|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101 |
The freedom of people in other nations, while it is certainly a good thing and to be desired, is not the highest calling of US...or Canadian....foreign policy. The security of the US is paramount. And for the security of the region, an autocrat like Mubarek who will keep the peace and protect the Canal, may be a better option than a chaotic "democracy" with one vote leading to a Muslim brotherhood theocratic dictatorship. But we don't decide these things....
and BTW....when is the world going to pay attention to the repression going on now in Belarus, which makes anything Mubarek did look like Sunday school. I see your point - and agree somewhat. What is best for the west - might well be - a stable middle east. Even if it means the people of Egypt are governed by a dictator. But - shouldn't we be doing what we can - to do what is best for the people of Egypt? It's interesting to note - that about 235 years ago - the British thought it was OK to trample a people's freedom - as long as they could have stability in their colonies. The American colonists had a problem with that - and gave rise to a country that stood for freedom. Freedom - was more important to those Americans - than stability. I suspect the same feelings would be true for today's Egyptians. Is there any man here - who would prefer stable servitude to our occasionally chaotic freedom? What is the most moral choice? Because - whatever that is - the moral choice should always be the one we choose to support.
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,464
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,464 |
Mubarak's going, whether we like it or not. The question is, once her's gone, whether it's in our best interest to be seen as having backed him against the popular will. Events usually show that backing the loser hurts.
Murphy was an optimist.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,645
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,645 |
The word is "caste" people, not "cast".
Brian
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,065
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,065 |
The freedom of people in other nations, while it is certainly a good thing and to be desired, is not the highest calling of US...or Canadian....foreign policy. The security of the US is paramount. And for the security of the region, an autocrat like Mubarek who will keep the peace and protect the Canal, may be a better option than a chaotic "democracy" with one vote leading to a Muslim brotherhood theocratic dictatorship. But we don't decide these things....
and BTW....when is the world going to pay attention to the repression going on now in Belarus, which makes anything Mubarek did look like Sunday school. I see your point - and agree somewhat. What is best for the west - might well be - a stable middle east. Even if it means the people of Egypt are governed by a dictator. But - shouldn't we be doing what we can - to do what is best for the people of Egypt? It's interesting to note - that about 235 years ago - the British thought it was OK to trample a people's freedom - as long as they could have stability in their colonies. The American colonists had a problem with that - and gave rise to a country that stood for freedom. Freedom - was more important to those Americans - than stability. I suspect the same feelings would be true for today's Egyptians. Is there any man here - who would prefer stable servitude to our occasionally chaotic freedom? What is the most moral choice? Because - whatever that is - the moral choice should always be the one we choose to support. I keep hearing the Egyptians are rioting for freedom. I have not seen one sign that says Freedom or Liberty, has anyone else noticed this? Tim
"I hate rude behaviour in a man .....I won't tolerate it." Capt. Woodrow F. Call (Tommy Lee Jones) The Movie "Lonesome Dove"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
The freedom of people in other nations, while it is certainly a good thing and to be desired, is not the highest calling of US...or Canadian....foreign policy. The security of the US is paramount. And for the security of the region, an autocrat like Mubarek who will keep the peace and protect the Canal, may be a better option than a chaotic "democracy" with one vote leading to a Muslim brotherhood theocratic dictatorship. But we don't decide these things....
and BTW....when is the world going to pay attention to the repression going on now in Belarus, which makes anything Mubarek did look like Sunday school. I see your point - and agree somewhat. What is best for the west - might well be - a stable middle east. Even if it means the people of Egypt are governed by a dictator. But - shouldn't we be doing what we can - to do what is best for the people of Egypt? It's interesting to note - that about 235 years ago - the British thought it was OK to trample a people's freedom - as long as they could have stability in their colonies. The American colonists had a problem with that - and gave rise to a country that stood for freedom. Freedom - was more important to those Americans - than stability. I suspect the same feelings would be true for today's Egyptians. Is there any man here - who would prefer stable servitude to our occasionally chaotic freedom? What is the most moral choice? Because - whatever that is - the moral choice should always be the one we choose to support. I keep hearing the Egyptians are rioting for freedom. I have not seen one sign that says Freedom or Liberty, has anyone else noticed this? Tim Exactly. They are rioting against Mubarak, not FOR anything, except "change". I think we all know how well that can turn out...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101 |
Actually, yesterday there was a crowd chanting "Give me Liberty - or give me Death".
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Actually, yesterday there was a crowd chanting "Give me Liberty - or give me Death". Link?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,436
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,436 |
Let me see if I got this right..
The President of The United States had to call the King of Saudi Arabia to ask him how he (Obama) should treat the legitimate President of Egypt..
