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Please reference where I told anyone not to use VLD's. I gave an opinion on why I do not use a controversial big game bullet. No, you denigrated those who use them, which is the same thing as saying that Berger users are wrong for using them. But the two quotes below sum it up for me pretty well, another example of casting aspersions on something you've never seen: Does anyone think this "Best of the West" show could possibly promote irresponsible shots, referring to relatively-new hunters that do not have any idea what long-range shooting entails? I haven't watched it, as I do not have cable/dish. Smokepole, I honestly thought you would never notice and ask (concerning viewing the show). I was recently contacted by a gentleman that had missed a few 350 yd shots at elk with his 30-06. He was hunting in Colorado, last October. We'll call him Jack. Anyway, he had just bought a used (new to him) 7mm. He told me he was planning for a 800+ shot. He had seen it done many times on the "Best of the West" cable show. Jack was putting a "less than $100" turret scope on the rifle, and using Berger bullets (just like he had seen on the show). This was a wood stocked 700BDL with no mods. No bedding job, no free float, no trigger mod/replacement, not even epoxy on his swivel studs for a bipod.  In Jack's mind, he had a true 800+ yard rifle and ammo. How could I argue with the experts on a cable show (that I had not watched)? Mule Deer, do you think this "Best of the West" show can influence relatively-new hunters in taking longer shots than they should be taking?
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Please reference where I told anyone not to use VLD's. I gave an opinion on why I do not use a controversial big game bullet. No, you denigrated those who use them, which is the same thing as saying that Berger users are wrong for using them. But the two quotes below sum it up for me pretty well, another example of casting aspersions on something you've never seen: Does anyone think this "Best of the West" show could possibly promote irresponsible shots, referring to relatively-new hunters that do not have any idea what long-range shooting entails? I haven't watched it, as I do not have cable/dish. Smokepole, I honestly thought you would never notice and ask (concerning viewing the show). I was recently contacted by a gentleman that had missed a few 350 yd shots at elk with his 30-06. He was hunting in Colorado, last October. We'll call him Jack. Anyway, he had just bought a used (new to him) 7mm. He told me he was planning for a 800+ shot. He had seen it done many times on the "Best of the West" cable show. Jack was putting a "less than $100" turret scope on the rifle, and using Berger bullets (just like he had seen on the show). This was a wood stocked 700BDL with no mods. No bedding job, no free float, no trigger mod/replacement, not even epoxy on his swivel studs for a bipod. In Jack's mind, he had a true 800+ yard rifle and ammo. How could I argue with the experts on a cable show (that I had not watched)? Mule Deer, do you think this "Best of the West" show can influence relatively-new hunters in taking longer shots than they should be taking?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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In Jack's mind, he had a true 800+ yard rifle and ammo. How could I argue with the experts on a cable show (that I had not watched)?
Mule Deer, do you think this "Best of the West" show can influence relatively-new hunters in taking longer shots than they should be taking? It can certainly influence the idiots and there is no way to help them. Ignorance is correctable, but there ain't no fixing stupid
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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In Jack's mind, he had a true 800+ yard rifle and ammo. How could I argue with the experts on a cable show (that I had not watched)?
Mule Deer, do you think this "Best of the West" show can influence relatively-new hunters in taking longer shots than they should be taking? It can certainly influence the idiots and there is no way to help them. Ignorance is correctable, but there ain't no fixing stupid jwp- Jack is not an idiot. This is a situation where Jack's limited experience has caused him to be over-influenced by a cable show.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Not the show`s fault or the VLD`s fault for Jack missing his elk from 350 yards. It was Jack`s fault.
Jack didn`t likely practice much longer ranged shooting if any at all. Likely didn`t chrony his loads to get a velocity estimate to calculate trajectory either.
Yep! Let`s blame that show and not Jack----ass.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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Not the show`s fault or the VLD`s fault for Jack missing his elk from 350 yards. It was Jack`s fault.
Jack didn`t likely practice much longer ranged shooting if any at all. Likely didn`t chrony his loads to get a velocity estimate to calculate trajectory either.
