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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This thread is unbelievable...
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Unfortunately, Greg, it's very believable.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It's hilarious how these things always turn into an assessment of each other as opposed to the subject of the thread itself.
"Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom."
MOLON LABE
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Campfire Ranger
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Certainly, but he was making a specific theological argument, not a criminal law argument. Actually, it was a natural-law argument. We know she has voted--and done so where it counts--to have the State take resources away from people in group A and give them instead to people in group B. It's reasonable to argue--heck, lots of people here made this very argument--that without those resources, people on the margins in group A will die. It is not clear--again, lots of people here made this argument--that those resources will save anyone in group B; as a matter of fact, it's more likely that as a result of the nationalization of health care, more people in both group A and group B will die. We know that she voted to use federal tax money, extorted from people who are passionately opposed to abortion, to pay for abortions. We know that she voted to greatly expand the powers of the FDA, which will significantly raise the price of food, putting it further out of the reach of people on the margin and undoubtedly killing some of them. We know that she voted to have the State extort more money from responsible, successful people and use it to bail out irresponsible, unsuccessful people. We know that she voted for an expansion of the definition of employer discrimination, trampling the property rights of small business owners. There's much, much more. She's been a federal politician for four years. She is not innocent. She has used the coercive power of the state to hurt many, many people, undoubtedly killing some of them; and her legacy will live on after her, hurting and killing more. As for John Roll, it's anybody's guess--which means I don't feel like doing the research--how many people he's sent to prison over his lifetime for actions that didn't hurt anybody but of which the State disapproved. 63 is a decent-sized lifetime. My guess is that there were at least hundreds. If he hadn't been a minion of the State, every single one of those would count as a felony kidnapping. He's not innocent either. The thing that makes politicians and other criminals different from regular folks in my mind is that they deliberately pursue a compulsion to coercively control other people rather than minding their own business. But yes, for all those keeping score, even though Giffords and Roll were politicians, it was not OK for some guy to walk up and shoot them.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Gotta quit reading this, I am getting PIZZED!
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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TRH,
I think VA already posted enough evidence to back what I wrote. Who??
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Certainly, but he was making a specific theological argument, not a criminal law argument. Actually, it was a natural-law argument. We know she has voted--and done so where it counts--to have the State take resources away from people in group A and give them instead to people in group B. It's reasonable to argue--heck, lots of people here made this very argument--that without those resources, people on the margins in group A will die. It is not clear--again, lots of people here made this argument--that those resources will save anyone in group B; as a matter of fact, it's more likely that as a result of the nationalization of health care, more people in both group A and group B will die. We know that she voted to use federal tax money, extorted from people who are passionately opposed to abortion, to pay for abortions. We know that she voted to greatly expand the powers of the FDA, which will significantly raise the price of food, putting it further out of the reach of people on the margin and undoubtedly killing some of them. We know that she voted to have the State extort more money from responsible, successful people and use it to bail out irresponsible, unsuccessful people. We know that she voted for an expansion of the definition of employer discrimination, trampling the property rights of small business owners. There's much, much more. She's been a federal politician for four years. She is not innocent. She has used the coercive power of the state to hurt many, many people, undoubtedly killing some of them; and her legacy will live on after her, hurting and killing more. As for John Roll, it's anybody's guess--which means I don't feel like doing the research--how many people he's sent to prison over his lifetime for actions that didn't hurt anybody but of which the State disapproved. 63 is a decent-sized lifetime. My guess is that there were at least hundreds. If he hadn't been a minion of the State, every single one of those would count as a felony kidnapping. He's not innocent either. The thing that makes politicians and other criminals different from regular folks in my mind is that they deliberately pursue a compulsion to coercively control other people rather than minding their own business. But yes, for all those keeping score, even though Giffords and Roll were politicians, it was not OK for some guy to walk up and shoot them. But, by your own words, you believe it to be less wrong; for their injuries or death to be less tragic, than if it happened to someone who was not a politician or judge? And, you think that they chose those careers because they were corrupt and because God might have forgotten to put something important in them? Those are your words, Ed, and clearly evidence as to why you need help.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'll repeat my earlier, it's not worth your stress/time Terry. How much is the "man's" opinion and/or warped logic really worth to you.
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It's what impact that man's warped logic might have upon others that is more of a concern.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Gotta quit reading this, I am getting PIZZED! I'm more than pizzed... miserable F'ers... I can no longer associate with this scum or where they are abided.
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Campfire Outfitter
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It is what it is. He's already shown he can't actually face his own "convictions".
I meet plenty of "them" in "real life". The actions of a few on the 'net give me nothing but humor.
Talk....
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Unfortunately, Greg, it's very believable. The hypocrisy and perverted justification here is utterly astounding. Utterly astounding.
