice to interact with them. I'm glad I don't know their true identities as I still feel morally encouraged to report psychotic behavior as displayed here by Barak and to a lessor degree, Hawkeye. Very disturbing that they freely roam in their chosen fields of "education" and incarceration.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,051
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,051 |
Just incase you guys missed this, I posted it on a thread I started. Three Sonorans (of which I am no fan of) posted on the Tucson Citizen the following: "Fred Phelps� Westboro Baptist Church says that God sent the shooter today. His church also plans on protesting at the funeral of 9 year-old Cristina Taylor Greene. They plan on coming to OUR town and disgracing us? YA BASTA!" http://tucsoncitizen.com/three-sonorans/...reenes-funeral/Like I said I don't care for Three Sonorans, but I will stand by him on this issue. This is our common ground. plus these nutjobs are the antichrist on earth covering themselves up like christians. Kique
Enrique O. Ramirez CLAN OF THE BORDER RATS - Member
"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,788 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,788 Likes: 1 |
Member of the Merry Band of turdlike People.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
Ending World War Two was worthy of global applause.
Assassinating Hitler to do it, however justifiiable or necessary that may have been, would not have been worthy of the same applause.
Bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved tens of millions more lives than it took � thunderous applause and woeful tragedy, not an either-or matter at all. Neither one alone nor the other alone. Wasn't so much speaking to applause, I agree there is no need for applauding any killing, but rather the acceptance of assassination. People in general, tend to get tripped up in justifying murder, on some individual sliding scale of the victim's merit. I find it interesting that we as a society, often find shooting a soldier from 20 yards, or firebombing a civilian populace from 20,000' an acceptable practice, yet wince when a leader of a country is shot at point blank range. I see little difference in the act itself, the difference lies in the moral justification. A whack job who murders a congresswoman will find little sympathy with the populace and be properly punished. A whack job who murders a tyrant, may find refuge with the people who were oppressed by the tyrant. A whack job who murders a Hitler may end a war and be treated a hero by millions of people. The differences lie not with the act, but within a sliding scale of acceptance by others...i.e., you do not want to be someone who is in a distinct minority in feeling that individual deserved death. It is for this reason that Jared Loughner will find little sympathy within the populace for his actions, and will deservedly spend the rest of his life in prison or be executed. Not because he was an assassin, but because he assassinated people the vast majority of us, will deem undeserving of death.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,051
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,051 |
BTW not speack false witness sir. Its true and the proof is in the thread with all both of you have said.
Anyone have a prayer that can be posted for a time and situation like this?
Enrique O. Ramirez CLAN OF THE BORDER RATS - Member
"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35 |
BTW not speack false witness sir. Its true and the proof is in the thread with all both of you have said.
Anyone have a prayer that can be posted for a time and situation like this? You will need to post some quotes, then.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,051
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,051 |
Nope read what Barak wrote and read what you wrote. You dig it up and find it. It's there. If VA found Baraks I am sure you are smart enough to find the info.
What do you think of the Westboro idoits trying to protest a 9yo's funneral?
Enrique O. Ramirez CLAN OF THE BORDER RATS - Member
"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610 |
You owe me a new keyboard
"Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom." MOLON LABE
|
|
|
|
523 members (007FJ, 1lessdog, 160user, 01Foreman400, 1badf350, 1Longbow, 55 invisible),
2,150
guests, and
1,144
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,240
Posts18,504,527
Members73,994
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|