Yep! Let`s blame that show and not Jack----ass. bigsqueeze - Jack just recently bought the 7mm. He was not using VLD's last October. 
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not the show`s fault or the VLD`s fault for Jack missing his elk from 350 yards. It was Jack`s fault.
Jack didn`t likely practice much longer ranged shooting if any at all. Likely didn`t chrony his loads to get a velocity estimate to calculate trajectory either.
Yep! Let`s blame that show and not Jack----ass. +1... jwp-
Jack is not an idiot.
The facts speak a different story. A man hunting with X caliber then buy Y caliber because someone else has done well with it, well I would call that brilliant. In fact I'd use a 30-06 to over twice the distance that Jack missed from. A wise man once said "stupid is as stupid does"
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Jack is gonna need a lot of trigger time and a lot of work to get that 7mm ready for season, he needs to start right now. Of course most people do not know enough to know the level of dedication required to shoot stuff at long range.
Kinda like all them deer I have killed with bergers, too dumb to know they were not dead. If they figure it out and crawl outta the freezer I am blaming it on the campfire and all of the bullet experts letting us know that bergers will not really kill anything.
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Not the show`s fault or the VLD`s fault for Jack missing his elk from 350 yards. It was Jack`s fault.
Jack didn`t likely practice much longer ranged shooting if any at all. Likely didn`t chrony his loads to get a velocity estimate to calculate trajectory either.
Yep! Let`s blame that show and not Jack----ass. bigsqueeze - Jack just recently bought the 7mm. He was not using VLD's last October. .........I read in your above post that was using the VLDs.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Jack is gonna need a lot of trigger time and a lot of work to get that 7mm ready for season, he needs to start right now. Of course most people do not know enough to know the level of dedication required to shoot stuff at long range.
Kinda like all them deer I have killed with bergers, too dumb to know they were not dead. If they figure it out and crawl outta the freezer I am blaming it on the campfire and all of the bullet experts letting us know that bergers will not really kill anything.
Who said that they would not kill?
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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General statement not directed at you, I understand your position as per LR vs general use.
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Not the show`s fault or the VLD`s fault for Jack missing his elk from 350 yards. It was Jack`s fault.
Jack didn`t likely practice much longer ranged shooting if any at all. Likely didn`t chrony his loads to get a velocity estimate to calculate trajectory either.
Yep! Let`s blame that show and not Jack----ass. bigsqueeze - Jack just recently bought the 7mm. He was not using VLD's last October. .........I read in your above post that was using the VLDs. squeeze, Jack just recently bought a 7mm, turret scope, and Bergers as a result of watching the BOTW show. The missed shots last October were with a different weapon altogether (a 30-06).
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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We know and that is the proof that says Jack needs to purchase a clue
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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We know and that is the proof that says Jack needs to purchase a clue
Somehow, bigsqueeze took it that the misses last October were blamed on the VLD's. No one said that.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Not the show`s fault or the VLD`s fault for Jack missing his elk from 350 yards. It was Jack`s fault.
Jack didn`t likely practice much longer ranged shooting if any at all. Likely didn`t chrony his loads to get a velocity estimate to calculate trajectory either.