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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Certainly, but he was making a specific theological argument, not a criminal law argument. Actually, it was a natural-law argument. We know she has voted--and done so where it counts--to have the State take resources away from people in group A and give them instead to people in group B. It's reasonable to argue--heck, lots of people here made this very argument--that without those resources, people on the margins in group A will die. It is not clear--again, lots of people here made this argument--that those resources will save anyone in group B; as a matter of fact, it's more likely that as a result of the nationalization of health care, more people in both group A and group B will die. We know that she voted to use federal tax money, extorted from people who are passionately opposed to abortion, to pay for abortions. We know that she voted to greatly expand the powers of the FDA, which will significantly raise the price of food, putting it further out of the reach of people on the margin and undoubtedly killing some of them. We know that she voted to have the State extort more money from responsible, successful people and use it to bail out irresponsible, unsuccessful people. We know that she voted for an expansion of the definition of employer discrimination, trampling the property rights of small business owners. There's much, much more. She's been a federal politician for four years. She is not innocent. She has used the coercive power of the state to hurt many, many people, undoubtedly killing some of them; and her legacy will live on after her, hurting and killing more. As for John Roll, it's anybody's guess--which means I don't feel like doing the research--how many people he's sent to prison over his lifetime for actions that didn't hurt anybody but of which the State disapproved. 63 is a decent-sized lifetime. My guess is that there were at least hundreds. If he hadn't been a minion of the State, every single one of those would count as a felony kidnapping. He's not innocent either. The thing that makes politicians and other criminals different from regular folks in my mind is that they deliberately pursue a compulsion to coercively control other people rather than minding their own business. But yes, for all those keeping score, even though Giffords and Roll were politicians, it was not OK for some guy to walk up and shoot them. I was referring to Enrique, not you.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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TRH,
I think VA already posted enough evidence to back what I wrote. Who?? ================== No need to pretend to be a dumb-schit any longer; that cat has long been out of the bag.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Guessing Barak's gonna find himself up [bleep] without a paddle this time. Should probably be expecting a visit from the feds shortly.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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TRH,
VAnimrod Posted what Barak had to say when you said Barak didn't say what I say he said. The information is there to back my statement.
Barak keeps insisting that the government is extorting from the taxpayers even when the bible mentions to pay taxes and listen to the government. It doesn't say we can pick and choose.
Enrique O. Ramirez
CLAN OF THE BORDER RATS - Member
"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1
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Campfire Tracker
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I'll post it again since you missed it. TRH,
I implied no such thing. I implied that everyone in this was equal and that your buddy barak is wrong in saying just because one is in congress and one is a judge that it was not so bad and in a sense ok for them to have been shot. He reasoned they were not so bad because they are extortionists of the tax payers. I pointed out by way of the bible that HE supposedly reads and understands where he was wrong.
Are you aware that bearing false witness is a sin? Really?
If their kids are going to grow up to be politicians too, it's tough for me to feel too bad for them.
The only thing you got right is that I'm anti-Constitutionalist.
I'm not going to say it was right for this particular congresswoman and judge to be shot; but however right or wrong it was, it was more wrong for the other people and the little girl to be shot.
There was a span of maybe three months or so a few years back when it's only by the grace of God that I didn't set my affairs in order, withdraw a bunch of savings, toss a rifle in the truck, drive to Washington, and pot me as many politicians as I could before they got me. My objective is to suck power away from the State, not to hand it more.
Plumbers and farmers and doctors help people. Politicians hurt people. To me, a politician is a peg or two lower on the scale than an armed robber.
In my world, if somebody commits a crime (initiates force) against you, you're the only one who's qualified to determine what retaliation is justified. The decision should be ultimately yours, if you're the victim.
Anyone who expects politicians to be anything other than gilded scum is a fool.
I don't know whether being a politician is a sin or not. Is it a sin for a fish to swim or a bird to fly? Perhaps politicians are politicians simply because God chose to leave something important out of them when he created them, and it's not to be held against their account at all. After all, I have to believe God doesn't hold retarded people to account for not being smart.
But if it's a crime to take something that belongs to somebody else without his permission, and being a politician implies being paid with taxes, then being a politician is essentially a crime, yes, if not a sin. The only reason it's not popularly called a crime is the popular legitimization of the State's monopoly on the initiation of force.
Of course, the vast majority of politicians in the real world are guilty of far more than just extortion.
The injuries and deaths of the bystanders are more tragic than the injuries and deaths of the politicians. I would have said the same thing if the damage had been caused by an earthquake or a tornado.
As to whether politicians are subhuman or not...it's an interesting question. If they are simply fundamentally incapable of restraining themselves, then they don't bear any moral responsibility for the death and devastation they cause, but they're also pretty undeniably subhuman.
On the other hand, if they're fully human, it means that they've chosen to commit the crimes they've committed, when they could have made different choices instead, and are therefore fully responsible for them.
I'll admit that it'd be awfully difficult for me to love a politician. Much easier to love an armed robber.
I rate my compassion for politicians based on whether they're politicians or not.
Enrique O. Ramirez
CLAN OF THE BORDER RATS - Member
"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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TRH,
VAnimrod Posted what Barak had to say when you said Barak didn't say what I say he said. The information is there to back my statement.
Barak keeps insisting that the government is extorting from the taxpayers even when the bible mentions to pay taxes and listen to the government. It doesn't say we can pick and choose. Is there a member here by that screen name?
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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LOL you are a funny man when you aren't defending people with moronic tendencies.
Enrique O. Ramirez
CLAN OF THE BORDER RATS - Member
"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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More along the lines of "ignorance is bliss".
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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