That speaks many volumes about the lack of character, maturity, loyalty and intellect of Obama.. Unfrigging believable.. Actually, I think it was the king who called the president, not the other way around. Must be great for BHO to pick up the phone and get an ass-chewin' from the king of Saudi Arabia. Especially as the king is also the grand mullah of the Wahabs, the mos radical of Muslim sects.... Thanks for the correction. Any way you slice it, Mubarak is history. After he goes, there will be chaos, with the brotherhood ending up in control. Ameture Hour At The White House MICHAEL GOODWIN: Egypt Protests Prove That It's Amateur Hour at the Obama White House By Michael Goodwin Published February 07, 2011 | FoxNews.com advertisement In her 2008 race against Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton famously used a ringing red telephone to question Obama's national-security chops. "It's 3 a.m.," a narrator warned over video of a sleeping child. "Who do you want to answer the phone?" We now know neither Obama nor Clinton was ready for the call from Egypt. Whatever the clock says, it's still amateur hour in this White House. From the moment the demonstrations started 12 days ago, the foreign-policy team stumbled. Secretary of State Clinton said Hosni Mubarak's regime was "stable," and Vice President Joe Biden said Mubarak wasn't a dictator and shouldn't resign. As the ranks of marchers swelled, Obama's instincts took him in the opposite direction. He quickly tried to push Mubarak out, first behind the scenes, then more publicly. A measure of uncertainty in the face of the historic uprising is understandable, but American leaders have been serially certain. They have wholeheartedly embraced ever-shifting simplistic views, none of which fully reflects the obvious dangers ahead and the fallout from dumping an ally of 30 years. It's almost like Super Bowl rooting. Packers or Steelers? Mubarak or demonstrators? One result of turning on Mubarak came when press secretary Robert Gibbs said negotiations should include "non-secular actors." Translation: The White House is ready to have the Muslim Brotherhood join the Egyptian government. Other officials confirmed that decision, even though a leader of the radical Islamist group said Egyptians "should be prepared for war against Israel." He also said Egypt should close the Suez Canal and stop the flow of natural gas to Israel. Then Saturday, saboteurs attacked the gas pipeline to Jordan, and the one to Israel was shut as a precaution. Meanwhile, the king of Jordan, the only Arab nation other than Egypt to have diplomatic relations with Israel, sacked the prime minister and met with Muslim Brotherhood leaders to try to stop demonstrations in his country. Hello, the red phone is ringing. Michael Goodwin is a New York Post columnist and Fox News contributor. To continue reading his column on other topics including former White House adviser Larry Summers, click here. Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion...house/#ixzz1DQm9xLJU
Don Buckbee
JPFO
NRA Benefactor Member
NSSA Life Member
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,990
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,990 |
BHO, keep diggin' that hole deeper. Change will come to Egypt, but it won't be good for their people or us.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101 |
Saw it on CNN - last night. I know, I know - it's not "FOX" - so what I saw would be suspect - of course. 
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101 |
Change has come.
Mubarak resigned this morning.
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Then, we're about to see, very quickly, whether you're right or not.
I truly hope so, but I sincerely doubt it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,683
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,683 |
yep they're free now, to install a more militant, radical gov't that doesn't recognize Israels right to exist.
my thoughts are this thing ultimately winds up with bombs bursting in air and nary a sight of Francis Scott Key
might be a good time to have alla your fuel tanks topped off fellas and keep em that way for as long as possible.
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,159
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,159 |
BHO has learned a lesson from all of this Egypt action: ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/OB_on_Egypt.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,997
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,997 |
The Saudis did not appreciate Barack Hussein OBAMA's treasonous behavior and gave him a still lesson on how to treat friends and allies of the USA and of Saudi Arabia! http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/SAUDIS TOLD OBAMA TO BACK MUBARACK
Saudi Arabia has threatened to prop up President Mubarak if the White House tries to force a swift change of regime in Egypt. In a testy personal telephone call on January 29, King Abdullah told President Obama not to humiliate Mr Mubarak and warned that he would step in to bankroll Egypt if the US withdrew its aid programme, worth $1.5 billion annually.
America�s closest ally in the Gulf made clear that the Egyptian President must be allowed to stay on to oversee the transition towards peaceful democracy and then leave with dignity.
�Mubarak and King Abdullah are not just allies, they are close friends, and the King is not about to see his friend cast aside and humiliated,� a senior source in the Saudi capital told The Times. Two sources confirmed details of the King�s call, made four days after the...For the complete article, please go to the Times site. Not to be misconstrued as any support of Obama, but I wonder what the good King Abdullah has to say now?
|
|
|
|
|
552 members (06hunter59, 1_deuce, 219 Wasp, 12344mag, 222Sako, 1minute, 70 invisible),
2,613
guests, and
1,333
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,564
Posts18,473,207
Members73,940
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