Yep! Let`s blame that show and not Jack----ass. No one blamed the VLD's or the show for the misses last October. Please read the post.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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We know and that is the proof that says Jack needs to purchase a clue
Somehow, bigsqueeze took it that the misses last October were blamed on the VLD's. No one said that. The problem is that Jack blamed the rifle and cartridge that he had and simply bought a 7mm, because that is the cartridge used on the show and then purchased a cheap scope with turrets that he has no idea if it adjusts accurately and repeatable nor does he know if the scope adjusts in MOA or IPHY and now he thinks that he is ready for 800 yard kills on game Now that is stupid. I am sorry if he is your friend, but I mean come on now don't blame the show
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Smokepole, I honestly thought you would never notice and ask (concerning viewing the show). I was recently contacted by a gentleman that had missed a few 350 yd shots at elk with his 30-06. He was hunting in Colorado, last October. We'll call him Jack. Anyway, he had just bought a used (new to him) 7mm. He told me he was planning for a 800+ shot. He had seen it done many times on the "Best of the West" cable show. Jack was putting a "less than $100" turret scope on the rifle, and using Berger bullets (just like he had seen on the show). This was a wood stocked 700BDL with no mods. No bedding job, no free float, no trigger mod/replacement, not even epoxy on his swivel studs for a bipod. In Jack's mind, he had a true 800+ yard rifle and ammo. How could I argue with the experts on a cable show (that I had not watched)? Mule Deer, do you think this "Best of the West" show can influence relatively-new hunters in taking longer shots than they should be taking? Wow. Just wow. I've never watched the show. But it's hard to believe that BOTW or any other show advocates using a "less than $100 turret scope" for 800 yard shots. Does it?? Does "the show" also advocate using a "wood stocked 700BDL with no mods...no bedding job, no free float, no trigger mod/replacement??" I seriously doubt it. But let me see if I've got this straight. You know "a guy named Jack" who watched a show on TV and somehow decided it was OK to take an off-the-shelf POS rifle (which they don't use on the show) he'd not practiced with and blaze away at an animal at 800 yards, and you're blaming it on "the show?" A show you've never seen?? Well, I know how you feel. I saw Evil Knievel jump the Grand Canyon once, on a motorcycle. I know a guy, let's call him "Jill." He bought a mo-ped and tried to jump the canyon. He didn't make it. That damn Knievel, it's all his fault.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Smokepole, I honestly thought you would never notice and ask (concerning viewing the show). I was recently contacted by a gentleman that had missed a few 350 yd shots at elk with his 30-06. He was hunting in Colorado, last October. We'll call him Jack. Anyway, he had just bought a used (new to him) 7mm. He told me he was planning for a 800+ shot. He had seen it done many times on the "Best of the West" cable show. Jack was putting a "less than $100" turret scope on the rifle, and using Berger bullets (just like he had seen on the show). This was a wood stocked 700BDL with no mods. No bedding job, no free float, no trigger mod/replacement, not even epoxy on his swivel studs for a bipod. In Jack's mind, he had a true 800+ yard rifle and ammo. How could I argue with the experts on a cable show (that I had not watched)? Mule Deer, do you think this "Best of the West" show can influence relatively-new hunters in taking longer shots than they should be taking? Wow. Just wow. I've never watched the show. But it's hard to believe that BOTW or any other show advocates using a "less than $100 turret scope" for 800 yard shots. Does it?? Does "the show" also advocate using a "wood stocked 700BDL with no mods...no bedding job, no free float, no trigger mod/replacement??" I seriously doubt it. But let me see if I've got this straight. You know "a guy named Jack" who watched a show on TV and somehow decided it was OK to take an off-the-shelf POS rifle (which they don't use on the show) he'd not practiced with and blaze away at an animal at 800 yards, and you're blaming it on "the show?" A show you've never seen?? Well, I know how you feel. I saw Evil Knievel jump the Grand Canyon once, on a motorcycle. I know a guy, let's call him "Jill." He bought a mo-ped and tried to jump the canyon. He didn't make it. That damn Knievel, it's all his fault. Smokepole- You asked how I could post a question concerning a show I had not watched. You saw contradiction in that, didn't you? Now you know. The name has been changed to protect the guilty. I have no idea what the show promotes (in equipment), hence the questions. I would certainly hope the show does not promote long-range hunting with standard factory rifles, cheap scopes, and marginal Berger bullets. The question remains....could a newbie attempt shots they have no business trying as a result of watching this BOTW show? For the record, no one has indicated Jack is not going to practice from now til next fall.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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If they are stupid they could. But if they are that inexperianced a wounded animal is not any more likely than when they missed the 300 yard shots, probably less likely.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The question remains....could a newbie attempt shots they have no business trying as a result of watching this BOTW show?
If they buy a cheapo scope and then shoot at game at 800 yards like Jack told you he was ready to now do and are as stupid as Jack, then the answer is yes
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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